To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[schindlerpiste]

What about myocarditis and its relation to the vaccine and booster shots?

Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I just heard about it. Personally, there is nothing that I can do about it, as I have already received 3 shots.

[The AD]

What about myocarditis and its relation to the vaccine and booster shots?

Also a risk from actually contracting Covid:

During March 2020–January 2021, patients with COVID-19 had nearly 16 times the risk for myocarditis compared with patients who did not have COVID-19, and risk varied by sex and age.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm

[old goat]

Any scientists want to comment on the validity of this study or it's authors?

Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1...rXqiT68YdfYeAU

While the first author sounds a little sketchy, this is a peer reviewed published study in a top tier medical journal and should be taken seriously.

I can't find anything in Pubmed about the PULS (not PLUS) score or anything on Google from a non-commercial source. There has been a lot of talk over the years about the role of inflammation in coronary artery disease and other vascular disease but AFAIK nothing has been nailed down. If in fact the PULS score is a good predictor it may or may not be valid for presumably short term inflammation produced by a vaccination. It would be interesting to know what happens to the PULS score after other vaccinations. The author's conclusion that increased endothelial (lining of heart and blood vessels) inflammation could explain blood clots and myocarditis after vaccination is not unreasonable, but these reactions are still rare. Whether there is any longer term implication for heart disease is unknown and would seem to be worthy of study.

It would be interesting to see if there are any published comments or an editorial included in the journal issue, and if the authors say anything about the PULS score after other vaccines. Maybe one of our non retired scientists have access to the full text.

[riser4]

Any doubts about vaccination status?
Still a pandemic of the unvaccinated
Attachment 393530
Just a small sample


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Fake news. Crisis actors.





























JK.

[SumJongGuy]

Today in COVID world... Realized leaving Sam's Club that I never put my mask on when shopping there for half an hour. Reached up to remove the mask and realized it was still in my pocked. Asked wife who was with me why she didn't tell me I forgot my mask and we both kinda laughed.. nobody said anything and masks are still required indoors here..

Then a little later wife totally gave out and went to the car before we could checkout at the last stop.. exactly 24 hours after she got her booster yesterday. She's done for the day at 3pm..

[Mofro261]

While the first author sounds a little sketchy, this is a peer reviewed published study in a top tier medical journal and should be taken seriously.

I can't find anything in Pubmed about the PULS (not PLUS) score or anything on Google from a non-commercial source. There has been a lot of talk over the years about the role of inflammation in coronary artery disease and other vascular disease but AFAIK nothing has been nailed down. If in fact the PULS score is a good predictor it may or may not be valid for presumably short term inflammation produced by a vaccination. It would be interesting to know what happens to the PULS score after other vaccinations. The author's conclusion that increased endothelial (lining of heart and blood vessels) inflammation could explain blood clots and myocarditis after vaccination is not unreasonable, but these reactions are still rare. Whether there is any longer term implication for heart disease is unknown and would seem to be worthy of study.

It would be interesting to see if there are any published comments or an editorial included in the journal issue, and if the authors say anything about the PULS score after other vaccines. Maybe one of our non retired scientists have access to the full text.

Not peer reviewed- it's a published abstract from an online symposium for a presentation, there is no associated publication.



Single author? Is suspect for any study like this.

[KQ]

What about myocarditis and its relation to the vaccine and booster shots?

Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I just heard about it. Personally, there is nothing that I can do about it, as I have already received 3 shots.

Seems to be an issue for young men. Has to do with testosterone levels.


The Novel Platform of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines and Myocarditis: Clues into the Potential Underlying Mechanism



Although rare, the identified association can be serious as shown by the finding that a large proportion of cases did not recover and by the (albeit few) fatalities. The association of myocarditis with male sex and younger age could be attributed to sex hormones which may account for a more intense inflammatory response. As suggested by experimental studies on myocarditis in mice, testosterone may be implicated in the inhibition of anti-inflammatory cells and the stimulation of immune responses mediated by Th1-lymphocytes [3].

[Tri-Ungulate]

It's not delivered by volume, it's by number of mRNA molecules and by concentration of the formulation:

100ug in a .5ml injection, = 200ug/ml.

30 ug in a 0.3ml injection = 100ug/ml.

The ug number represents the number of mRNA molecules in the dosage( divide ug number by mRNA molecular weight) is more important than the volume of the dose, which is a function of the concentration of the formulation.

Regardless, the difference of a 50 ug booster vs a 30 ug booster isn't as stark as a 30 vs 100ug regimen, when assessing induction of neutralizing ab titers and also AEs.

Perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention, but from what little I know, the relative response rates from the mix-and-match studies is entirely based on surrogate markers, primarily B-cell response re: measurable antibody tirtres, completely ignoring T-cell response or (more importantly) actual clinical outcomes.

And even then, it seems they're talking about relative increases in titres rather than absolute increments, and since we don't know that represents a "threshold" level for protection, we really don't know which mix-and-match combo is actually "better" IRL.

In essence, the scatter plots I recall seeing don't relate the quantifiable differences with actual protection, just a measurable quanta that may or may not represent a meaningful clinical differential.

It's like XXX-ers take - people who are getting worked up about which mix-and-match combo to get are just doing the bougie Starbucks triple latte with oat milk versus chai latte with almond milk and a shot of espresso on the side.

We're paralyzed or over-reliant on choices when the point is to get a booster, not worry about what kind.

But of course, this is a community that obsesses over mounting a binder at -1 cm vs -1.5 cm.

[KQ]

Perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention, but from what little I know, the relative response rates from the mix-and-match studies is entirely based on surrogate markers, primarily B-cell response re: measurable antibody tirtres, completely ignoring T-cell response or (more importantly) actual clinical outcomes.

And even then, it seems they're talking about relative increases in titres rather than absolute increments, and since we don't know that represents a "threshold" level for protection, we really don't know which mix-and-match combo is actually "better" IRL.

In essence, the scatter plots I recall seeing don't relate the quantifiable differences with actual protection, just a measurable quanta that may or may not represent a meaningful clinical differential.

It's like XXX-ers take - people who are getting worked up about which mix-and-match combo to get are just doing the bougie Starbucks triple latte with oat milk versus chai latte with almond milk and a shot of espresso on the side.

We're paralyzed or over-reliant on choices when the point is to get a booster, not worry about what kind.

But of course, this is a community that obsesses over mounting a binder at -1 cm vs -1.5 cm.

Wasn't the original thought less about mixing & matching any and all but more about Pfizer people switching hoping to reap the benefit of greater efficacy that Moderna seemed to possess?

[Tri-Ungulate]

Right, KQ.

But the "better efficacy" argument of switching from Pfizer to ModeRNA is (at least to my knowledge) based on a fairly small study using relative increase in antibody titre as its endpoint. The study makes no claims as to whether the booster brand switch is actually more effective in real life, at least as far as clinical outcomes.

Which is understandable, as being able to detect a meaningful difference would almost certainly require much larger numbers of enrolled patients, and be difficult to interpret for a number of reasons, most of which revolve around finding/defining an adequate "control" population, especially if the study is retrospective in nature.

I mean, the study could be done, but not quickly or easily. Designing meaningful prospective randomized controlled studies can be really difficult, at least in my experience.

[jono]

I had thought it was so unlikely that mixing the mRNAs would matter that I totally missed that Liv2ski may have actually been dithering about that. I'll be over here re-calibrating my intuition about other people's intuition now.

Isn't the major argument for sticking with one more public health than private? Like help the CDC have less variables to track or reflect on later, maybe worst case reduce the chance of some rare unknown affecting everyone?

[old goat]

Not peer reviewed- it's a published abstract from an online symposium for a presentation, there is no associated publication.



Single author? Is suspect for any study like this.

I didn't appreciate that. Thanks for pointing it out. And yeah, single author is definitely suspect. We don't have supplements and online symposia and other such silliness in surgery, (although we have papers presented at meetings and then published that don't meet the same standards as papers submitted to the journal for publication. I got a couple of otherwise poor quality papers published that way and got to get to have free vacations in Colorado Springs at the Broadmoor and on Marco Island Florida.)

[skifishbum]

The story was posted in the FB sewer on the "Unmask Our Kids" page.

Attachment 393532

have you ever that about not being a pawn in zuckerbitches sad game?

[wooley12]

Yep. I've thought about that. I'd rather that I could look away from this train wreck while it's happening. But I won't.

[SumJongGuy]

Got a call from the health department yesterday "Contact Tracing" on caller ID. They were asking about my daughter and wanted to know if I would book an appointment to get her vaccinated now that kids 5-12 are approved. I was like WTF?? she's almost 18 and was vaccinated getting her 2nd dose last April. Then they asked if I could give them the dates and batch numbers. I said she has her card with her at school. So they ask where was she vaxxed? I told them at YOUR clinic held at a local public school last February and April. Part of me wonders if it was actually someone phishing for valid dates and batch numbers to fake vaccine cards. I told them to look it up on their end and hung up.

[Percy Rideout]

Got a call from the health department yesterday "Contact Tracing" on caller ID. They were asking about my daughter and wanted to know if I would book an appointment to get her vaccinated now that kids 5-12 are approved. I was like WTF?? she's almost 18 and was vaccinated getting her 2nd dose last April. Then they asked if I could give them the dates and batch numbers. I said she has her card with her at school. So they ask where was she vaxxed? I told them at YOUR clinic held at a local public school last February and April. Part of me wonders if it was actually someone phishing for valid dates and batch numbers to fake vaccine cards. I told them to look it up on their end and hung up.

sounds well organized.

[wooley12]

sounds well organized.

You must be new here. New to the planet I mean.

[Ted Striker]

But of course, this is a community that obsesses over mounting a binder at -1 cm vs -1.5 cm.

And god forbid anyone mounts on the line!

[SumJongGuy]

Jab your own fucking booster shot...

[jono]

Got a call from the health department yesterday "Contact Tracing" on caller ID. They were asking about my daughter and wanted to know if I would book an appointment to get her vaccinated now that kids 5-12 are approved. I was like WTF?? she's almost 18 and was vaccinated getting her 2nd dose last April. Then they asked if I could give them the dates and batch numbers. I said she has her card with her at school. So they ask where was she vaxxed? I told them at YOUR clinic held at a local public school last February and April. Part of me wonders if it was actually someone phishing for valid dates and batch numbers to fake vaccine cards. I told them to look it up on their end and hung up.

If that's not a phishing scam yet, it will be soon. Anyone who gives all that info to someone that called their phone is probably willing to hand over a SSN by the end of the call, too. It would be interesting to hear what they say if you call your local health department and ask them if the call was legit.

[wooley12]

That's what I'd do. But I've been called a man of action by my friends.

[SumJongGuy]

If that's not a phishing scam yet, it will be soon. Anyone who gives all that info to someone that called their phone is probably willing to hand over a SSN by the end of the call, too. It would be interesting to hear what they say if you call your local health department and ask them if the call was legit.

It came from a number (spoofed?) that was a legit number I dealt with contact tracers over when wife and I had COVID last December. That's the only reason I even answered it. I thought it could be a follow up call from them.

[old goat]

No need to phish to get batch numbers. I'm sure they're easily available on the dark web, and maybe the bright web.

[SumJongGuy]

It would be interesting to hear what they say if you call your local health department and ask them if the call was legit.

That's what I'd do. But I've been called a man of action by my friends.

Have you folks tried to call them and get a human on the phone? I have when returning previous contact tracing calls. You'll have more luck getting a human on the line to cancel your cable service.. We've got our cards, properly filled out. Anyone who really needs to validate I'll happily share that documentation in person..

[LongShortLong]

Somebody upthread asked why CDC and other US agencies don't count infection derived immunity, requiring vaccine immunity instead.

Because dumdums would have Covid parties.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fools-tho...124814714.html