To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[KQ]

Yeah, no.

Anaphylaxis is not what you experienced. As many have mentioned, anaphylaxis is immediately following exposure to the offending agent, pretty much by definition, as an acute IgE mediated event. Yeah maybe rarely up to ~6H after exposure, but not something that shows up days after exposure (unless you're talking biphasic which is even rarer, requires prior treatment, and is beyond the scope of an interwebz conversation). Anaphylaxis occurs usually within the first 15' or so, which is the basis of the "15 minute observation" rule.

Sure, you may have experienced some paradoxical reaction to the vaccine, it may even have been allergic/immunologic, but as a TRG dentist, I'm gonna bet it ain't anaphylaxis.

Maybe he got stung by a bee?

[bodywhomper]

Epipen and Benadryl

[abraham]

My first shot was easy, didn't really notice any issues.

Second shot took about an hour or two then I had really tight shoulders and arms for ~6 hours. Couldn't tell if it was the shot or stress from dealing with several frustrating work calls. I woke up the next morning sore and stiff and that pretty much carried through the whole day. Then I skied my legs off for 3 days without any issues.

[bennymac]

don't use an epi pen unless you are having anaphylaxis - unless you want to put your heart through a mini stress test unnecessarily. I

f youdo need to use an epi pen that is a temporary measure to buy you time to get to your closest ER - whatever gave you anaphylaxis is likely still in your system and it might just suck when that epi pen wears off and you start having the anaphylaxis again - now with an empty epi pen.

Yes to benadryl for non-anaphyactic allergic reactions - although it may make you drowsy / slow your reaction speed / make you fall if you're old.

An even bigger yes to going to see your doctor for allergy advice vs us padded room dentists

[Danno]

My first shot was easy, didn't really notice any issues.

Second shot took about an hour or two then I had really tight shoulders and arms for ~6 hours. Couldn't tell if it was the shot or stress from dealing with several frustrating work calls. I woke up the next morning sore and stiff and that pretty much carried through the whole day. Then I skied my legs off for 3 days without any issues.

Without any issues except for the fact that you no longer have legs.

[altasnob]

Pretty amazing vaccination rate differences within a single county. Below is rate in King County. Wealthy, white places like Mercer Island (home of deceased Paul Allen) are at 86.5%. Just a few miles south in the Kent, Auburn, Federal Way Zone, which has the largest minority and lowest income population in the county, the rate is in the 40%. Vaccination rate in wanna be hick areas is also low.



https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...-and-east-lag/

[abraham]

Without any issues except for the fact that you no longer have legs.

I got better.

[GoldMember]

Pretty amazing vaccination rate differences within a single county. Below is rate in King County. Wealthy, white places like Mercer Island (home of deceased Paul Allen) are at 86.5%. Just a few miles south in the Kent, Auburn, Federal Way Zone, which has the largest minority and lowest income population in the county, the rate is in the 40%. Vaccination rate in wanna be hick areas is also low.



https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...-and-east-lag/

What's with the downtown Seattle core, Elliot Bay area? 45%?? I would have thought this would be one of the highest areas. Younger population? More homeless not yet vaxxed? That surprises me.

[Lone Star]

It's easy to get worked up and wish death on antivaxxers but then it actually happens and it is totally heartbreaking and unsatisfying.

Quoting this for the mag who I discussed this with on FB

[gretch6364]

kids (13 yr old) now booked for first Pfizer shot this weekend! Seattle mags, check out allegro pediatric.

Not 100% sure how I feel on this one (not that anyone cares). I really hope they don't start requiring it for kids to attend school, etc. Obviously 13 is a lot older then my kids, but I see no reason to get my 5 and 3 yo the vaccine. The survival rate for people under 24 is insanely high and a rushed vaccine in an undeveloped child just feels risky.

Again...not an anti-vaxxer...kids have all their normal shots, wife and I are vaccinated. However, they keep pushing it to younger and younger kids before we have vaccinated sufficient adults. Personal choice for Chaka obviously and not saying one way is wrong or right. Just not so sure.

[old goat]

[

Not 100% sure how I feel on this one (not that anyone cares). I really hope they don't start requiring it for kids to attend school, etc. Obviously 13 is a lot older then my kids, but I see no reason to get my 5 and 3 yo the vaccine. The survival rate for people under 24 is insanely high and a rushed vaccine in an undeveloped child just feels risky.

Again...not an anti-vaxxer...kids have all their normal shots, wife and I are vaccinated. However, they keep pushing it to younger and younger kids before we have vaccinated sufficient adults. Personal choice for Chaka obviously and not saying one way is wrong or right. Just not so sure.

kids hardly ever die from measles, mumps, etc etc. The reason kids should eventually be required to be vaccinated for Covid in order to go to school is the same reason they should have their other shots--because KIDS CAN SPREAD IT TO PEOPLE MORE LIKELY TO DIE. THE POINT OF VACCINATION IS NOT JUST TO PROTECT THE RECIPIENT BUT TO PROTECT THE COMMUNITY AND STOP THE SPREAD OF THE VIRUS SO WE CAN GO BACK TO LIVING OUR LIVES.

Sorry for the caps but you seem to have it the first 270 times it's been posted in this thread. (I counted.)

[GoldMember]

Not 100% sure how I feel on this one (not that anyone cares). I really hope they don't start requiring it for kids to attend school, etc. Obviously 13 is a lot older then my kids, but I see no reason to get my 5 and 3 yo the vaccine. The survival rate for people under 24 is insanely high and a rushed vaccine in an undeveloped child just feels risky.

Again...not an anti-vaxxer...kids have all their normal shots, wife and I are vaccinated. However, they keep pushing it to younger and younger kids before we have vaccinated sufficient adults. Personal choice for Chaka obviously and not saying one way is wrong or right. Just not so sure.

In my home county, in 0-9 years old, we've had 2061 cases out of about 44,000 total cases. Of the 2061, zero deaths. In the 10-19 years old, 4500 cases, 3 deaths and 20-29 year old, 8700 cases, 2 deaths. Hard to guess what the long-term effects of catching the virus might be for little kids but death certainly doesn't seem to be a real threat. I personally wouldn't get the shot for young kids but I'm certainly not advising anyone what to do.

ETA: OG is probably going to fry me for this answer but the kids haven't been the problem. That's why elementary schools have been open longer than other schools and is seems they don't tend to spread it, either so not sure I agree with his answer.

[gretch6364]

Yeah...not advising any one what to do either. GOAT...all of the other vaccines given to children have FULL FDA approval. Not just emergency use....if you go back and read the thread, there are a couple places that links to the difference was posted. I counted.

[Danno]

As soon as my 10 year old is eligible, she will get the shot.

[dunfree]

No Gretch, you are just being your dumbfuck MAGA self gargling all that Fox shit.

[dunfree]

[



kids hardly ever die from measles, mumps, etc etc. The reason kids should eventually be required to be vaccinated for Covid in order to go to school is the same reason they should have their other shots--because KIDS CAN SPREAD IT TO PEOPLE MORE LIKELY TO DIE. THE POINT OF VACCINATION IS NOT JUST TO PROTECT THE RECIPIENT BUT TO PROTECT THE COMMUNITY AND STOP THE SPREAD OF THE VIRUS SO WE CAN GO BACK TO LIVING OUR LIVES.

Sorry for the caps but you seem to have it the first 270 times it's been posted in this thread. (I counted.)

gretch is too fucking stupid and entitled to understand, but this is truth.

[XXX-er]

[



kids hardly ever die from measles, mumps, etc etc. The reason kids should eventually be required to be vaccinated for Covid in order to go to school is the same reason they should have their other shots--because KIDS CAN SPREAD IT TO PEOPLE MORE LIKELY TO DIE. THE POINT OF VACCINATION IS NOT JUST TO PROTECT THE RECIPIENT BUT TO PROTECT THE COMMUNITY AND STOP THE SPREAD OF THE VIRUS SO WE CAN GO BACK TO LIVING OUR LIVES.

Sorry for the caps but you seem to have it the first 270 times it's been posted in this thread. (I counted.)

fuck that ^^ sounds un-American

[alpinevibes]

What's with the downtown Seattle core, Elliot Bay area? 45%?? I would have thought this would be one of the highest areas. Younger population? More homeless not yet vaxxed? That surprises me.

That pink zone, with the 45% overlay, is actually south of downtown: Sodo/Duwamish. Mostly industrial and warehouses, large retail, offices, etc. Census data (2010) puts only about 2,300 people (drop from 2,600 in 2000) living there. Median age was around 41, 49% white - I would guess low vaccine uptake mirrors other areas based on race, income, etc.

[GoldMember]

That pink zone, with the 45% overlay, is actually south of downtown: Sodo/Duwamish. Mostly industrial and warehouses, large retail, offices, etc. Census data (2010) puts only about 2,300 people (drop from 2,600 in 2000) living there. Median age was around 41, 49% white - I would guess low vaccine uptake mirrors other areas based on race, income, etc.

Got it.

[Buster Highmen]

ETA: OG is probably going to fry me for this answer but the kids haven't been the problem. That's why elementary schools have been open longer than other schools and is seems they don't tend to spread it, either so not sure I agree with his answer.

What's the rationale on the theory that kids don't spread it?

Is there any data to support that?

I'd assumed that school openings have been more of a political issue, not based on the dynamics of covid spread.

[MontuckyFried]

kids hardly ever die from measles, mumps, etc etc.

Yeah, except the mortality rate for children for measles and mumps is WAAAAAAY freaking higher than it is with COVID. Like with mumps, it's the 0-3 year old demo that is most likely to die from it. Covid's exactly the opposite. Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't most vaccinations required for children been for diseases that have the greatest chance of harming said children? Never thought it was so much about protecting the adults but rather the student population. The list of recommended vaccines for children these days is pretty hudge compared to when we were kids, but which other vaccines besides the COVID shot are uniquely meant to protect parents/grandparents rather than the students themselves? Seems this one's kind of unique in that regard.

Not telling anybody what is right or wrong for their families, but personally I'd like to see some more long term studies on the shots and children before making that decision for mine. Does it make a difference about their personal vaccination histories? Personal histories with various health issues? Previous exposures or infections with COVID? Adverse reactions per age/sex/weight groups. Things we may want to look into more hardcore before deciding to use it on our 5 year olds, ya know? I know everyone's anxious as hell to get us all immune so we can get on with our lives. I get that. I won't fault anyone for wanting to go for it. I just think we should proceed with more caution before jumping into the deep end in regard to small children.

[GoldMember]

What's the rationale on the theory that kids don't spread it?

Is there any data to support that?

I'd assumed that school openings have been more of a political issue, not based on the dynamics of covid spread.

Clearly, the answer isn't clear. However, it seems the evidence leans toward lesser transmission and much less impact for small children. Still should utilize common sense and practice masking, social distancing, isolation from the most fragile people and the things that are blatantly obvious. But I would be reluctant to get a 3 y.o. and 5 y.o vaxxed at this time. But that's me and, as noted, I'm not advising anyone else of anything in this regard.

"Limited evidence suggests that transmission by preadolescent children occurs but is uncommon in educational or child care settings, particularly if the class size is small, other public health measures are strictly followed, and community transmission is low [15,59,68,71,81,89-100], although this finding is inconsistent [101]. In contrast, several studies have documented transmission by adolescents in high school or secondary school [71-73], but this finding is also inconsistent [91]."

https://www.uptodate.com/contents/co...is-in-children

[PNWbrit]

Whose turn is it to tell Austin he's wrong?

[SorryBro]

Not 100% sure how I feel on this one (not that anyone cares). I really hope they don't start requiring it for kids to attend school, etc. Obviously 13 is a lot older then my kids, but I see no reason to get my 5 and 3 yo the vaccine. The survival rate for people under 24 is insanely high and a rushed vaccine in an undeveloped child just feels risky...

I hope they do require this vaccine for kids to attend school. Put your feelings aside and listen to scientists and doctors. 99.99% of any permanent side affects of vaccines show up within 6 weeks of dose. EUA vs. full approval is about time. Do you understand one of the reasons the vaccine was able to be developed so quickly was companies were given a blank check for the work? We would be hearing about major side affects by now if there were any. 260 million does of vaccine administered in US and no scientific evidence of permanent side affects.

Also, I'll quote Old Goat: "KIDS CAN SPREAD IT TO PEOPLE MORE LIKELY TO DIE. THE POINT OF VACCINATION IS NOT JUST TO PROTECT THE RECIPIENT BUT TO PROTECT THE COMMUNITY AND STOP THE SPREAD OF THE VIRUS SO WE CAN GO BACK TO LIVING OUR LIVES."
My neighbor has lung cancer and his doctor advised him against the vaccine for now. I don't want a neighborhood kid to accidentally kill one of the best human beings I know.

Don't want your kids vaccinated? That's your choice. Send them to the private school that will fire teachers who get the vaccine. You'll fit right in...

[concretejungle]

Whose turn is it to tell Austin he's wrong?

There's still people who read his posts in the Covid threads?