To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

**Skidog** · 08-31-2021, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

What state has social security number on its driver's license? Skidog says that's the case, but it sounds off to me.

i thought PA, but I could be mistaken.
Use of the SSN in State drivers license systems is already authorized by Federal law, and 29 States currently use the SSN as the drivers license number or show it on the license. The 1996 immigration reform provision on improved identification-related documents requires the SSN to be included on State drivers licenses by the year 2000. Thus, the drivers license and Social Security card can both be used to verify the SSN.

https://www.ssa.gov/history/reports/ssnreportc6.html

Sorry folks...looks like it changed...used to be though
Section 7214 of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 [42 USC 405(c)(2)(C)(vi)(II)] explicitly prohibits printing Social Security numbers on identification documents issued by motor vehicle agencies, including driver licenses and vehicle registrations.[1][2]

**JimmyCarter** · 08-31-2021, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by teledad

Good study, thanks for posting. Cheat code: BNT162b2 = Pfizer, ChAdOx1 = AstraZeneca.

So is this saying Pfizer shot > previous infection > AZ shot?

**jono** · 08-31-2021, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by JimmyCarter

So is this saying Pfizer shot > previous infection > AZ shot?

Roughly kinda? Scanning through the linked paper it looked like there were exceptions, like AZ may build immunity with time while Pfizer falls off and there were a few measurements where AZ outperformed prior infection. And maybe Moderna is best, but not a lot of data yet?

**Buster Highmen** · 08-31-2021, 01:49 PM

I will _not_ give out my SSN and I believe that there are federal laws that preclude certain private businesses from requiring it.
So I get that.

I weight the social benefits.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 08-31-2021, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Skidog

I agree with most of these listed here..

https://www.aclu.org/other/surveilla...usapatriot-act

Oh , I know what the Patriot Act is, I just want to know if it made you less free? For the most part nothing changed for anyone that I know. Part of the problem is what is “freedom”?

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**Buster Highmen** · 08-31-2021, 01:58 PM

Ivarmectin?

**MultiVerse** · 08-31-2021, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by JimmyCarter

So is this saying Pfizer shot > previous infection > AZ shot?

The ordering is correct for all positive PCR tests, including low viral burden, but both vaccines performed better than natural infection against a higher viral burden.

In cases of high viral burden both vaccines had fewer symptoms, although AZ was slightly worse WRT symptoms when the viral burden was low.

**Bunion 2020** · 08-31-2021, 02:06 PM

You want to participate in the benefits of society, well there’s some responsibilities associated in order to do so.

That sentence cannot be repeated enough.

**altasnob** · 08-31-2021, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by MultiVerse

COVID, for example, killed more Americans in a year and half than AIDS did in the last 40 years. And yet 37 states still have laws that criminalize or control behaviors over potentially exposing another person to HIV. The HIV laws are not limited to gays, sex workers, and drug addicts but also include things like blood donations and spitting.

Every state in the nation has a law on the books that could be used to prosecute someone who intentionally/recklessly exposes another person to AIDS, COVID, whatever other communicable disease. Every state has Reckless Endangerment (recklessly engages in conduct that creates a substantial risk of death or serious physical injury to another person) and regular Assault might work (an act done with intent to inflict bodily injury upon another, tending but failing to accomplish it and accompanied with the apparent present ability to inflict the bodily injury. It is not necessary that bodily injury be inflicted. An assault is also an act done with the intent to create in another apprehension and fear of bodily injury, and which in fact creates in another a reasonable apprehension and imminent fear of bodily injury even though the actor did not actually intend to inflict bodily injury.)

**altasnob** · 08-31-2021, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

What state has social security number on its driver's license?

I don't know of any. Most states allow illegal immigrants to have driver's license (makes sense to encourage them to legally drive). They don't have SS numbers. Also, the millions of legal permanent residents don't have SS numbers either.

**Flounder** · 08-31-2021, 02:18 PM

Just got my Vt enhanced drivers license in the mail today. No social security number.

Piece of shit anti vaxxers aren’t content with just avoiding the shots themselves but they have to shut down the mobile vaccine sites being sent out to help the poor that Skidog so desperately cares for.

https://news.yahoo.com/anti-vaxxers-...172909779.html

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 08-31-2021, 02:21 PM

I’m not sure, but I don’t think skidog really cares about the poor.

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**MultiVerse** · 08-31-2021, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by altasnob

Every state in the nation has a law on the books that could be used to prosecute someone who intentionally/recklessly exposes another person to AIDS, COVID, whatever other communicable disease.

"Could be used" reads like a cop out. Actual transmission or intent to transmit HIV is not usually required under existing laws, with many of the laws emphasizing potential exposure including low-risk behavior, does the same apply to Covid or whatever?

The sentences can be harsh too. 13 states have maximum sentence lengths of more than 10 years, and some states up to life, even though people with HIV might have taken measures to prevent transmission.

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/policies/law...ation-ehe.html

It seems like even if everyone conceded the points in your various arguments, vaccine mandates rank fairly low on the list of laws burdening minority, homeless, and other low status communities. By all means express concern for the homeless, but at least recognize why the argument when placed in a larger context comes across as disingenuous.

FWIW, my own position is any mandates or other interventions should be voluntary. At the same time, it should be recognized a lot of these measures are unenforced and as a result are de facto voluntary.

**dunfree** · 08-31-2021, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

What state has social security number on its driver's license? Skidog says that's the case, but it sounds off to me.

some like Virginia did 30+ years ago.

**twat** · 08-31-2021, 02:29 PM

@skidog
If i travel to the usa and somebody asks me at the boarder for my vaxxcard i will tell him my freedom is reduced with this action.

Or is it just for you going to a restaurant?

**Adolf Allerbush** · 08-31-2021, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by nordekette

@skidog
If i travel to the usa and somebody asks me at the boarder for my vaxxcard i will tell him my freedom is reduced with this action.

Or is it just for you going to a restaurant?

Good question.

Let's say Skidog and Altasnob have their way and private businesses are not allowed to require proof of vaccination status to enter exclusively because it would be a breach of people's privacy, wouldn't that also mean that a bar or a restaurant or a gocart rental (prove your age), or any other number of businesses couldn't require ID?

**skaredshtles** · 08-31-2021, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Skidog

<snip> some states even your Social...

I'm pretty sure this is not true... but maybe I'm wrong?

I mean - this is from the internet, so perhaps it's wrong:

https://www.quora.com/Which-states-h...rivers-license

**altasnob** · 08-31-2021, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by MultiVerse

It seems like even if everyone conceded the points in your various arguments, vaccine mandates rank fairly low on the list of laws burdening minority, homeless, and other low status communities.

I haven't argued against vaccine mandates, just vaccine IDs. Regarding the vaccine IDs, this isn't a conservative vs. liberal issue. The ACLU has concerns about vaccine IDs. What entity in the US is more liberal than the ACLU?

What it really boils down to is trying to get people who are reluctant to get the vaccine, to get the vaccine. Right now, we have vaccine ID laws in places like San Francisco, where if the vaccine was approved for kids under 12 they would probably have the 90% vaxed to reach herd immunity. So vaccine ID in San Francisco is essentially superfluous. As Benny would say, it's just something to "soothe the blue people." We have to ask ourselves how to get people in rural Mississippi vaxed, not Seattle, Boulder, ect. I have my doubts that vaccine IDs are the way to do that.

Personally, rather than vaccine IDs, I rather Biden and Congress just pass a law requiring everyone in the US get vaccinated per Jacobson v. Massachusetts. In that case, the punishment for not getting vaxed was a $150 fine (in today's dollars). Throw the law immediately in front of the Supreme Court. And if they approve it, no one can bitch about it and claim any legal/constitutional right (a Trump court allowed it).

**californiagrown** · 08-31-2021, 03:00 PM

We should really have someone walking around with one of those Russian KGB umbrellas meant to inject poison, just sticking people with vaccine instead. I mean, it can't be THAT tough to get close to some of the anti-vaxxer talking heads and then just stick them with a vaccine dose? I bet they lose viewership if that happens because now they are... gasp... vaxed!!

**Kinnikinnick** · 08-31-2021, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by altasnob

I haven't argued against vaccine mandates, just vaccine IDs. Regarding the vaccine IDs, this isn't a conservative vs. liberal issue. The ACLU has concerns about vaccine IDs. What entity in the US is more liberal than the ACLU?

What it really boils down to is trying to get people who are reluctant to get the vaccine, to get the vaccine. Right now, we have vaccine ID laws in places like San Francisco, where if the vaccine was approved for kids under 12 they would probably have the 90% vaxed to reach herd immunity. So vaccine ID in San Francisco is essentially superfluous. As Benny would say, it's just something to "soothe the blue people." We have to ask ourselves how to get people in rural Mississippi vaxed, not Seattle, Boulder, ect. I have my doubts that vaccine IDs are the way to do that.

Personally, rather than vaccine IDs, I rather Biden and Congress just pass a law requiring everyone in the US get vaccinated per Jacobson v. Massachusetts. In that case, the punishment for not getting vaxed was a $150 fine (in today's dollars). Throw the law immediately in front of the Supreme Court. And if they approve it, no one can bitch about it and claim any legal/constitutional right (a Trump court allowed it).

Thats a hilarious logic circle you made.

How would you propose that this vax law be enforced? In other words, you’re going to need a vax ID to confirm peoples status. All that you are proposing is codifying the same requirement that you are arguing against.

So counselor, you’re back where you started.

Do actually charge clients for this sort of brilliant logic?

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**Skidog** · 08-31-2021, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I’m not sure, but I don’t think skidog really cares about the poor.

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Yeah you're totally right, along with apparently 95% of the folks posting here. They don't matter, they are a small percentage, they don't go to restaurants, they can just get the vax.

#whiteprivilege

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**Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo** · 08-31-2021, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by dunfree

some like Virginia did 30+ years ago.

I'm just here to confirm this. When I received my first VA drivers license in '96 they still put your SS# on them. By the time I had to renew again in college I believe they had stopped already.

**Skidog** · 08-31-2021, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by dunfree

some like Virginia did 30+ years ago.

Many up until about 2004. Then anyone in those states that had one held it for years. I corrected myself. It did used to be there in many states, but no longer allowed. A DL# is a pretty identifying piece of info.

And for the record I ain't been carded in a bar or for booze in 20 years.

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**Skidog** · 08-31-2021, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by altasnob

I haven't argued against vaccine mandates, just vaccine IDs. Regarding the vaccine IDs, this isn't a conservative vs. liberal issue. The ACLU has concerns about vaccine IDs. What entity in the US is more liberal than the ACLU?

What it really boils down to is trying to get people who are reluctant to get the vaccine, to get the vaccine. Right now, we have vaccine ID laws in places like San Francisco, where if the vaccine was approved for kids under 12 they would probably have the 90% vaxed to reach herd immunity. So vaccine ID in San Francisco is essentially superfluous. As Benny would say, it's just something to "soothe the blue people." We have to ask ourselves how to get people in rural Mississippi vaxed, not Seattle, Boulder, ect. I have my doubts that vaccine IDs are the way to do that.

Personally, rather than vaccine IDs, I rather Biden and Congress just pass a law requiring everyone in the US get vaccinated per Jacobson v. Massachusetts. In that case, the punishment for not getting vaxed was a $150 fine (in today's dollars). Throw the law immediately in front of the Supreme Court. And if they approve it, no one can bitch about it and claim any legal/constitutional right (a Trump court allowed it).

They don't want to hear it...screw the ACLU, they all want us to die cause they have issues with vax cards too.

Really it's just the crazy Trumptards and antivaxxers.

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**SumJongGuy** · 08-31-2021, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by californiagrown

We should really have someone walking around with one of those Russian KGB umbrellas meant to inject poison, just sticking people with vaccine instead. I mean, it can't be THAT tough to get close to some of the anti-vaxxer talking heads and then just stick them with a vaccine dose? I bet they lose viewership if that happens because now they are... gasp... vaxed!!

Deliver it to everyone via chemtrails.. I'm good with getting an extra dose to get those fools in the process..