To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

**Mofro261** · 01-21-2021, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Some good news: A study from Israel suggests 98% have sterilizing immunity after receivng the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. Meaning they will most likely not become carriers and can't infect other people. Those who are given the vaccine develop 6-20 times more antibodies than patients who recovered from the disease.

https://www.ynetnews.com/health_scie...icle/H1jaK7mkd

This is what I've been trying to get across- prime/boost vaccination gives a helluva better immune response than natural infection, with the only real correlate of sterilizing immunity being high levels of (polyclonal, ie against multiple epitopes) neutralizing antibodies. The mutations popping up are certainly something to watch for but so far all indications suggest vaccine immunity is still present at a significant level to the UK, S.African, etc mutations.

**Falcon3** · 01-21-2021, 10:46 AM

If these vaccines have sterilizing side effects, it sounds a lot better than going through what the vasectomy thread describes. /s

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**skaredshtles** · 01-21-2021, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

<snip>
Oh yeah?! Shows how little you know me and just want to project. I've said it before. I would heartily welcome socialized health care if only we had the balls to institute metabo laws (ie fat tax) like they have in Japan. BRING IT!!! Hint: We don't. We've caved to the PC police who promote the "body positive" bullshit.

Oh, please. Enlighten us with the federal candidates that you have voted for over the past 10 years that supported socialized healthcare...

**old goat** · 01-21-2021, 11:20 AM

For all the fuckups with vaccine distribution and administration at the Federal and some state levels (CA I'm talking about you) we shouldn't forget that it has been predicted for a long time that manufacturing enough vaccine would be a very difficult challenge--some states have run out and have had to cancel vaccine appointments--and that giving enough vaccine was an enormous logistical challenge. There were different predictions but I think it was Osterholm who thought it would take all year. And even that might be ambitious, depending on what happens with vaccines currently in trial.
Kind of like the way it was predicted that it would take several days at least to count all the votes. But people still got upset it was taking so long.

**thedude2340** · 01-21-2021, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

True, but you don't think we should've tried again during a pandemic? If ever there was a time to push that narrative, this was it. Too bad Trump's favorite fine dining establishment was McDonalds, so that didn't exactly help anything.

Imposibru. Have you not seen the videos of Japanese subways packed as ever? They're not magically "not getting and spreading covid-19". They're a great case to be made that their bodies are fighting it better than ours are.

You're 100% correct. There is no avoiding contracting the virus because of good diet and exercise. HOWEVER, you ARE a helluva lot more likely to at least minimize its impact. Yeah. About all those "asymptomatic" spreaders. Otherwise known as people with good immune systems.

Notice they are all wearing masks.

I too have spent time there, society is *extremely* compliant and interested in the greater good for their fellow humans (ie. not “patriots” as bastardized in recent vernacular).

Yes they eat better generally, but again that has nothing to do w spread rather *might* have to do w recovery.

TL/DR: Perceived “Freedumbs” are what is putting us at the bottom of the list

**Harry** · 01-21-2021, 11:55 AM

Took my 93 y/o Mom to get her 1st shot, she got the Pfizer vaccine.

Today is the first day of Tier 1B in her state, I spent all day yesterday hitting refresh on my laptop every 30 seconds. Finally about 10pm last night they opened up the appointments. I grabbed her 8am on opening day (today). Glad I did, place was mellow when I dropped her off, turned into a shitshow shortly afterwards. Tons of people double parked all over.

No side effects so far, keeping a close eye on her. Shot #2 scheduled in 21 days.

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**riser4** · 01-21-2021, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Harry

Took my 93 y/o Mom to get her 1st shot, she got the Pfizer vaccine.

Today is the first day of Tier 1B in her state, I spent all day yesterday hitting refresh on my laptop every 30 seconds. Finally about 10pm last night they opened up the appointments. I grabbed her 8am on opening day (today). Glad I did, place was mellow when I dropped her off, turned into a shitshow shortly afterwards. Tons of people double parked all over.

No side effects so far, keeping a close eye on her. Shot #2 scheduled in 21 days.

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First tracks on opening day! Nice.

**huckbucket** · 01-21-2021, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Oh yeah?! Shows how little you know me and just want to project. I've said it before. I would heartily welcome socialized health care if only we had the balls to institute metabo laws (ie fat tax) like they have in Japan. BRING IT!!! Hint: We don't. We've caved to the PC police who promote the "body positive" bullshit.

Awwww. It's cute that you think that's why we don't have a "fat tax."

**Harry** · 01-21-2021, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by riser3

First tracks on opening day! Nice.

HA !
I like the way you think.

Can’t tell you how relieved I am to start this process. Maybe I can still salvage some of my own ski season. Been consumed with taking care of her this winter.

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**huckbucket** · 01-21-2021, 12:02 PM

I'm siding with pubs on this one. It's bullshit that Amazon just now decided to pitch in.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/am...ne-11611188439

**GoldMember** · 01-21-2021, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Mofro261

This is what I've been trying to get across- prime/boost vaccination gives a helluva better immune response than natural infection, with the only real correlate of sterilizing immunity being high levels of (polyclonal, ie against multiple epitopes) neutralizing antibodies. The mutations popping up are certainly something to watch for but so far all indications suggest vaccine immunity is still present at a significant level to the UK, S.African, etc mutations.

Yeah but you say it so sciencey and shit that no one knows what you're saying....

**old goat** · 01-21-2021, 12:16 PM

People in Asian countries have a long history of wearing masks in public--judging by random pictures I've seen over the years.
I don't understand why wearing a mask is perceived by many here as unmanly. Isn't our ethos--as expressed in John Wayne movies--that a strong man protects the weak (ie women, children, elderly). Too late now but maybe the right messaging--sacrifice a little bit of your freedom to protect the vulnerable--would have worked. All those military wannabes say they are willing to die to protect "freedom"--you'd think they'd be willing to wear a mask to protect their fellow citizens.

If Amazon mails vaccine via the USPS everyone in Truckee will die. People have been known to enter the post office perfectly healthy and not only contracted Covid waiting in line to pick up a package, but gotten sick, were intubated, given last rights, and died while still waiting their turn.

**Falcon3** · 01-21-2021, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

Too late now but maybe the right messaging--sacrifice a little bit of your freedom to protect the vulnerable--would have worked. All those military wannabes say they are willing to die to protect "freedom"--you'd think they'd be willing to wear a mask to protect their fellow citizens.

Except it isn’t about protecting the “weak”. It’s about feeling strong. Its about projecting machismo. These idiots walking around in tactical gear talking about freedoms don’t want to actually save people, they just want to shoot someone so they can feel good about their utterly meaningless lives.

**Danno** · 01-21-2021, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by thedude2340

Notice they are all wearing masks.

I too have spent time there, society is *extremely* compliant and interested in the greater good for their fellow humans (ie. not “patriots” as bastardized in recent vernacular).

Not just mask wearing. My understanding is that it's generally understood that you don't talk on the subways. Talking obviously sprays out more droplets and sprays them farther. Staying silent and staying masked limit the spread a lot.

**Tri-Ungulate** · 01-21-2021, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Originally Posted by char_

LThe thing you seem to be looking right past is that they are NOT GETTING AND SPREADING COVID-19 to one another in these Asian countries.

Imposibru. Have you not seen the videos of Japanese subways packed as ever? They're not magically "not getting and spreading covid-19". They're a great case to be made that their bodies are fighting it better than ours are.

You're 100% correct. There is no avoiding contracting the virus because of good diet and exercise. HOWEVER, you ARE a helluva lot more likely to at least minimize its impact. Yeah. About all those "asymptomatic" spreaders. Otherwise known as people with good immune systems.

Austin, in order for this to be "Imposibru" you're positing that the Japanese actually have a very high number of SARS CoV2 cases, just that they're all asymptomatic and/or not being detected.

Or are you saying that their diet and exercise somehow provide immunity to SARS CoV2 infection?

Do you have any data to back up either assertion?

A YouTube of a crowded Yokohama subway doesn't count.

**The AD** · 01-21-2021, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Not just mask wearing. My understanding is that it's generally understood that you don't talk on the subways. Talking obviously sprays out more droplets and sprays them farther. Staying silent and staying masked limit the spread a lot.

Although that rule seems fairly common on public transportation everywhere in my experience.

**Danno** · 01-21-2021, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

Although that rule seems fairly common on public transportation everywhere in my experience.

Really? I grew up riding the NYC subway to school, and until 9 months ago took the bus to work every day for the last 7 years, and my experience is that everyone in the US who is on public transportation with a friend/family member, talks to their companion.

**The AD** · 01-21-2021, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Really? I grew up riding the NYC subway to school, and until 9 months ago took the bus to work every day for the last 7 years, and my experience is that everyone in the US who is on public transportation with a friend/family member, talks to their companion.

I'm not saying everyone is dead silent, but to me it seems like most people (other than teenagers, who tend to be loud in all circumstances) keep reasonably quiet. The Japanese may take it to another level. I've never been there, so can't really compare.

**Danno** · 01-21-2021, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

I'm not saying everyone is dead silent, but to me it seems like most people (other than teenagers, who tend to be loud in all circumstances) keep reasonably quiet. The Japanese may take it to another level. I've never been there, so can't really compare.

I'm not addressing volume, as in how loud people are. Most people I see who are with companions talk quietly, so as not to disturb others. But they still talk. My understanding is that the Japanese simply do not talk while on public transportation. Which is a big difference.

**muted** · 01-21-2021, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

My understanding is that the Japanese simply do not talk while on public transportation. Which is a big difference.

There are signs on trains to be respectful of others by typing quietly, ha, never mind talking. Any phone convo does not happen on a subway (these people made emojis and texts mainstream probably because of this), and on a train you have to go to the bathroom car to talk on the phone, you can't talk while seated. You can be on a jam packed subway and it is dead, dead quiet, as everyone is on their phones. Yes a few people talk on subways, but compared to a NYC subway it is freakishly different sound-wise.

So yes, you are correct!

**MontuckyFried** · 01-21-2021, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Oh, please. Enlighten us with the federal candidates that you have voted for over the past 10 years that supported socialized healthcare...

Please understand that you can't just shove everyone into a binary like you so often do with me. Some of us can appreciate and understand positions from multiple sides, supporting some things and not so much others. I know thanks to the way we converse over the interwebs, we by default like to reduce others to 140 characters or less and have attention spans worse than a gnat. IRL however, most people are far more nuanced than we can properly convey online. Keep an open mind, my friend.

**MontuckyFried** · 01-21-2021, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Harry

Can’t tell you how relieved I am to start this process. Maybe I can still salvage some of my own ski season. Been consumed with taking care of her this winter.]

That's awesome. And good on you for taking care of your rad mom. On the plus side about back home, it doesn't seem like you've missed too much at least earlier in the Big Sky ski season. Best of luck out there with your mom. She's lucky to have a son who cares so much.

**MontuckyFried** · 01-21-2021, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Tri-Ungulate

Austin, in order for this to be "Imposibru" you're positing that the Japanese actually have a very high number of SARS CoV2 cases, just that they're all asymptomatic and/or not being detected.

Or are you saying that their diet and exercise somehow provide immunity to SARS CoV2 infection?

Do you have any data to back up either assertion?

It doesn't have to be such an either/or, Tri. I'm not saying that Japan has high numbers. Also not saying it's magically non-existent. I'm also not stating the masks and other measures aren't helping either. It just my belief (keyword: "belief") that we as a nation are missing out on the other HUGE component and advantage they have over us: overall health. We literally suppress our immune systems by loading up our GIANT grocery carts with twinkies, ice cream, and potato chips among the usual diet of overly processed foods. We're not staying fit. I mean as a gross generalization of course. There is no denying our nation (as a whole) eats terribly, is out of shape, and is overall NOT in good health. And that was before the epidemic.

I just wish that we'd acknowledge that. I've observed first hand that the countries who are doing well have diets RICH in prebiotic foods (garlic, leeks, onions), probiotic foods (kimchi, natto, miso, etc.), whole foods with tons of veggies. There's simply no comparison in how we eat. Personally in my family, we've adopted those sorts of diets and anecdotally, I feel its served us quite well. In fact, last night my wife cooked up some badass ramen from scratch from homemade beef and fish bone broths. I think our country would be much better off in how our bodies can fight off this disease if only we were more purposeful in what we put into our bodies, which has profound effects on our health. Nutritionists and some doctors are TRYING to get the word out more about this, but too few care to listen. We'd rather keep eating like crap and doing nothing but binging Netflix in the dark for months on end.

**Falcon3** · 01-21-2021, 03:14 PM

Japan has an average age of 45.9 years old, USA has 37.4. Data has shown that age has a massive impact on COVID symptoms.

Shut up about your healthy miracle diet. This is the vaccine thread anyway. Diets aren’t vaccines.

**skaredshtles** · 01-21-2021, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Please understand that you can't just shove everyone into a binary like you so often do with me. Some of us can appreciate and understand positions from multiple sides, supporting some things and not so much others. I know thanks to the way we converse over the interwebs, we by default like to reduce others to 140 characters or less and have attention spans worse than a gnat. IRL however, most people are far more nuanced than we can properly convey online. Keep an open mind, my friend.

Shall I assume, then, that this can be interpreted as "I've never voted for a candidate in a federal election that supports universal healthcare?"