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  1. #15426
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    Oct 2005
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    the issue was paid sick leave as a means of controlling the spread of disease.

    in my home state, the 'Right to Work' advocates will say, 'You can take Five weeks of (sick leave) ! '


    Unpaid.

    summer ( apparently Australia ) gets ten days Paid - by law.

    my point was, many Americans, as Bunion commented, consider Paid Sick Leave contrary to their political beliefs.
    it will take a shift in the values of society for Paid Sick Leave to be part of controlling diseases like Influenza and covid.


    ... good night. tj

  2. #15427
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    Can’t tell you how many companies I’ve worked at where people with no “call offs” get awards.

    Attendance bonuses etc.
    True story: years ago I'm sitting in a crew room, and a particularly obsequious colleague walks in, checks his mail folder, and announces, "the company gave me a hundred dollar visa card for not using any of my sick days!"

    A jaded old-timer pipes up from the corner, "Huh... they gave me six grand for using all of them"

  3. #15428
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    Isn’t PTO considered “debt” and sick leave not considered debt?

  4. #15429
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    There's probably some of this, but I also think it's primarily driven by people who were brought up to believe missing work for being sick is a sign of weakness and that always showing up is the manly thing to do.
    True

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

  5. #15430
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    Oct 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Isn’t PTO considered “debt” and sick leave not considered debt?
    It depends on the company’s policies and practices for compensated absences
    Biggest issue - can employees carry over unused PTO or sick leave to future periods?

    If yes, then the company generally needs to accrue a liability for compensated absences.
    If employer has a “use it or lose it” policy then generally a reserve does not need to be accrued

  6. #15431
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    Jan 2008
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    Missouri just expanded Medicaid ala the ACA. Better late than never. With strikes, people quitting jobs or deciding not to work--maybe we're on the cusp of a pendulum swing in favor of workers--including paid sick leave. Whether that translates into politics remains to be seen.

  7. #15432
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiJ View Post
    summer ( apparently Australia ) gets ten days Paid - by law.

    my point was, many Americans, as Bunion commented, consider Paid Sick Leave contrary to their political beliefs.
    it will take a shift in the values of society for Paid Sick Leave to be part of controlling diseases like Influenza and covid.
    There’s also nothing stopping employers from offering above the legal minimums as part of their benefits package - mine does. But the kid in their first McJob flipping burgers would get at least the legal minimum paid sick and annual leave days each year.

    I understand the reluctance to legislate for paid sick leave in the US. It’s why I don’t advocate for the US to follow Aus (or vice versa) on most things because we’re similar but…different. It’s partly due to the time period and conditions under which each country came about, even though we all came from the Brits. Short version: you guys had to go to war to get freedom from the Brits, we didn’t, so we each value rules and government differently. But paid sick leave…that just seems more about profit than freedom.

    Back on topic, looks like they’re cracking the international border into Sydney on November 1st for citizens, permanent residents and their immediate family. No quarantine either if fully vaccinated and negative PCR before boarding the flight.

    ACT is now above 99% for first dose for everyone 12 and over, 76% for fully vaccinated, and they’ve just announced they’re going to stop reporting first doses because it’s pointless to update it any more. NSW is at 91.4% first dose, 77.8% fully dosed for 16+.

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  8. #15433
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    Mar 2012
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    There's also the workaround of employers capping employee schedules at 29 or 34 hours a week to have fewer or no "full time" employees to owe benefits to. Any law with any teeth would have to be structured to require X number of sick leave/pto benefit packages per Y TOTAL workforce hours. So it wouldn't matter if they only scheduled someone for 29 hours. They'd still recieve the benefits package at a pro rated rate. Right now they don't have to give jack to "part time" employees so they just reduce the hours of formerly full time folks when a new law comes out requiring benefits for "full time" employees.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  9. #15434
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    Sep 2010
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    Tejas
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    There's also the workaround of employers capping employee schedules at 29 or 34 hours a week to have fewer or no "full time" employees to owe benefits to.
    Oh, who could have predicted this?! /s

    Cause, meet effect.

  10. #15435
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    Oct 2002
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    my own little world
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    I had a job from 2017-2019 where PTO and sick leave (40 hours/yr) were counted separately. It was a foreign owned company. I'm now working for arguably the best place to work, tops list almost every year. PTO and sick is the same bucket. But, there's something called critical time off and I got that paid from Dec 13th through the end of the month when wife got COVID bad. My manager totally hooked me up with that because she was cleared Dec 21st but I was then under stay home for 10 days after that, had it too. all the way to Jan 2nd paid and kept all my PTO.

    But ya, 95% of the jobs either have nothing or PTO that gets used if you're sick. You can take unpaid family leave instead.

    Sorry for the side rant..

    How is this COVID related?? Think of all the fast food and grocery store workers who knew they probably had it but kept working anyway because a positive test means they sit home not getting paid while bills pile up. Even if it's just the flu, people need to be able to stay home paid when truly sick. This is why SEPERATE and fully paid sick leave is critical to public health safety...
    I’m not saying your employer isn’t rad, but the FFCRA mandated sick leave for COVID quarantine (up to 80 hours at full rate of pay) and sick leave to care for somebody due to illness or childcare related to COVID (up to 80 hours at 2/3 rate of pay), all in addition to any existing PTO or sick time. So at best, they gave you the extra 1/3 and didn’t spin any bullshit around you using it - which is still really cool.

    The pandemic being what it was, we had certain staff who kept going into quarantine, so we funded an additional 80 hours to use for either purpose…still wasn’t enough for some people. But then you’re left wondering what the fuck these people were doing, as invariably the manager (or worse, their teammates) is sucked down the rabbit hole of seeing pictures of these same people out at bars and parties on facebook.

    My hope is that the FFCRA provides a precedent for something permanent. I’m not overly optimistic, but it’d be nice. Be neat if it happened around the same time single payer healthcare is a thing. Seems that’s something that business could get behind…mandate sick time and take the burden of health insurance off the plate at the same time.
    focus.

  11. #15436
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    Nov 2005
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    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
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    “Bring Out The Pitchforks! “

    Big Pharma Profiteering

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...are-big-pharma
    Forum Cross Pollinator

  12. #15437
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Where the sheets have no stains
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    my point was, many Americans, as Bunion commented, consider Paid Sick Leave contrary to their political beliefs.
    it will take a shift in the values of society for Paid Sick Leave to be part of controlling diseases like Influenza and covid.
    Did ya see the /S at the end of that?

    That equals End Sarcasm....

    And yes your formatting makes much of what you post unintelligible.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  13. #15438
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    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    “Bring Out The Pitchforks! “

    Big Pharma Profiteering

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...are-big-pharma
    That's a super tired argument.

  14. #15439
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    Dec 2009
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    It may not be a new argument but it is a valid argument. The author conveniently leaves out the republican lead late night congressional vote in 2003 that disallowed drug price negotiations in the first place, and the republican lead congressional vote in 2007 that upheld it.

  15. #15440
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    Oct 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Did ya see the /S at the end of that?

    That equals End Sarcasm....

    And yes your formatting makes much of what you post unintelligible.

    previous post, I wrote, ' I believe Bunion has his tongue planted firmly in his cheek... ' ( denoting sarcasm or satire ) And

    you are not wrong about Paid Sick Leave conflicting with a lot of peoples' political beliefs.
    But it is not socialism and it is not Communism...
    ( I was not claiming that Bunion was equating Paid Sick Leave with socialism.
    I believe it is contrary to many peoples' political beliefs - I believe that is accurate. )


    comments about my 'formatting' have been acknowledged, and I will work on modifying my 'formatting'.
    it is not "unintelligible" -



    with due respect. tj
    Last edited by skiJ; 10-15-2021 at 12:42 PM.

  16. #15441
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    Agreed, mostly. If anything it’s a good business decision to promote sick leave programs. There is, however, a strong capitalist bent to the “I go to work even when I feel like shit” pride that so many in our society exhibit. It’s hand in hand with our inclination to fight against people potentially taking advantage of a system or letting somebody get away with something or not “earning” what they get according to individualistic value systems.

    And keep on keeping on, skiJ! Your formatting is terrible and I often skip your posts, but that’s no sweat off anybody’s back. When I don’t I have to slow down….and I’m usually rewarded for my efforts.

    You’re doing something wrong, especially if you’re attributing it to your phone and small screen, but that’s none of my business.
    focus.

  17. #15442
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    Keep Tacoma Feared
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckbucket View Post
    That's a super tired argument.
    Reminds me of my favorite Canadian punk rock song:

    “Publicly subsidized! Privately profitable!” That’s the anthem of the upper-tier (the puppeteer untouchable). We focus a moment, nod in approval and bury our head back in the bar-codes of these neo-colonials

  18. #15443
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    Jan 2005
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    Access to Granlibakken
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    Yeah sadly I think many have stopped reading skiJ’s posts because of the weird formatting.

    Strange
    (How)
    formatting
    Aff-
    ects

    Readability

  19. #15444
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    “Bring Out The Pitchforks! “

    Big Pharma Profiteering

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...are-big-pharma
    I'm no fan of pharma and their pricing, but $712 for a 5 day course (40 pills) of a newly released novel drug that may prevent hospitalization and death doesn't strike me as particularly steep. Certainly not as steep as a lot of drugs on the market that do a lot less good. And obviously basing the price of a drug on the cost of manufacturing it is absurd.

    I don't disagree with the premise that Americans pay too much for drugs, that the govt and insurers should be able to negotiate lower prices, and that when taxpayer funded research is used to generate profits the taxpayers should benefit, either by lower prices or by licensing fees companies pay the govt to use govt funded research. I do think the author could have found much better examples. Harvoni, a drug to treat chronic hepatitis C, costs 94K for a 12 week course, That is less than the cost of a liver transplant, but still . . . The injectable cholesterol drug my lipid specialist wants me to take costs $500/month (one shot every 2 weeks), for life.

  20. #15445
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tahoe-ish
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Yeah sadly I think many have stopped reading skiJ’s posts because of the weird formatting.

    Strange
    (How)
    formatting
    Aff-
    ects

    Readability
    Agreed. I usually scroll right past the oddly formatted posts, and discredit those with egregious misspellings. If you can't be bothered to proofread your missive, why would you expect it to be taken seriously?
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  21. #15446
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    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    16,109
    skiJ
    i feel like i provoked this skiJ assault -- sorry about that...not my intent to deliver all this angst at you. The content of your posts is appreciated

    all
    can we let it go?

    of all the things to spend energy on, it's a bit misdirected for this thread

  22. #15447
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    Aug 2020
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    1,202
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I'm no fan of pharma and their pricing, but $712 for a 5 day course (40 pills) of a newly released novel drug that may prevent hospitalization and death doesn't strike me as particularly steep. Certainly not as steep as a lot of drugs on the market that do a lot less good. And obviously basing the price of a drug on the cost of manufacturing it is absurd.

    I don't disagree with the premise that Americans pay too much for drugs, that the govt and insurers should be able to negotiate lower prices, and that when taxpayer funded research is used to generate profits the taxpayers should benefit, either by lower prices or by licensing fees companies pay the govt to use govt funded research. I do think the author could have found much better examples. Harvoni, a drug to treat chronic hepatitis C, costs 94K for a 12 week course, That is less than the cost of a liver transplant, but still . . . The injectable cholesterol drug my lipid specialist wants me to take costs $500/month (one shot every 2 weeks), for life.
    I remember seeing someone talk about how the US could nationalize the company that makes the hepC drug, treat everyone, sell the rest of the company back to the market or original owners (maybe it was sell it back for $1) and come out way ahead rather than paying the huge treatment cost due to the markup.

  23. #15448
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,493
    thanks, ::: :::
    I do not see anywhere that it was you.

    perhaps the importance of this thread to me, and my usefulness to this thread are part of what I need to reconsider.

    it is an outdoor adventure website.


    This community is important to me; I have been here a long time, as have many;
    I appreciate the efforts of several others to promote Vaccination as a means to slow the spread of covid.

    my friends diagnosed with covid three weeks ago may survive. . . .


    I recognize that my posts read like lecture notes, and I will work on modifying that. at the same time, I have worked to shift the tone of the discussion, and I do not apologize for that.

    Thank you for reading.

    respectfully. tj
    " ... I will do anything to go Skiing ... There Is no pride ... " (Miriam , 2005-2006 epic)

    Dec21, 2016. LittleBigLost :
    " I think about it everyday. It is my reminder to live life to the fullest. I get up early, go to bed late, 'cuz I got shit to do. Like I said, I'm 61. Not going to wait till I'm 81 to do stuff, ...

    Get out there and do stuff!

    Enjoy life to the fullest!!

    See you on the slopes! "

  24. #15449
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    Aug 2020
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    1,202
    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    skiJ
    i feel like i provoked this skiJ assault -- sorry about that...not my intent to deliver all this angst at you. The content of your posts is appreciated

    all
    can we let it go?

    of all the things to spend energy on, it's a bit misdirected for this thread
    Yeah, I hope that didn’t come off as anything more than “I can’t understand what you are trying to say, please consider standard English formatting to communicate your ideas.”

  25. #15450
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    Nov 2008
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    Edge of the Great Basin
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    If a person thinks $712 for a 5 day course of Merck pills costs too much or $2,100 per dose of Regeneron is ridiculous then stick it to Big Pharma, corrupt bureaucrats and politicians by getting a $20 vaccine instead.

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