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  1. #9251
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  2. #9252
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    I keep hearing this from people. Just because people come across as nice superficially doesn’t mean anything. It’s one’s actions that count. We live in a society and have basic obligations to our fellow citizens. We have to trust the experts that have put in the time to be able to make these recommendations. If we can’t do that, I’m not sure there’s any hope.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Yeah, weird dichotomy with this guy. I trust him, we're good friends and coworkers, on any topic besides covid, we generally agree or at least see each other's point of view. He truly is one of the more solid do the right thing in any walk of life type guys I know and has a strong moral compass. Except covid.

    I'm not about to throw away my personal or work relationship with him because of his view on one topic. We've talked a lot about it and just can't get eye to eye. I'm get vaxed and he's a stay out of my shit regarding covid. That is where it's going to stand. I know it's frustrating for medical folks like yourself who have every right to be frustrated. It's frustrating for me too. I want him to take care of himself, his family, and society. Not sure what would accomplish that but it is certainly not going to help him see the light by burning down a friendship.

    Looks like 51% of the US is vaccinated today. Do we throw out half the population because they are morons on this topic? Because they were indoctrinated into a disgusting political tit for tat? I'm disappointed but I'm not ready to write off these people in my life...I may avoid them for awhile as good so dis practices say I should and I'm certainly not forget all the good about them. If they write me off for avoiding interaction with them because of covid, then it's different and maybe we were not as good of friends as I thought.

    I need to be clear that I think the actions of the unvaccinated are truly hurting our society for both health and the economy (terms those folks should understand). I've conveyed these thoughts in the past to friends like the guy we're talking about. He disagrees. Time will tell. And even it when it becomes very apparent people should have been vaxed early, I doubt the other side will see it that way.

  3. #9253
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    That 51% figure includes children, right?
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  4. #9254
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    I think Americans are too superficially nice.

    Certain things need to be unacceptable by society.

    We shouldn't NEED mask mandates because being unmasked indoors during a deadly surge of a pandemic should be akin to showing up at your kids dance recital naked.

    People should not accept anti masker, anti vaxxers just like they dont accept smoking indoors, hitting kids. Hell, obesity is less accepted than antivaxxers.



    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    Yeah, weird dichotomy with this guy. I trust him, we're good friends and coworkers, on any topic besides covid, we generally agree or at least see each other's point of view. He truly is one of the more solid do the right thing in any walk of life type guys I know and has a strong moral compass. Except covid.

    I'm not about to throw away my personal or work relationship with him because of his view on one topic. We've talked a lot about it and just can't get eye to eye. I'm get vaxed and he's a stay out of my shit regarding covid. That is where it's going to stand. I know it's frustrating for medical folks like yourself who have every right to be frustrated. It's frustrating for me too. I want him to take care of himself, his family, and society. Not sure what would accomplish that but it is certainly not going to help him see the light by burning down a friendship.

    Looks like 51% of the US is vaccinated today. Do we throw out half the population because they are morons on this topic? Because they were indoctrinated into a disgusting political tit for tat? I'm disappointed but I'm not ready to write off these people in my life...I may avoid them for awhile as good so dis practices say I should and I'm certainly not forget all the good about them. If they write me off for avoiding interaction with them because of covid, then it's different and maybe we were not as good of friends as I thought.

    I need to be clear that I think the actions of the unvaccinated are truly hurting our society for both health and the economy (terms those folks should understand). I've conveyed these thoughts in the past to friends like the guy we're talking about. He disagrees. Time will tell. And even it when it becomes very apparent people should have been vaxed early, I doubt the other side will see it that way.

  5. #9255
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    Got the numbers here. Looks like it does.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavir...accine-tracker

  6. #9256
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    The virus resurgence may well help the economy in that it is tapping the brakes on the recovery, which may help quell some of the crazy "getting back to normal" demand that was outstripping supply and fueling inflation. From what I've read evidence is starting to show people are once again altering their behavior due to surging caseloads. So less eating out in restaurants that can't find enough staff anyway, less traveling on understaffed airlines that are having difficulty buying jet fuel, etc. From an economic perspective it could prove advantageous because it sure seemed like things were getting nuts there for awhile. I guess time will tell if I'm right or full of shit.

    In any case it sucks most for healthcare workers who are bearing the brunt of this fourth wave.

  7. #9257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salvelinusconfluentus View Post
    I think Americans are too superficially nice.

    Certain things need to be unacceptable by society.

    We shouldn't NEED mask mandates because being unmasked indoors during a deadly surge of a pandemic should be akin to showing up at your kids dance recital naked.

    People should not accept anti masker, anti vaxxers just like they dont accept smoking indoors, hitting kids.
    + 1

  8. #9258
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    I keep hearing this from people. Just because people come across as nice superficially doesn’t mean anything. It’s one’s actions that count. We live in a society and have basic obligations to our fellow citizens. We have to trust the experts that have put in the time to be able to make these recommendations. If we can’t do that, I’m not sure there’s any hope.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Yep!

  9. #9259
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    My uncle is a born again baptist minister. Grew up RC. He and my aunt were vaxed in January and have long moved on to more important things like their continual work and teaming to improve literacy in their nearby at-risk communities and advocating for children with special needs. Vaccination has allowed them to continue full steam on their worthy callings.

  10. #9260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salvelinusconfluentus View Post
    I think Americans are too superficially nice.

    Certain things need to be unacceptable by society.

    We shouldn't NEED mask mandates because being unmasked indoors during a deadly surge of a pandemic should be akin to showing up at your kids dance recital naked.

    People should not accept anti masker, anti vaxxers just like they dont accept smoking indoors, hitting kids. Hell, obesity is less accepted than antivaxxers.
    I agree somewhat. However, I do see Conundrum's conundrum.

    While I don't have close friends that are un-vaxed, I do have have acquaintances, neighbors and many co-workers who aren't. I don't "accept" that they're not vaxed, but what can I do? I have to be nice to them. I can't see telling my great neighbor Matt, "Hey asshole, until you're vaxed, don't fucking talk to me, ok? It's unacceptable to me." I mean come on, is that really going to have him go get the jab or did I just ruin a good neighborly relationship?

  11. #9261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    Got the numbers here. Looks like it does.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavir...accine-tracker
    Fuck you, rest of Wyoming. Seriously.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  12. #9262
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiBo View Post
    I agree somewhat. However, I do see Conundrum's conundrum.

    While I don't have close friends that are un-vaxed, I do have have acquaintances, neighbors and many co-workers who aren't. I don't "accept" that they're not vaxed, but what can I do? I have to be nice to them. I can't see telling my great neighbor Matt, "Hey asshole, until you're vaxed, don't fucking talk to me, ok? It's unacceptable to me." I mean come on, is that really going to have him go get the jab or did I just ruin a good neighborly relationship?
    I agree. My family is vaccinated, I feel we're protected against serious covid illness, and I'm not going to ask or give a shit about anybody else's vaccination status. That includes my teenage kids' friends, who, like most adults, are about half and half. I'm not telling my kids they can't hang out with anybody, etc. I can understand the impulse to avoid anti vaxxers, but I just don't want to heap any more divisiveness on my kids than they've already witnessed with all this pandemic shit.

  13. #9263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    Yeah, weird dichotomy with this guy. I trust him, we're good friends and coworkers, on any topic besides covid, we generally agree or at least see each other's point of view. He truly is one of the more solid do the right thing in any walk of life type guys I know and has a strong moral compass. Except covid.

    I'm not about to throw away my personal or work relationship with him because of his view on one topic. We've talked a lot about it and just can't get eye to eye. I'm get vaxed and he's a stay out of my shit regarding covid. That is where it's going to stand. I know it's frustrating for medical folks like yourself who have every right to be frustrated. It's frustrating for me too. I want him to take care of himself, his family, and society. Not sure what would accomplish that but it is certainly not going to help him see the light by burning down a friendship.

    Looks like 51% of the US is vaccinated today. Do we throw out half the population because they are morons on this topic? Because they were indoctrinated into a disgusting political tit for tat? I'm disappointed but I'm not ready to write off these people in my life...I may avoid them for awhile as good so dis practices say I should and I'm certainly not forget all the good about them. If they write me off for avoiding interaction with them because of covid, then it's different and maybe we were not as good of friends as I thought.

    I need to be clear that I think the actions of the unvaccinated are truly hurting our society for both health and the economy (terms those folks should understand). I've conveyed these thoughts in the past to friends like the guy we're talking about. He disagrees. Time will tell. And even it when it becomes very apparent people should have been vaxed early, I doubt the other side will see it that way.
    Thanks for that perspective. I think I have about a half dozen examples like this, one a very old friend who wants to visit while on a trip. Always respectful of our being "comfortable" while she knows me plenty well enough to know comfort is not a standard. The term sounds like an echo of some cult training--advice for handling the unbelievers.

    I'm considering options like, "yeah, we'll all wear masks while you're here." And whether she could be comfortable with that or if the mere suggestion is too offensive.

    This is nuts. i blame the assholes who are telling their listeners what the "other" thinks. But I can't quite spare the people who should know better than to listen, either.

  14. #9264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    Long, good post.....
    Yeah, I got a buddy like that. He grew up ski racing at Brighton, his dad was a preacher. The only college he went to was some bible college. Eventually he knocked up his girlfriend, a hippie massage therapist, which I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to do when your dad is the preacher... They eventually got married and none of their 3 kids ever had a single vaccine, between her hippie shit and his evangelical shit. Man, would we ever argue about that shit when I still worked in construction and we worked together (a plumber jokingly nicknamed us "bicker brothers drywall"). I thought, and still do, that zero vaccines for the kids was pretty much child abuse. But we generally had "discussions", not "arguments".

    But at the end of the day, he'd do anything for me. He's literally been elbow deep in my clogged toilet drain, he's my go-to for home maintenance stuff that I don't know much about. When the wife was seriously injured a couple of years ago, he was there with anything we needed. I needed a truck for something earlier this summer, he didn't hesitate to offer his.

    So yeah, even though I think he and his family should all be vaxxed and I know he hasn't due to his occasional Facebook post, he's ultimately a good guy. To me, his Christian values should pretty much require him to help his neighbor and get the jab, but there's no way I could convince him of that. He's even had some health issues that make him short of breath, so I don't think Delta will treat him well.

    Sometimes I wish I could sneak up on him and give him some a little Moderna for his own good...

  15. #9265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salvelinusconfluentus View Post
    I think Americans are too superficially nice.

    Certain things need to be unacceptable by society.

    We shouldn't NEED mask mandates because being unmasked indoors during a deadly surge of a pandemic should be akin to showing up at your kids dance recital naked.

    People should not accept anti masker, anti vaxxers just like they dont accept smoking indoors, hitting kids. Hell, obesity is less accepted than antivaxxers.
    Was just listening to a very interesting freakonomics podcast on the sociological spectrum of collectivism vs independence in cultures. Needless the say (I think), the US is an extreme outlier on the independent side. Like waaaay extreme. No other country really even came close. As opposed to say, Japan and other Asian countries on the opposite end of the spectrum which put a premium on “the group” needs. It kind of made some of the covid refusal a little more understandable in terms of general cultural mores. Still pisses me off though.

  16. #9266
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    A Bloomberg opinion piece https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...-vaxx-politics

    I can’t prove that this extremely dysfunctional dynamic is what makes anti-vaccine comments so common among Republicans right now, and it probably isn’t the entire story. But it fits with what’s happening. It fits with opposition to vaccines, and to masks and other public health measures. It fits with cutting off expanded unemployment insurance in Republican states, where governors were afraid to challenge True Conservatives who urged it.
    I realize that my notions of Conservatism are based on the conformist version of conservatism common in the older generations of my family. Suck it up
    and fight Hitler or Commies was the same sense of conformism / patriotism as getting vaccinated or getting a job or paying taxes. Mitt Romney is one of the only visible vestiges of this.

    There’s an element of Abbie Hoffman ‘Steal This Book’ radicalism in the Fuck All Y’all I ain’t getting vaxxed’. I’m not sure how we deal with it as a nation. Its developed into a counter cultural rebellious thing. in the 80s or 90s taking a hypothetical COVID vaccine would have been a non event, not a counter cultural signifier. Are we in a period now where someone bitten by a foamy raccoon refuses a rabies shot? ‘I’ve done my own research’ etc.

  17. #9267
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    Enjoy what live music you can before it's gone again...


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  18. #9268
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    On my FB feed. People discussing directed energy weapons that are starting all these wildfires. Plus PCR being used for falsifying positive covid tests.

  19. #9269
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    Was just listening to a very interesting freakonomics podcast on the sociological spectrum of collectivism vs independence in cultures. Needless the say (I think), the US is an extreme outlier on the independent side. Like waaaay extreme. No other country really even came close. As opposed to say, Japan and other Asian countries on the opposite end of the spectrum which put a premium on “the group” needs. It kind of made some of the covid refusal a little more understandable in terms of general cultural mores. Still pisses me off though.
    Too much religious fruit cakey-ness. That's who the denier liars cater to. They amplify such topics to further cater to their constituents, creating chaos and self-destruction as they continue to construct their self-fulfilling end times caliphate of fucktardedness. And we thought ISIS was the looneytoons....


  20. #9270
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    Wow. I can actually read this thread now.

    Nice work mods


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  21. #9271
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    Agreed.
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  22. #9272
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    News reported tonight that people who refuse the vax may lose their unemployment benefits.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  23. #9273
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    News reported tonight that people who refuse the vax may lose their unemployment benefits.
    If they are fired from their jobs for non-compliance with a company vaccine policy.

    Seems in line with normal unemployment rules.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  24. #9274
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    I destroyed a few real relationships last summer on FB in my local town, people that I had known for over 10 years. People that I generally like and I like their kids. A few other friends of mine did the same with those same people. It’s pretty awkward seeing the former friends at the store. I have regrets. I have several other vax hesitant / anti-vax friends that are local. When they post stupid shit on social media, I do not respond anymore because there are now plenty of others that do it in a meaningful way. A welcome relief. There are still some friends that I’m now calling “lost souls.” Our kids are friends and in the same classrooms. I may never let my kids go to their homes without me or my wife’s presence because we no longer trust the person’s judgements. I know a GC for a big company where most staff are vaxed, but the GCs assistant happily describes themselves as not vaxed. The GC is considering a change to the type of decisions that were previously delegated to the assistant.

    Just learned of another friend with long Covid. Infected in December, and vaxed with mRNA in March. Shortness of breath and “psych” are the current symptoms. I’m not clear what “psych” means, maybe “brain fog.” Seriously smart (exceptionally gifted) individual. No co-morbidities. I’m really hoping there’s full recovery. Their spouse is an FNP and brought it home. Their whole family (man, woman, mother, 2 young kids) got it. The HCW spouse: “it could be a lot worse.”

    My wife knows a lot of people with long covid, whole families with 2 or 3 young children. Several children that have developmental disabilities. Hard to know if long Covid will adversely affect their already challenged development.

    Another friend with a 16YO with duvets. That child is just starting gene therapy, which could have a positive outcome. The fact the child has lived so long is against the odds. My friend is really concerned that his child (1 of 3) will catch it from somebody accidentally bringing it into their home especially with the other 2 kids going back to school. The child has seizures on most days and the concern is that an infection (kid is vaxed) will be severe.

    <sigh>

  25. #9275
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    Healthcare workers protest

    vaccine-vigil-continues-lebanon-nh/
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    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
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