To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[MultiVerse]

Now they want equine passports too? Will this madness never end?

Attachment 384150

[Buster Highmen]

you all keep bringing that up..that we have always needed "vax status" and its simply not true...Yep...to go to PUBLIC school I had to prove status...NEVER have I had to prove ANY vaccination status in the USA besides that. We also know plenty avoid that in many states with exemptions. This is hardly a "rule".

It is a rule for public education, full stop. It has not been abused, full stop.
It has also been true in the past, the U.S. Supreme Court in the case of Jacobson v. Massachusetts upheld the constitutionality of mandatory smallpox vaccination programs to preserve the public health.

So you're wrong, full stop.

And again, despite your incessant repetition, the id is only required for private businesses, it is not required to be displayed on demand in public spaces.

In other news..kids are basically fucked..
https://fortune.com/2021/08/19/back-...delta-variant/

As a result of restricting mask mandates.

[Toadman]

I am all for the choice of anti-vaxxers not to get the shot and die. Just need the COVID to get more infectious and more deadly for the unvaxxed. This COVID mutation thingy is taking way too long to kill off the unvaxxed. Hurry up already, and get 'er done.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/20...d-intv-vpx.cnn

[Buster Highmen]

its asking for your DL/ID as well..did you miss that part? the DL contains personal info....you know like your DL#? Address? some states even your Social.....no thanks...

Oh my god, it's like you're walking into a bar or something!
I'll consider your misplaced concern poorly spent.

[KQ]

I do, and I dont ever recall google seeing my DL# and other personal info that is contained on a DL/ID. Hell I have a REAL ID, that has tons of info on it I dont want just "anyone" seeing..

Not everyone has a cell phone either. Check those low income communities and rural communities I have referenced over and over...

For doG sakes' man go run to your cave! Hurry before someone finds you and squeezes all your very personal information out of you like a tube of toothpaste! Run! We'll let you know when it's safe to come out but until then.... shhhhhhhhh keep quiet and lay low.

[XXX-er]

its asking for your DL/ID as well..did you miss that part? the DL contains personal info....you know like your DL#? Address? some states even your Social.....no thanks...

do you really think its all that hard for them

them being the people who issued it to you

to get any of that info ?

and what is the government going to do with it ?

[Ted Striker]

You have to give a fingerprint to get into Disney.

Seriously? wow.

[bagtagley]

and what is the government going to do with it ?

[MultiVerse]

A new large UK study with over 300K people including a randomized component involving regular testing to determine both vaccine immunity and natural immunity during Delta indicates mRNA vaccine immunity performs better than natural immunity. While this and other studies show a small reduction in vaccine efficacy against Delta compared to Alpha, the overall numbers are still good. The blue column contains mRNA vaccinated numbers, the green column contains unvaccinated but tested positive in the past:

Attachment 384151

Due to the randomized component, the conclusions in this study should provide higher confidence compared to the previous observational studies.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...237v1.full.pdf

[hawkgt]

this.......

[Ted Striker]

For doG sakes' man go run to your cave!

I got so sick and tired of the city
Of stepping in dog shit
And girls that dress too pretty
Or parking my car in a tow-away zone
I got this idea to live alone...

I ditched the rat race with a smile on my face
I poked around 'til I found just the right place
Now when people get nosey and they stumble my way
I've got something very simple to say:
Get outta my cave!

[Flounder]

its asking for your DL/ID as well..did you miss that part? the DL contains personal info....you know like your DL#? Address? some states even your Social.....no thanks...

Boy are you going to be in for a shock if you head to a dispensary. They copy that shit and keep it on file.

[Skidog]

For doG sakes' man go run to your cave! Hurry before someone finds you and squeezes all your very personal information out of you like a tube of toothpaste! Run! We'll let you know when it's safe to come out but until then.... shhhhhhhhh keep quiet and lay low.

chip chip chip away......thats how it works...keep thinking it doesnt...

Patriot act...instituted during very troubled times, removed many many rights....

but again...lets forget all the people that dont have any of these things? Think about how much of a pain it is to get a new ID if you lost yours...most here are likely pretty organized and can put your hands on all the needed docs...now, that homeless guy, that got all his shit stolen multiple times in his life..has no real need for any form of "ID", cant get a new one because you know he doesnt have an address for correspondence...but I guess there are probably only like 10 of those people in the USA, least according to most here...

Make sure you worry about your "white privilege", and fuck those dirty poor homeless people. If they can't get an ID to get a slice of pizza with the few pennies they could manage begging that day, well so what huh?

[twat]

How about not showing your vaxxcard. But the antivaxxers carry a little bell at all time?

[Skidog]

Boy are you going to be in for a shock if you head to a dispensary. They copy that shit and keep it on file.

yep and I CHOOSE to go there right? I dont HAVE to....a lot of you are missing that simple distinction it seems.

We start with restaurants and concerts, it slowly slips to Costcos and other retail places, then, Walmart falls prey to it...what do those IDless follks do now? Please enlighten me oh wise ones...

We requiring VAX ID's when we arrest folks? Before they enter into General population in prison? Not that i've heard...

[Skidog]

How many "rights" have we already lost due to the actions of the unvaccinated?

me personally? Aside from the shitty education my kids might get, not too many here...

[KQ]

.........

When's your next shift at the Union Gospel Mission?

[funkendrenchman]

me personally? Aside from the shitty education my kids might get, not too many here...

It's all about you.

[abraham]

Shit man, I've had to give up my passport/Id to make a site visit when trying to sell something. There are lots of places where you have over control of your id briefly. Some of them make a copy for their records, like a hotel.

[Salvelinusconfluentus]

We just lost a coworker to covid. Probably 50s, not fat and healthy enough to get a cdl medical card. No idea on vaccination status.

[KQ]

Veteran dies of treatable illness as COVID fills hospital beds, leaving doctors "playing musical chairs"

When U.S. Army veteran Daniel Wilkinson started feeling sick last week, he went to the hospital in Bellville, Texas, outside Houston. His health problem wasn't related to COVID-19, but Wilkinson needed advanced care, and with the coronavirus filling up intensive care beds, he couldn't get it in time to save his life.


"He loved his country," his mother, Michelle Puget, told "CBS This Morning" lead national correspondent David Begnaud. "He served two deployments in Afghanistan, came home with a Purple Heart, and it was a gallstone that took him out."

Last Saturday, Wilkinson's mother rushed him to Bellville Medical Center, just three doors down from their home.

Belville emergency room physician Dr. Hasan Kakli treated Wilkinson, and discovered that he had gallstone pancreatitis, something the Belville hospital wasn't equipped to treat.

"I do labs on him, I get labs, and the labs come back, and I'm at the computer, and I have one of those 'Oh, crap' moments. If that stone doesn't spontaneously come out and doesn't resolve itself, that fluid just builds up, backs up into the liver, backs up into the pancreas, and starts to shut down those organs. His bloodwork even showed that his kidneys were shutting down."

Kakli told Begnaud that his patient was dying right in front of him. Wilkinson needed a higher level of care, but with hospitals across Texas and much of the South overwhelmed with COVID patients, there was no place for him.

Kakli recalled making multiple phone calls to other facilities, only to get a lot of, "sorry … sorry … sorry," in reply. Places had the specialists to do the procedure, but because of how sick he was Wilkinson needed intensive care, and they didn't have an ICU bed to put him in.

"Then I'm at my computer and, I'm just like, scratching my head, and I get this thought in my head: I'm like, 'What if I put this on Facebook or something, maybe somebody can help out?' One doctor messaged me: 'Hey, I'm in Missouri. Last time I checked, we have ICU beds. We can do this, call this number.' The next guy messages me, he's a GI specialist, he goes, 'I'm in Austin. I can do his procedure, get him over.' I said, 'Okay great, let's go.' He texts me back five minutes later: 'I'm sorry. I can't get administrative approval to accept him, we're full.'"

For nearly seven hours Wilkinson waited in an ER bed at Belville.

"I had that thought in my head: 'I need to get his mother here right now,'" Kakli said. "I said, 'If he doesn't get this procedure done, he is going to die.'

"I also had to have the discussion with him. ''Dan,' I said, 'if your heart stops in front of me right here, what do you want me to do? Do you want me to do everything we can to resuscitate you and try and get your heart back? If that were to happen, Dan, if I were to get you back, we're still in that position we're in right now.'"

"He said, 'I want to talk to my mom about that,'" Kakli told CBS News.

Finally, a bed opened up at the V.A. hospital in Houston. It was a helicopter ride away.

Kakli recalled Wilkinson saying, "Oh, man, I promised myself after Afghanistan I would never be in a helicopter again! … Oh, well, I guess."

Wilkinson was airlifted to Houston, but it was too late.

"They weren't able to do the procedure on him because it had been too long," his mother told Begnaud. "They] told me that they had seen air pockets in his intestines, which means that they were already starting to die off. They told me that I had to make a decision, and I knew how Danny felt; he didn't want to be that way. And, so, we were all in agreement that we had to let him go."

Roughly 24 hours after he walked into the emergency room, Daniel Wilkinson died at the age of 46.

Kakli told Begnaud that if it weren't for the COVID crisis, the procedure for Wilkinson would have taken 30 minutes, and he'd have been back out the door.

"I've never lost a patient from this diagnosis, ever," Kakli said. "We know what needs to be done and we know how to treat it, and we get them to where they need to go. I'm scared that the next patient that I see is someone that I can't get to where they need to get to go.

"We are playing musical chairs, with 100 people and 10 chairs," he said. "When the music stops, what happens? People from all over the world come to Houston to get medical care and, right now, Houston can't take care of patients from the next town over. That's the reality."

As of last night, there were 102 people waiting for an ICU bed in the greater Houston area.

Harris County Judge Lina Hidalgo told Begnaud that she was prepared to open a field hospital, but as of Friday morning, hospitals in the Houston area were telling her they had extra beds — but not enough nurses. Seven hundred nurses arrived last week, but it's still not enough to meet the demand.

[teledad]

Attachment 384151

Good study, thanks for posting. Cheat code: BNT162b2 = Pfizer, ChAdOx1 = AstraZeneca.

[ill-advised strategy]

Maybe there are honest arguments. Too bad we're not really getting them in this thread.

Do you have a smartphone? Your privacy and the potential for it to be abused is way more related to that than having an ID to go into a bar or restaurant or other place of private business.

Yeah, the tech-surveillance big-business/big-govt complex is something that makes me nervous…and I don’t think it’s an unreasonable nervousness, coming from the point of view of my generally abnormal and poorly-regarded values…valuing shits and grins more than hard work…valuing free time more than money, etc. Example: sometimes people seem to get really personally annoyed that I recreate a lot and work an odd, light schedule and don’t have kids. I’ve had numerous interactions with people who are genuinely butthurt that I ski every day, or ride motorcycles a lot…walk my dog in the middle of the day “don’t you work?”…etc. So the idea that my life belongs to them, that I owe the system 50 hours of labor a week and to parent several future laborers… I have encountered that way too much to discount how many people feel that way…and I think, for me, those interactions put a kind of sinister edge on the collectivism in our culture.

Plus, I drive for a living so I lived in the govt/business hours-of-service scheme: 70 hour workweek, 14 hour work days. I worked in the forest service doing 16 hour days 14 days on, 2 off. No concern in those systems about any aspect of the human being except his production of labor. I now accept working with like 7 cameras on me, I have to break rules to go pee sometimes. It’s not a stretch at all to imagine more control just further penning people into these systems that only view us in terms of squeezing maximum production out of us.. The amazon warehouse time-on-task stuff…the way the algorithms allocate labor budgets at my wife’s corporate job…there’s so much where I see how the powers in control have ZERO concern about overall quality of life for people in the working class. It’s like, basically, or lives are meaningless to the systems managing this society except for trying to wring the maximum amount of labor and consumerism out of us, get our votes, and keep us good and tired so we don’t get scary and wild with our free time….or somehow fail to support ourselves, or live too long past retirement age.

And now you add another layer of control, based on public health. The nervousness has real roots…it has bullshit roots too, but even those are fertilized by all the exploitative tendencies surrounding us.

I think we’re in a weird spot in this country because it’s not like Europe or Canada where there’s institutionalized dignity and respect for regular working people, so they trust their government is actually operating with their best interest as a goal. But it’s also not like China where the people have just given up fighting the malicious government control because they’ve lost the battle long ago.

We have businesses and government trying stuff all the time that’s really not in the interest of regular people and we haven’t stopped trying to fight it yet…so the whole thing is so complicated and ugly with the huge variety of different trust levels in these institutions and huge disparities in how all this is being perceived and handled.

Anyway, I think under those circumstances I do see where adding another layer of tracking and identification meets with hard opposition. People should just get their fucking shots, but I really wish they’d do it on their own because it’s good sensible science instead of more heavy handed approaches.

[Buster Highmen]

yep and I CHOOSE to go there right? I dont HAVE to....a lot of you are missing that simple distinction it seems.

We start with restaurants and concerts, it slowly slips to Costcos and other retail places, then, Walmart falls prey to it...what do those IDless follks do now? Please enlighten me oh wise ones...

We requiring VAX ID's when we arrest folks? Before they enter into General population in prison? Not that i've heard...

The things that are disconnected in your arguments mostly have to do with the poor's access to restaurants and bars. I don't really understand that.

Access to grocery stores for the poor is an issue, but that could be addressed by improving access to vax and associated ids. Again, there is legal groundwork for this.

But I think I'm done. I don't find any of your arguments convincing, just obsessive.

[Flounder]

yep and I CHOOSE to go there right? I dont HAVE to....a lot of you are missing that simple distinction it seems.

We start with restaurants and concerts, it slowly slips to Costcos and other retail places, then, Walmart falls prey to it...what do those IDless follks do now? Please enlighten me oh wise ones...

We requiring VAX ID's when we arrest folks? Before they enter into General population in prison? Not that i've heard...

Every place you listed is a choice. Go off grid and live self sufficiently if you’re so worried about this. You want to participate in the benefits of society, well there’s some responsibilities associated in order to do so.

You want to get all worked up about something how about making sure all the states provide easy ways to get everyone a vaccine? Vaccine and card are free. Plenty of good examples (mostly liberal states) where states are using mobile clinics, partnering with businesses and schools, and other ways to make sure the poor people you care so much about can get their shot and vax card.