To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[wkd-rdr]

any updates?

My arm a little sore, otherwise no side effects.
All body aches are accounted for, from other causes.

Took the night off of work, but much better today. Had another spat of chills and aches last night, but took a gummie and finally was able to sleep.
It was about 30 hours of ickiness, but.. I'm fucking immune now! (I know, in 10 -14 days).

[MontuckyFried]

This right here is my favorite part. The part where MF equates himself to a world renowned infectious disease expert. Please do go on MF. Don't let the TGR naysayer impede your march toward infamy.

#nextlevelhubris

Not equating myself, man. Trying (apparently unsuccessfully) to make the point that if THOSE guys are allowed to have evolving points of view based on what they discover, surely we can too, right?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app

[wooley12]

No, worms can have a POV

[huckbucket]

You should just stop while you're ahead. Your 40K foot spitballing is NOTHING LIKE what career experts in the field are doing. You size them up based on what you read in reviews and the soundbites you consume on TV while knowing NOTHING AT ALL about the substantial science behind the decisions you see them make. If you want to give them a pass for their evolving narrative, then do so because it's the god damn scientific method but fer chrissake don't think that the hypothesis formulation and testing that they do is anything at all like what's happening in your head and on a ski messaging board. There's very little in science/medicine that can be spit balled.

[skaredshtles]

Come on, Montucky - come clean. Please enlighten us on the candidates that you have voted for over the last couple decades that *supported* any of these things you say you're in favor of...

Universal healthcare: which ones?
Improving national health: which ones?
Improving infrastructure in our cities: which ones?

Or should the free market take care of all these?

[char_]

You should just stop while you're ahead. Your 40K foot spitballing is NOTHING LIKE what career experts in the field are doing. You size them up based on what you read in reviews and the soundbites you consume on TV while knowing NOTHING AT ALL about the substantial science behind the decisions you see them make. If you want to give them a pass for their evolving narrative, then do so because it's the god damn scientific method but fer chrissake don't think that the hypothesis formulation and testing that they do is anything at all like what's happening in your head and on a ski messaging board. There's very little in science/medicine that can be spit balled.

My wife is a doctor. At one point we were discussing something health related and I was sort of doing what Montucky is doing and she said something to the effect of "I've been studying this stuff for years now. You don't have a baseline of knowledge to debate this with me and are making assumptions that are not grounded in the basic facts surrounding this issue."

It would be like me telling a PHD electrical engineer how to design a better OLED panel. It's just crazy when you step back and think for a second.

[riser4]

"And today's Dunning-Kruger award goes to..."

[MontuckyFried]

Alright. Let me spell this out for the morans here as simply as possible. A hudge % of non-elderly COVID deaths had underlying comorbidities. Namely obesity, heart problems (often related to obesity), diabetes (common in obese people), etc. I am NOT saying nobody else is at risk. Just that those are some of the HIGHEST at risk.

If you REALLY want to protect yourself from COVID, along with diseases in general, while also potentially saving yourself from a heart attack, organ failure, and more, then yeah. Skip the giant bucket of KFC and start making some real, change in your life.

I am NOT making an argument against masks, distancing, not traveling, and everything else you guys are saying. I'm simply saying that the number 1 thing that YOU can do for YOURSELF is get thee in good health. Wear a mask or whatever you desire in an effort to save others. However, the results of your good health become secondary as well. If YOU don't contract COVID thanks to your now improved health, it reduces your chances of spreading it to others. Win/win.

[huckbucket]

My wife is a doctor. At one point we were discussing something health related and I was sort of doing what Montucky is doing and she said something to the effect of "I've been studying this stuff for years now. You don't have a baseline of knowledge to debate this with me and are making assumptions that are not grounded in the basic facts surrounding this issue."

It would be like me telling a PHD electrical engineer how to design a better OLED panel. It's just crazy when you step back and think for a second.

EXACTLY! I've told this story before but it bears repeating. Back at the cusp of Y2K I remember my wife and I having dinner with our neighbors/friends across the hall from us in the apt bldg. He was an IT expert. I'm a PhD geneticist. The topic of impending Y2K doom came up and I said to him ... "hey has anyone ever thought of rolling back the date on the computers in questions so they don't know it's gonna be the year 2000?" I wasn't joking. I was just being fucking stupid. Well, he bitch slapped me hard and rightly pointed out that I must have balls of fucking steel to think that my dumbass, non-IT brain could figure out this global problem in 10 words or less. Learned a very very important lesson that night.

Hey MF, tell me how your steady diet of 250 character or less info-bites isn't akin to those who choose to eat at McDonalds.

[huckbucket]

BOUNDARY

Alright. Let me spell this out for the morans here as simply as possible. A hudge % of non-elderly COVID deaths had underlying comorbidities. Namely obesity, heart problems (often related to obesity), diabetes (common in obese people), etc. I am NOT saying nobody else is at risk. Just that those are some of the HIGHEST at risk.

If you REALLY want to protect yourself from COVID, along with diseases in general, while also potentially saving yourself from a heart attack, organ failure, and more, then yeah. Skip the giant bucket of KFC and start making some real, change in your life.

I am NOT making an argument against masks, distancing, not traveling, and everything else you guys are saying. I'm simply saying that the number 1 thing that YOU can do for YOURSELF is get thee in good health. Wear a mask or whatever you desire in an effort to save others. However, the results are secondary. If YOU don't contract COVID thanks to your now improved health, it reduces your chances of spreading it to others. Win/win.

BOUNDARY

No one would argue with the above. If you stay in that lane then you'll do just fine.

[riser4]

HA !
I like the way you think.

Can’t tell you how relieved I am to start this process. Maybe I can still salvage some of my own ski season. Been consumed with taking care of her this winter.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Don't tell me that. My ego doesn't need to get any bigger. I did however think it was a pretty clever double entendre.

[old goat]

My wife is a doctor. At one point we were discussing something health related and I was sort of doing what Montucky is doing and she said something to the effect of "I've been studying this stuff for years now. You don't have a baseline of knowledge to debate this with me and are making assumptions that are not grounded in the basic facts surrounding this issue."

It would be like me telling a PHD electrical engineer how to design a better OLED panel. It's just crazy when you step back and think for a second.

And the average doctor is out of their depth discussing this stuff with an epidemiologist or PhD immunologist or virologist. But we try.

I don't know about the fermented food thing but it's no secret that Americans could eat better--and I don't mean artisan pizza, espresso, and sourdough bread. As far as covid it's a little late for that now. Maybe in time for 2-3 pandemics down the road, if there are enough of us left to sustain a pandemic.

[char_]

BOUNDARY



BOUNDARY

No one would argue with the above. If you stay in that lane then you'll do just fine.

Nah, the number one thing we can all to not die from COVID is to not get it in the first place.

[Mofro261]

Not equating myself, man. Trying (apparently unsuccessfully) to make the point that if THOSE guys are allowed to have evolving points of view based on what they discover, surely we can too, right?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app

Look, you may have had an epiphany last week while waiting in the line up for Chik fil A that maybe if there weren't so many fatties in front of you you might get that sandwich faster and maybe Heart Disease wouldn't be our #1 killer, cancer our #2, and COVID-19 now our #3? And gee, we should do something about lifestyle now that we have a preventable, congatious disease?

That nobody with half a wit hadn't been already been on point with this since March, with how US and Western lifestyle was a factor in how bad things would get if we didn't address transmission? None of this has been "evolving." Your uninformed ramblings are just that- uninformed.

[jono]

If YOU don't contract COVID thanks to your now improved health, it reduces your chances of spreading it to others. Win/win.

That there is what's getting you in trouble: there is no evidence that by eating healthy I can reduce my chances of becoming infectious (even if it does help me improve my COVID outcome if infected, which is still speculative for a lot of the things you've suggested). That would be sterilizing immunity. Without that none of the other measures are going to stop spread and therefore can't prevent me from collaborating in killing someone else, either because they had higher risk or worse luck.

That's where so many people have called you out for taking a selfish position on this in the past: keeping yourself alive is good, but that alone is not as reliable at preventing spread as actually not getting the virus in the first place.

[huckbucket]

That there is what's getting you in trouble: there is no evidence that by eating healthy I can reduce my chances of becoming infectious (even if it does help me improve my COVID outcome if infected, which is still speculative for a lot of the things you've suggested). That would be sterilizing immunity. Without that none of the other measures are going to stop spread and therefore can't prevent me from collaborating in killing someone else, either because they had higher risk or worse luck.

That's where so many people have called you out for taking a selfish position on this in the past: keeping yourself alive is good, but that alone is not as reliable at preventing spread as actually not getting the virus in the first place.

Thanks. I missed that little zinger he threw in at the end.

[Boissal]

EXACTLY! I've told this story before but it bears repeating. Back at the cusp of Y2K I remember my wife and I having dinner with our neighbors/friends across the hall from us in the apt bldg. He was an IT expert. I'm a PhD geneticist. The topic of impending Y2K doom came up and I said to him ... "hey has anyone ever thought of rolling back the date on the computers in questions so they don't know it's gonna be the year 2000?" I wasn't joking. I was just being fucking stupid. Well, he bitch slapped me hard and rightly pointed out that I must have balls of fucking steel to think that my dumbass, non-IT brain could figure out this global problem in 10 words or less. Learned a very very important lesson that night.

Hey MF, tell me how your stead diet of 250 character or less info-bites isn't akin to those who choose to eat at McDonalds.

This shit happens to Ms Boissal and I every fucking time we have a family dinner. Her parents have a general distrust for medical science and will listen to anyone other than the 2 of us who have spent the last 15+ years studying and working in the field. Their favorite source of medical advice is their other daughter who is a hypochondriac self-diagnosed with a variety of exotic ailments. She is way into "alternative" treatment options, anything FDA-approved is "unnatural" and can safely be replaced with a lemon juice and cayenne cleanse (unless she needs to focus in which case she'll pop an adderall or two).
She successfully managed to get her dad off statins and alpha blockers by convincing him he was experiencing rare side effects (he wasn't, he's just a giant wuss) and would never be able to quit if he stayed on those meds for too long. Ms Boissal blew up in her face, pointing out that the price of getting off treatment would be waking up 6x a night to piss until a massive heart attack puts ends things. SIL stood her ground, citing her extensive research on the subject (3 minutes on google) and claiming it was at least as valuable as a medical degree + 10 years.

WTF do you even say to that? Facts don't give a shit about your opinion. Science doesn't give two fucks about what you think. And yet...

[Ted Striker]

I've told this story before but it bears repeating. Back at the cusp of Y2K I remember my wife and I having dinner with our neighbors/friends across the hall from us in the apt bldg. The topic of impending Y2K doom came up and I said to him...

"Hey has anyone ever thought of writing a virus so that when there's a bank transaction, and the interests are computed in the thousands a day in fractions of a cent, which are usually rounded off, it takes those remainders and puts them into your account?"

"Yeah. They did this in Superman III"

"What a good movie"

"A bunch of hackers did this in the 70s and one of them got busted"

"So they check for this now?"

"No, you see, Initech is so backed up with all the software we're updating for the year 2000, they'd never notice"

FIFY

[skaredshtles]

Alright. Let me spell this out for the morans here as simply as possible.

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
She successfully managed to get her dad off statins and alpha blockers by convincing him he was experiencing rare side effects (he wasn't, he's just a giant wuss) and would never be able to quit if he stayed on those meds for too long. Ms Boissal blew up in her face, pointing out that the price of getting off treatment would be waking up 6x a night to piss until a massive heart attack puts ends things. SIL stood her ground, citing her extensive research on the subject (3 minutes on google) and claiming it was at least as valuable as a medical degree + 10 years.

WTF do you even say to that?

This is what you do:

[muted]

I was arguing with my wife that elite athletes, like a quarterback, who have to think fast are smart people. Not book smart, but smart enough to process and react to things fast in a high stress environment, and yes they could be dumb as shit when it comes to everything else. But you can't be a total dummy and react quick. Right?

The overall impression from that argument, which was stretched out over days, was not how I was wrong and why, but how I should not come up with my own conclusions that seemed obvious to me, on things my wife has studied and new well, as it insulted the very core of her being. I'm only smart enough to not never do that again (to her at least).

[huckbucket]

Always liked this variant of Dunning-Kruger;

[XXX-er]

Alright. Let me spell this out for the morans here as simply as possible. A hudge % of non-elderly COVID deaths had underlying comorbidities. Namely obesity, heart problems (often related to obesity), diabetes (common in obese people), etc. I am NOT saying nobody else is at risk. Just that those are some of the HIGHEST at risk.

If you REALLY want to protect yourself from COVID, along with diseases in general, while also potentially saving yourself from a heart attack, organ failure, and more, then yeah. Skip the giant bucket of KFC and start making some real, change in your life.

I am NOT making an argument against masks, distancing, not traveling, and everything else you guys are saying. I'm simply saying that the number 1 thing that YOU can do for YOURSELF is get thee in good health. Wear a mask or whatever you desire in an effort to save others. However, the results of your good health become secondary as well. If YOU don't contract COVID thanks to your now improved health, it reduces your chances of spreading it to others. Win/win.

No doubt being healthy will help you survive COVID but I don't think your level of health has anything to do with whether or not you aquire covid, in fact somebody with higher V02 max will be able to take in more air with more COVID init

It would take YEARs of lifestyle change for America to benifit from better health by which time all those people will be dead

its way too late to skip the large bucket of KFC and expect to dodge COVID

but KFC could probably use the money, just wear the fucking mask as you buy the big bucket

[Toadman]

Come with me if you want to live....

https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/s...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[bennymac]

MF you kicked off this latest bout of dunking on you by implying that had we spent the last year promoting healthy living - including keeping gyms open - then that would have been a better approach to curbing the pandemic.

Doing just that (Dr Fauci saying eat more veggies/get more exercise! Everybody head to the gym!) I bet we could have seen, on average, a 4-5lb weight loss and an increase of 20 extra minutes of physical activity per week and 400,000 more dead and many more long haulers and devastated families and a fucked economy etc