To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[The AD]

Last night, it was 2funky claiming that we're all afraid where I thought of the avie gear analogy. It's just a matter of being prepared.

Ultimately it's about mitigating risk, but "why are you people trying to mitigate risk?" doesn't have quite the same zing as "why are you people all living in fear?"

[altasnob]

Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE). It's a thing. Not sure yet if it applies to covid but time will tell.

From Trevor Bedford's twitter:

Did vaccination drive the evolution of variant (Alpha, Beta, etc...) SARS-CoV-2 viruses? This is a legitimate scientific question, but after looking into it I don't believe this to be the case

https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1462816217794695170

[jono]

Those are the numbers from a government agency. If you have other sources then post it up. For sure there are multiple variables.

I'm not questioning the data I'm asking how you imagine it to be applicable, let alone conclusive. Specifically, it's one measure which is affected by confounding factors, many of which have been listed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confounding

[dunfree]

Ultimately it's about mitigating risk, but "why are you people trying to mitigate risk?" doesn't have quite the same zing as "why are you people all living in fear?"

Minnesota data was 0.0% fatality rate for fully vaxxed <50s, iirc. Some here on this forum are older, but it didn’t get too much worse until a fair bit more advanced in age. That’s effective elimination, not mitigation, and makes the whole thing so bizarre. Get vaxxed, stay vaxxed, move the fuck on. No need for living in fear for yourself or performative bullshit machismo.

[jono]

Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE). It's a thing. Not sure yet if it applies to covid but time will tell.

This is how you conclude that vaccination during a pandemic is more trouble than it's worth? Maybe, possibly, could be applicable to COVID--so, in a general sense, the possibility of a flaw means more to you than the actual evidence of benefit?

[Mofro261]

Those are the numbers from a government agency. If you have other sources then post it up. For sure there are multiple variables.

Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE). It's a thing. Not sure yet if it applies to covid but time will tell.

You may want to read up on ADE before throwing that statement out there. (Psst: it's the opposite of what drives adaptive mutation, and happens with conservation of sequence motifs)

[::: :::]

I liken this issue to trying to get people stop smoking marijuana or cigarettes. Rules are meaningless. You have to take the high road and continually try to politely educate them with pertinent, fact-based, studies. Let them come to their own conclusions without giving them the impression you are "telling them what to do."

my kid doesn't know what it's like to go to a restaurant with a smoking section, same for a plane ride...much less a dive bar or peeler

so, unlike your take, my takeaway is that rules actually do work

we didn't ban smoking so people can still harm/kill themselves if they wish (my brother still smokes); but they do not do it where they can harm/kill others (ie inside, esp staff in those places)

the other lesson: the science was correct



same for helmet rules in a variety of milieus

Except rules literally did reduce smoking.

I guess i'm way late to this party

sorry for belaboring it -- i'll catch up on the reading

[SumJongGuy]

Ya the antivax bullshit is a lot harder to pull off to an audience of life long skiers... Folks who grew up in neighborhoods with good schools and ample resources to pursue higher education, got good jobs as scientists, doctors, lab researchers, etc.. DOD's way below the paygrade required to debate this science as are many. That bullshit flies better in the 4wd and gun nut circles..

[::: :::]

We've turned COVID vaccination into a litmus test similar to abortion, gay marriage, or immigration. What side are you on? Just another reason for us to hate one another. The lines have been drawn. We're totally fucked.

the "we" in your sentence is the selfish group that doesn't think the community deserves the respect of the individual

[LongShortLong]

For Altasnob and anyone else afflicted by what-if-ism and what-about-ism:

Mandates work. When we have them, we get 99% vaccination. Here's the LA school district. The airlines reported similar results. If you do a modicum of "research" the answers are out there.
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...s-unvaccinated

[MagnificentUnicorn]

What if, hypothetically, mandates make 60% vaccinated and 40% unvacinated in year 1, but that rate remains the same for the next decade. And then lets say without mandates you have 40% vaccinated in year 1 but that increases to 90% in year 10. What is better in the long term?

I'm not saying my hunch is right. I am saying I don't know, and neither does anyone else. I am reading how the anti-vax movement has moved beyond the US to places like S Africa, which is prone to variant production. COVID may really bring the end to mankind, but not because the disease is deadly but the dichotomy it has created worldwide. What if mandates help stop COVID but then allow other diseases, like measles, to rebound because they create a whole new class of anti-vaxer? What happens in the next pandemic when a huge swath of earth goes into the pandemic now anti-vax?

Omg! The world is so scary


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

FYI back to vaccine breakthrough and viral burden.

Despite early studies showing less burden among the vaxxed, and while Delta infection appears to have equal levels of viral load based on rtPCR cyle threshold values, vaccinated individuals are much less (NOT slightly less) likely to have live virus recovered in cell infectivity assays. Yes, you can amplify the RNA, but the viral particles themselves are compromised.

So shorter duration of a trsansmission period, 5 days vs 7 with peak viremia, and the virus produced is compromised for re-infection. (Possible hypoth here is a combo of antibody mediated disruption by virus binding, cytopathic effects of cytokines, fractured genomic RNA).

A population (not individual) reduction of infection, still holding 5+fold, a 50% increase in asymptomatic infection over non-vaxxed, and lower chance of onward transmission via loss of virus viablity even with similar "viral load".

Read this 2funky, you’re a smart guy.


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[skaredshtles]

You may want to read up on ADE before throwing that statement out there. (Psst: it's the opposite of what drives adaptive mutation, and happens with conservation of sequence motifs)

I don't know why you're arguing with him - he's obviously done his research and is now an internet-expert in immunology/virology/other-ologies.

[SumJongGuy]

I don't know why you're arguing with him - he's obviously done his research and is now an internet-expert in immunology/virology/other-ologies.

I've got my own theories about stuff, like was wearing masks to PREVENT spread back in March of 2020 long before the experts flipped from the old school WHO position on masks.

But, end of the day, my working epidemiologist friend's opinion is what I go by with regard to pretty much everything pandemic related..

[teletech]

Damn you guys are going for it today.
DOD probably follows this guy on twitter. https://mobile.twitter.com/RWMaloneM...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Most of his info is similar to what this guy is spouting.
Hospitals are still getting whacked in Maine. Local hospital stopped all elective surgeries. 11 covid patients there today. The big regional hospital used to take all the severe cases but too full to take them. Got an email from them that basically said if you need hospital care expect long waits.
Good time to be a per diem nurse, getting big bonuses to work shifts. Full time nurses burnt out.
Keep hearing on Spotify and the local radio station: please get vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine. This is ad is paid for by Pfizer. Something about that ad is icky to me.
Watched the alpinist the other day, great movie. Made me think how much time is wasted staring at our phones telling people how to live Instead of enjoying life.
Peace out bitches

[Buster Highmen]

Made me think how much time is wasted staring at our phones telling people how to live Instead of enjoying life.

I agree, though the irony here is strong for some.

[twat]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.new...658434%3famp=1


So i read from the article those vaccines are fake! Because if he took ten "real" shots he would be dead accordingly to what i read on zhe internet.... because 10microchips would clog up everything.... and just imagine 10×updates.... without 5g internet omg

This guy is going to be the uberborg
So much mindcontrol in a fake pandemic, initiated by the fakestaate

It is all the clintons fault, baby bloodsucking vampires.
Wait xi jin pings fault.... wait no vladimir putins fault nonono kim jong uns fault!!!!!

[twat]

Maybe macron & merkl did it

[SumJongGuy]

I already suspected that there were folks going around getting vaxed multiple times when they were giving away $100 visa cards to everyone getting vaxxed at county locations.. They weren't doing much to verify names, especially of poor, homeless, undocumented, etc... Do I care? Not really. Way worse to say you're vaxxed when you aren't than to grift extra freebies for getting vaxxed..

[SumJongGuy]

Exactly one year to the date my wife came home from work shivering, collapsed in the bathroom/master bedroom doorway and had a seizure before a 911 ride to the hospital diagnosed COVID+ she's now at urgent care for a similar headache, earache with a pulse, and FEVER. We're both fully vaxed and boosted. This time if she's + I'm not moving out to the living room.

Her work office is a bit of a shitshow.. There is no vax check.. They only wear masks in common areas (most of the time... SMDH..) People walk in to other peoples' offices forgetting to put on their mask all the time. Elevators... 6th floor office... total shitshow...

Full disclosure... Both last year and this I went skiing the weekend before so it could also be totally my fault...

[uglymoney]

Arrgggh...hope it is fast and mild.

Shingrix 2 yesterday on a whim. Ski weekend plans got canceled because marginal conditions and I was due, found an appointment at last minute. Sore arm and general malaise today. Joints sore this morning until I got the ibuprofen started. Similar to Shingrix 1. That gift kept giving for 3 days.

Also scheduled full colonoscopy for February yesterday. Really not looking forward to that and in my younger years I for sure would have blown it off for a few years.

50 kinda blows. Better than the alternative though. And rain is better than tornados.

[riser4]

Arrgggh...hope it is fast and mild.

Shingrix 2 yesterday on a whim. Ski weekend plans got canceled because marginal conditions and I was due, found an appointment at last minute. Sore arm and general malaise today. Joints sore this morning until I got the ibuprofen started. Similar to Shingrix 1. That gift kept giving for 3 days.

Also scheduled full colonoscopy for February yesterday. Really not looking forward to that and in my younger years I for sure would have blown it off for a few years.

50 kinda blows. Better than the alternative though. And rain is better than tornados.

Don't put off the scope. It could save your life.

[SumJongGuy]

Arrgggh...hope it is fast and mild.

Well no fever at urgent care so just ear ache treated, they didn't think a COVID test was needed. If the fever returns we'll do a home test..

[uglymoney]

Don't put off the scope. It could save your life.

I won't. I think they will fine me $250 for canceling. I want to put this behind me

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[::: :::]

I want to put this behind me

Don’t worry; it’s not a scattershot crap shoot…


[i’m headed towards 1st as well in the new year]