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  1. #17426
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    Dec 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    are you still fucking little boys is the more pressing question
    Some of the boomers in here need to literally take a lap (step away from the computer and walk around the block)

  2. #17427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I agree what we did was a joke in January 2020, sadly, and we paid for it. It was by Chinese design and American incompetence. We weren't testing and we weren't even symptom screening. Quarantine should have been the order of the day and it wasn't.

    I'm advocating for better: anyone transiting or originating from the region banned or quarantined. Probably it needs to last about 120 days, evaluate every 30 days. If Omicron becomes widespread in the US, end the ban. If Omicron is deemed a non-threat, end the ban. Govs don't follow this. Look at Canada, they only lifted the US travel ban in August.

    Unlike 2020, there is at least a blanket testing requirement, which will catch the majority.
    I don’t disagree with that - it sounds reasonable, if perhaps not implementable in our current environment. I’m not against travel bans, per se, just the way they’ve been implemented in the us which penalizes the hoi polloi indefinitely but allows the rich and famous superspreaders to flit about. and I’m against repeating that mistake at this point

  3. #17428
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    I don’t disagree with that - it sounds reasonable, if perhaps not implementable in our current environment. I’m not against travel bans, per se, just the way they’ve been implemented in the us which penalizes the hoi polloi indefinitely but allows the rich and famous superspreaders to flit about. and I’m against repeating that mistake at this point
    Yep.. Enacting bans based on WHERE folks are coming from and vet everyone coming from there the same..... opposed to banning/vetting/allowing based on status. The latter is racist as fuck..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  4. #17429
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    Aug 2020
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    1,218
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I must have missed your sarcasm
    Like I said. You can go fuck yourself.

  5. #17430
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    Like I said. You can go fuck yourself.
    Ah ha well maybe you did get my sarcasm ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  6. #17431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    I mentioned it a few pages ago, and Summit's said the same thing, but viewing travel bans as having a binary elimination/no elimination outcome doesn't work with COVID.

    Travel bans buy time for the medical science and medical treatment fields to respond effectively and knowledgeably. That's what you're buying. The policy question is how much you have to pay for what you're buying - that much hasn't changed no matter how long the pandemic has gone on.

    If your society finds the ban unjust and protests the controls (which become superspreader events in themselves), or mental health or the economy goes in the shitter, or the travel ban ineffectively targets a cohort, or citizens/PRs are effectively banned from returning home for an extended period (which consequently causes immigration and border issues in whatever country they're now stuck in) or there's poor or no attempts made to assist the origin region that you're banning (e.g. access to vaccines, treatments, and medical/PPE/testing resources in developing countries), or the travel ban fosters general mistrust between countries that spills over to other policy issues...
    Well of course they aren’t binary. Neither are “lockdowns”. The outcomes are dependent on the details of the policy and the time of implementation. US policy has usually been trailing. “Lockdowns” and “travel bans” followed collapse of demand.

  7. #17432
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    Oct 2008
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    valley of the heart's delight
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Worried about dirt immigrants 1400 miles away taking their white collar college grad job...

    Worried about same dirt poor immigrants giving them COVID but won't wear a mask or get the vaccine...

    Did I miss something??
    Close. You missed they can't count. Else they'd notice that >99% of visitors are not dirt poor immigrants. And maybe that Covid can't tell income status or nationality (Biden's travel ban will fail as badly as Trump's).

    If we cared about variants, the right travel ban would be to close the airports, implement Australia's quarantine system, then reopen airports to vital travel with quarantine. But we don't really care, and that won't happen.

  8. #17433
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    Aug 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Ah ha well maybe you did get my sarcasm ?
    Wasn't sarcasm. Like I said, you can go fuck yourself. Double go fuck yourself for not owning it.

  9. #17434
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    Close. You missed they can't count. Else they'd notice that >99% of visitors are not dirt poor immigrants. And maybe that Covid can't tell income status or nationality (Biden's travel ban will fail as badly as Trump's).
    It didn’t get to us ski towns early in the pandemic because of the poors. But it killed the poors there. That is to say globe trotting global “elitists” are great at spreading the disease they may not fall too. It does care about income, because income is a proxy.

  10. #17435
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    Dec 2004
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    Where the sheets have no stains
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    If we cared about variants, the right travel ban would be to close the airports, implement Australia's quarantine system, then reopen airports to vital travel with quarantine. But we don't really care, and that won't happen.
    Case in point, I had to talk my sister out of a visit next weekend. She is now freaked that if Omicron becomes a threat we won't see each other for a while. Then she starts whining that its not fair that she and her husband have retired but can't really travel right now. I was the asshole to remind her that 800K Americans have less to worry about now cause they are dead.

    We care as long as it isn't inconvenient.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  11. #17436
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    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    Well of course they aren’t binary. Neither are “lockdowns”. The outcomes are dependent on the details of the policy and the time of implementation. US policy has usually been trailing. “Lockdowns” and “travel bans” followed collapse of demand.
    We never had lockdowns or travel bans


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  12. #17437
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    If all get vaccinated omnicron might be no problem.
    We have a problem and there is a solution.

    Lets watch portugal all together and then make a conclusion.

    If we go with freedom or freedom.


    Get poked!

  13. #17438
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    Oct 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Knows or should know exactly what I said in my post about the reality of SA vs the rest of Africa. SA reached an apparent endemic state and wasn't interested in mass vaccination on the individual level.


    Just like there is absolutely a consequence, cost, and deterrence for an individual deciding to stay home if sick, get tested, potentially being put in isolation if positive?

    The alternative is being a goddamned motherfucking selfish asshole, like the People's Republic of China.

    South Africa did the right thing. They aren't being punished. This is PUBLIC HEALTH POLICY, not behaviorism applied to nation states. And Ashish understands that.


    That's a policy question. You can do what you want but you have to incur the cost and political will. New Zealand could corall all foreign arrivals into busses and escort them in military guarded convoys to commandeered hotels guarded by soldiers with rifles and supplied with food. That is expensive, time consuming, and a bad look in America. So you can pick one. Bans or real quarantine paid for by the taxpayer.


    No, they have only said your strawman is not possible. Your strawman is that a travel ban will be completely effective. No expert thinks that. You then conclude that travel bans therefor don't work at all. Experts don't think that either.

    So let's agree:
    1. Poorly executed travel bans don't work.
    2. Well executed travel bands buy some time in the short term but should not be sustained.


    You literally can, temporarily, to an extent.


    The time for that was in the past and is in the future, but right now, you have an emergent outbreak of a VOC. You can buy time to act, or you can say fuck it and take on the chin so that you feel morally warm and fuzzy in some other respect. Fuck that.

    I Like a lot of the information in this post - Thank you. You have addressed some hard issues, head-on.

    some of what has been addressed, is some of what I thought there is value in being careful not to argue semantics -
    we can call it 'travel restrictions' or we can call it 'travel ban' ; it is a 'devil-in-the-details' situation, where the terminology is a lot less important than the implementation...

    I understand the idea that US citizens shall not be ,,, infringed from returning home. I say forget that. travel internationally during a pandemic, serve quarantine.
    ( someone up-thread cited a negative test that developed clinical signs four days later ; That would not be a problem if the person was serving a fourteen-day quarantine. )

    some of the angst does feel like prior criticism of vaccination : If a measure does not provide absolute protection, some of the critics claim it is without merit, while offering no alternatives.
    ( I am uneasy to see the idea of post-infection immunity still being promoted by some. my friends who have chosen not to vaccinate for covid, have fundamentally changed our friendships. )

    again, Thank you for the information in this ^^^ post.


    Thank you. tj

  14. #17439
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    Oct 2008
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    valley of the heart's delight
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    It didn’t get to us ski towns early in the pandemic because of the poors. But it killed the poors there. That is to say globe trotting global “elitists” are great at spreading the disease they may not fall too. It does care about income, because income is a proxy.
    Yup

    Quote Originally Posted by nordekette View Post
    If all get vaccinated omnicron might be no problem.
    We have a problem and there is a solution.

    Lets watch portugal all together and then make a conclusion.

    If we go with freedom or freedom.


    Get poked!
    And get the booster when eligible. Somatic hypermutation is your friend. Almost certainly grants good protection from all Covid variants, and likely SARS-1 and maybe some other coronaviruses too. Somatic hypermutation is how your immune system adapts to variants it hasn't seen. Turns out viruses have been mutating since life began, and our immune systems "expect this" and have a good counter for anything repeatedly seen.

  15. #17440
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    not there
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    Booster on the way! Tripple vaxx against new variants.

    The new mutations were also on the previos ones. Just this time combined.

    Canada a head...... uuuhhhh
    How did that happen? ... hmmm

    2 omnicron cases confirmed in germany.
    1 in bavaria

  16. #17441
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Santiago Chile
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    1,719
    Chile to start vaccinating 3-6 year-olds (Sinovac). And: “Chile joins Venezuela, Colombia and neighbor Argentina in vaccinating children from age three.

    Nicaragua and Cuba are vaccinating toddlers as young as two.”

    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-...dren-aged.html

  17. #17442
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    Oct 2008
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    Wenatchee
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    14,601
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey E View Post
    Chile to start vaccinating 3-6 year-olds (Sinovac). And: “Chile joins Venezuela, Colombia and neighbor Argentina in vaccinating children from age three.

    Nicaragua and Cuba are vaccinating toddlers as young as two.”

    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-...dren-aged.html
    Well, first world countries are more progressive than here in the third world, from a public health standpoint


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  18. #17443
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,788
    26 hours out from my booster shot + flu shot. Last night was rough and my pup has no idea why I keep laying on the couch.

    Why is it that the covid shot leaves so much pain in the arm? I can barely lift it, worse than first 2 shots. Right arm with the flu shot is already back to normal. Just curious.

  19. #17444
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    EWA
    Posts
    22,004
    I had a dream last night that my house was full of unvaxxed people (I only learned this after they'd been staying with me for several days). I offered to take them to get jabbed but they refused so I kicked them out.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  20. #17445
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    Dec 2012
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    I can still smell Poutine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    I had a dream last night that my house was full of unvaxxed people (I only learned this after they'd been staying with me for several days). I offered to take them to get jabbed but they refused so I kicked them out.
    I approve this message.

  21. #17446
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In the swamp
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    11,124
    24 hours out from my Pfizer booster. Only had a headache yesterday from it. A pleasant surprise given that I felt worse after the flu shot and was pretty much in bed for 24 hours after Moderna #2.

  22. #17447
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    Dec 2008
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    Vacationland
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    Boosted with Moderna an hour ago. Had it mounted +1 so should work with my BSL


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  23. #17448
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    Dec 2012
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    I can still smell Poutine.
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    Pins on Balance!

  24. #17449
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    Mar 2012
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    The Bull City
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    Boosted with Moderna an hour ago. Had it mounted +1 so should work with my BSL


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Tech talk JONG!
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  25. #17450
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    9,850
    If they used a paper template yer gonna die.

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