To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[XXX-er]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...tion-1.6246167

some one who actulay did have a reaction which is a 1 in 100000 chance got vaxed with 5 smaller injections

[XXX-er]

So everyone in this thread has basically been calling the breakthrough case my family had bullshit. I posted directly from the Maine cdc website that breakthrough cases happen a lot more than you guys admit too. Now I’m a troll. Do you guys have a bunch of Pfizer stock?

No, everyone pointed out its still possible to get covid after being vaxed but you would be less likely to get really sick or die which is exactly what happened

you appear to be complaining because you got covid so we are sayin the vax worked as advertised be happy you didnt die or get real sick

I can't understand why you can't understand this ?

[DougW]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...tion-1.6246167

some one who actually did have a reaction which is a 1 in 100000 chance got vaxed with 5 smaller injections

don't think CBC did the math right , "Of the 22,231 individual reports (0.038% of all doses administered), 5,653 were considered serious (0.010% of all doses administered)." https://health-infobase.canada.ca/co...wV_KhU2Rl8NizA

0.01% is 1 in 10,000 which is very good

[old goat]

The goal of vaccination is to prevent severe disease and death and to prevent transmission. Covid vaccination has not accomplished the second goal because of the rushed vaccine schedule (which was appropriate given the circumstances) and because of inadequate numbers of people vaccinated.

Here's what the CDC says about polio vaccine effectiveness: "Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against polio; three doses are 99% to 100% effective.
A person is considered to be fully vaccinated if he or she has received:

four doses of any combination of IPV and tOPV, or
a primary series of at least three doses of IPV or trivalent oral poliovirus vaccine (tOPV)
AND

The last dose in either series should be given after 4 years of age and at least 6 months after the previous dose.
Duration of Protection
It is not known how long people who received IPV will be immune to poliovirus, but they are most likely protected for many"

Obviously polio and covid are different viruses, especially with regards to mutability, but note that with polio, full vaccination takes 4 years and 4 doses. Also, the reason polio is no longer transmitted in the US is twofold--it's a very effective vaccine AND nearly everyone is fully vaccinated meaning the chance of encountering someone with the virus is very close to zero. I would expect that if we can get the percent fully vaccinated--which may take 4-5 doses over years community transmission will be extremely low (unless a resistant strain develops). And that's with the current vaccine--there are still the options of a delta specific vaccine and a nasal vaccine.

Can you imagine what would happen today if there were a repeat of the Cutter incident--people paralyzed with polio from a bad batch of vaccine? What would happen if people died from a bad batch of Covid vaccine? (Yes, I know the chance is much less.) Vaccination would be shut down for a long time, possibly permanently, even if the cause was a manufacturing error and not an inherent property of the vaccine.

[skiJ]

The measurement system for the cases are roughly equal at point of measurement: only after cases are detected are they then determined to be breakthrough or not. So is it that there vaccination rates are higher amongst the elderly? Yes, for fully vaccinated rates it is 86% for 65+ cohort vs 73% for 12+ cohort, but do age based vaccination rates fully explain the bias within the breakthrough cases? No, I don't think so.

You don't need to test everyone to answer the question you pose. I think it is answered, but if I wanted a better answer, I would ask for the positivity rate of the breakthrough vs unvaccinated.

But I don't even need to do that because all you have to do is look at the deaths and the hospitalizations as those are much better datasets. The age bias trend between breakthrough and unvaccinated, exceeding age based vaccination rates, is present for dead, hospitalized, and infected.

agreed ^^^ tj

[Buster Highmen]

Understanding Breakthrough Infections Following mRNA SARS-CoV-2 Vaccination
Michael

Vaccines not only decrease transmission rates, but also decrease disease severity among individuals who do acquire infection.

Vaccinated people with breakthrough infections, including infection with the Delta variant, are less likely to develop symptoms, less likely to develop severe symptoms, more likely to recover from their illness quickly, and much less likely to require hospitalization compared with unvaccinated people.8,12

As of August 28, 2021, the age-adjusted rate of hospitalization among US adults aged 18 years or older was 83.6 per 100 000 for unvaccinated persons compared with 4.5 per 100 000 for fully vaccinated persons.13
.

That was an awful lot to read, so I selected the salient bits for those that seem to have missed them the first 20+ times around.

[Skidog]

You posted that the vaccines have been about 90% effective where you live, which seems pretty optimistic since most of the cases are delta. And that no one died in your family even though less than half were vaccinated. Did you all get Pfizer? Should I own stock?

I mean everyone dies from covid right?

Pretty sure if you scroll back to the very start youll see the most likely to get sick and die are still old people and immune compromised. Funny how that all "circles back"

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

[jono]

I mean everyone dies from covid right?

Pretty sure if you scroll back to the very start youll see the most likely to get sick and die are still old people and immune compromised. Funny how that all "circles back"

So now I shouldn't buy Pfizer stock? You two need to get together on this, the messaging is very unclear.

[jono]

That was an awful lot to read, so I selected the salient bits for those that seem to have missed them the first 20+ times around.

Thanks for that. Conversely, the second and third paragraphs seem like good stuff for people looking to cover new ground (or get more specific, at least): 3.5x higher chance of transmission from unvaxed vs. vaxed, for example, and lower odds of harboring an asymptomatic infection for the vaccinated. Both huge justifications for requiring vaccination to slow spread.

Thanks mofro!

My layman's imagination thinks it makes sense that asymptomatic infection would be less likely when the immune system is specifically ready to target the outside of the virus, since the immune response itself would be quicker/more likely (thus symptoms) as well as resulting in a lower viral load. Which might be distinct from a broader response (like convalescents) which might not flare up as suddenly if it also targets inner pieces of the virus...does that make any sense?

[bodywhomper]

The goal of vaccination is to prevent severe disease and death and to prevent transmission. Covid vaccination has not accomplished the second goal because of the rushed vaccine schedule (which was appropriate given the circumstances) and because of inadequate numbers of people vaccinated.

I was under the impression that J&J and Moderna were responding to a Government RFP to reduce severe disease, hospitalization and death for individuals infected with Covid.

[Skidog]

So now I shouldn't buy Pfizer stock? You two need to get together on this, the messaging is very unclear.

Not a financial advisor #diamondhands

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I mean everyone dies from covid right?

Pretty sure if you scroll back to the very start youll see the most likely to get sick and die are still old people and immune compromised. Funny how that all "circles back"

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

The most likely to get sick and die are the unvaccinated, break it into age groups and it’s still true.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[bennymac]

The mostly likely people to die today are the old and the infirm.

If this is news to you your brain is as sharp as a marble.

[skiJ]

That was an awful lot to read, so I selected the salient bits for those that seem to have missed them the first 20+ times around.

Buster. you crack me up... Thank you . tj

[XXX-er]

I mean everyone dies from covid right?

Pretty sure if you scroll back to the very start youll see the most likely to get sick and die are still old people and immune compromised. Funny how that all "circles back"

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-covid-19-m...ines-1.5652078

49 % of the people who died were unvaxed and younger, so while death is a pretty good indicator of who lost big time don't forget there are people who will be forever fucked up from covid, the long haulers who are still fucked up 18 monsth later are not in that figure

[XXX-er]

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1973397571546

Surgery delays because of anti vaxxers clogging up Canadian hosptiols have Canadians heading south to use YOUR hospitols

[skiJ]

Teletech, what’s the reason for your argument here? You’ve been vaccinated, so what’s the goal? Are you trying to change minds about the need for universal vaccination? Genuinely curious.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

guys...

If we go back a month, he was genuinely interested in perspective on childhood vaccination - and then

they experienced Breakthrough infections he expected his highly vaccinated community was immune to.

I am not sure that he expected lifetime immunity, and there are certainly posts that indicated he expected 'sterilizing immunity' ( someone fully vaccinated could not transmit the virus / the disease ) .

the Breakthrough infections changed the trajectory - Remember Styx ?

dissatisfied with Breakthrough infections, and the responses to his posts, he has become the current cynic -


sterilizing immunity and lifetime immunity - I hope your kids see that !


please Remember the post ( not his ) that said in today's politicized social climate, we could not have (nearly) eradicated polio.


Good luck. let's get boosters to sixty-five percent of those eligible by December eleventh ! !!!

Thank you. tj


postscript.

not only boosters to vaccination - if you believe you had covid more than four months ago, Please, get vaccinated - even a single dose --

remember the apparently healthy 28year old in utah, who died of his second case of covid requiring hospitalization in two years ?
. . . I wish he had gotten vaccinated....

[Hopeless Sinner]

X3 and many more.

Then there's this (don't read the comments, you'll cry):


Covid vaccine holdouts are caving to mandates — then scrambling to 'undo' their shots

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/co...A7b?li=BBorjTa

The ingredients in the bath are mostly not harmful, although the supposed benefits attached to them are entirely fictional. Baking soda and epsom salts, she falsely claims, will provide a “radiation detox” to remove radiation Madej falsely believes is activated by the vaccine. Bentonite clay will add a “major pull of poison,” she says, based on a mistaken idea in anti-vaccine communities that toxins can be removed from the body with certain therapies.

Then, she recommends adding in one cup of borax, a cleaning agent that’s been banned as a food additive by the Food and Drug Administration, to “take nanotechnologies out of you.”

The plan is to reduce the rubes resistance to getting vaxxed since they'll be able to wash the vax off later. This way they don't have to quit their jobs to continue to maintain their freedumbs or be embarrassed in front of their anti-vaxxers friends for giving in.

[teletech]

I knew what I was getting into. Longtime lurker. I do get a little kick out of shaking the hive. But I don’t have too much time on my hands anymore. Things I’ve learned skij seems like a genuinely nice person. Carl mega seems like a douche, if I was a roofer he would be pulling out roofing nails out of his tires for years to come. Poor skidog really likes tgr, his ban was pretty weak. Wasting time, staring out your phone to argue with idiots is not healthy or productive. Covid sucks, everyones probably going to get it. Boosters make your dick bigger. Chances of a breakthrough infection are 1 and a million unless you live in maine😉 Peace bitches it’s almost ski season.
Hasta la vista, hopefully not tomorrow

[seano732]

Quoted for idiocy and posterity. Laps. Kook.

[basinbeater]

Fun palast in Vienna offers 30 min of sexy time if you get a jab.

Sent from my SM-G960U using TGR Forums mobile app

[Skidog]

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-covid-19-m...ines-1.5652078

49 % of the people who died were unvaxed and younger, so while death is a pretty good indicator of who lost big time don't forget there are people who will be forever fucked up from covid, the long haulers who are still fucked up 18 monsth later are not in that figure

#spinithowyouchoose

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

[Skidog]

There totally has not been one vaccinated person who infected another vaccinated person who subsequently died. It just hasn't happened. The "vaccine" totally works. I mean the CDC didnt change the definition of vaccine on their website at all.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

[dannynoonan]

Fun palast in Vienna offers 30 min of sexy time if you get a jab.

Sent from my SM-G960U using TGR Forums mobile app

Do you have to use it all at once? Or can I, you know, like, break that up into 2 or 3 visits?

[basinbeater]

I was thinking like 5 or 6 visits.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk