To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

**wkd-rdr** · 01-21-2021, 08:08 AM

ModeRNA #2, done.
Sore arm, achy joints. Nothing big.

Also, vaccine clinics are superspreader events.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 01-21-2021, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by glademaster

Had to fix that, it was making my brain hurt.

Love/hate smartphones and auto correct

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**MontuckyFried** · 01-21-2021, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

I think you are completely wrong,

usa missed the boat on COVID cuz they listned to trump and they are at 1245 deaths per million

sweden a nation of fit people also missed the boat on Covid are at 1065 deaths per million cuz they didnt practise the disease protocols

Canada which is less obese but not that different from USA did a half ass stab at protocols is at 486 deaths per million

Could that possibly have anything to do with population densities? Perhaps it's been kind of a rural/urban correlation. Are the majority of issues in Sweden in Stockholm and other main cities? Just like LA and NYC got hit so hard here but much of the countryside is relatively fine by comparison. Canada is pretty damn hudge with only 37MM people. I thought Montreal and Toronto got hit harder than the rest of the country. Still, I see your point.

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Heh.

I *guarantee* MontuckyFriedChicken would fight tooth and nail any use of taxation to address the obesity issue. Even though it's *likely* to be an excellent way to modify the behavior that leads to it...

Oh yeah?! Shows how little you know me and just want to project. I've said it before. I would heartily welcome socialized health care if only we had the balls to institute metabo laws (ie fat tax) like they have in Japan. BRING IT!!! Hint: We don't. We've caved to the PC police who promote the "body positive" bullshit.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 01-21-2021, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by glademaster

Had to fix that, it was making my brain hurt.

I have a love/hate relationship with smartphones and autocorrect

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**MontuckyFried** · 01-21-2021, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by old goat

Having learned what little I know about immunology in the early 70's, the speed and degree to which the immunology of SARS-CoV-2 and its mutations is being worked out is staggering to me. Unfortunately the virus is faster.

That's what I thought, but according to many of the previous comments, the virus mutation is not fast. I'm confused. Which is it, folks? Is it mutating too fast to truly ever control, or slow enough that it's manageable? Hopefully the latter.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 01-21-2021, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

That's what I thought, but according to many of the previous comments, the virus mutation is not fast. I'm confused. Which is it, folks? Is it mutating too fast to truly ever control, or slow enough that it's manageable? Hopefully the latter.

I don’t think you really grasp what he’s saying. It has nothing to do with what mofro or triungulate are talking about

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**east or bust** · 01-21-2021, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I have a love/hate relationship with smartphones and double posting

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FIFY

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 01-21-2021, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by east or bust

FIFY

Yeah, I don’t know what happened there. The app said the first post was invalid. Oh, well

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**seano732** · 01-21-2021, 09:10 AM

Second round of Pfizer: Arm much sorer at injection site, had ache radiating up shoulder into neck, all gone within twelve hours......5G service has diminished as well......

**tetzen** · 01-21-2021, 09:21 AM

I'm not all that surprised, but this news just points to there being a lack of any real leadership over the past few months as we find out there wasn't any type of vaccine distribution plan in place.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/r...e-distribution

The indifference by Trump is just staggering. Guess he got his Regeneron treatment and then just fucked off. I seriously hope the companies can figure out a way to exponentially increase the production of the vaccines to catch up with the need.

**The AD** · 01-21-2021, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Could that possibly have anything to do with population densities?

Population density certainly can't help, but when you consider a highly urbanized nation like Taiwan that has 23 million people on an island 1/8 the size of Colorado has had less than 1,000 cases and 7 deaths TOTAL, it tells you there's a whole lot more going on.

It's kind of crazy when you think about it. Taiwan has slightly more people than Florida and Florida has had 1.6 million cases and over 24,000 deaths.

**tetzen** · 01-21-2021, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by The AD

Population density certainly can't help, but when you consider a highly urbanized nation like Taiwan that has 23 million people on an island 1/8 the size of Colorado has had less than 1,000 cases and 7 deaths TOTAL, it tells you there's a whole lot more going on.

It's kind of crazy when you think about it. Taiwan has slightly more people than Florida and Florida has had 1.6 million cases and over 24,000 deaths.

I think one of the things we should keep in mind is that the island nations have a natural barrier to disease, that being the ocean or sea. They can more easily control the comings and goings of people through their ports. Florida has an entire open border with Georgia and Alabama that people can just drive right over. South Korea is in a similar situation as it is effectively an island, and can control who comes and goes.

Of course, Taiwan, and similar islands, have implemented stricter controls on isolating and quarantining the disease than other countries. However, the United Kingdom has really sucked at this second round wave and it is an island itself, so just being an island doesn't automatically protect from the pandemic spreading within the borders.

**The AD** · 01-21-2021, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by tetzen

Of course, Taiwan, and similar islands, have implemented stricter controls on isolating and quarantining the disease than other countries. However, the United Kingdom has really sucked at this second round wave and it is an island itself, so just being an island doesn't automatically protect from the pandemic spreading within the borders.

I think being an island can be a double-edged sword. Yes, it makes border control easier, but if the virus takes off it becomes a petri dish.

**east or bust** · 01-21-2021, 09:50 AM

Does anyone think it’s kind of weird that around January 8th there has been a steady decline in reported cases in nearly every state? This appears to go against every trend we’ve seen surrounding COVID and holidays, and not to mention I haven’t noticed any change in attitudes regarding social distancing and mask compliance.

This may sound far fetched but anyone think tRump could have put the kibosh on testing to make it appear they were getting a handle on things before he left office, knowing there may be a jump in cases once the new admin ups testing again?

**The AD** · 01-21-2021, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by east or bust

This may sound far fetched but anyone think tRump could have put the kibosh on testing to make it appear they were getting a handle on things before he left office, knowing there may be a jump in cases once the new admin ups testing again?

Is the Federal govt. really involved in testing at all, though? It seems to me all the testing is being administered at the state level.

**rideit** · 01-21-2021, 09:57 AM

Well, no shit

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/r...e-distribution

**BC.** · 01-21-2021, 09:58 AM

Got the call...I guess I’m in the 2nd group of oldest staff members.....lol. I get it Saturday at noon/Moderna.

**char_** · 01-21-2021, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by rideit

Well, no shit

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/r...e-distribution

I read this headline late last night and thought to myself "no way, they had to have some sort of plan..."

I guess this is all part of their "let the states" figure it out plan?

**MultiVerse** · 01-21-2021, 10:06 AM

Some good news: A study from Israel suggests 98% have sterilizing immunity after receivng the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. Meaning they will most likely not become carriers and can't infect other people. Those who are given the vaccine develop 6-20 times more antibodies than patients who recovered from the disease.

https://www.ynetnews.com/health_scie...icle/H1jaK7mkd

**MontuckyFried** · 01-21-2021, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by The AD

Population density certainly can't help, but when you consider a highly urbanized nation like Taiwan that has 23 million people on an island 1/8 the size of Colorado has had less than 1,000 cases and 7 deaths TOTAL, it tells you there's a whole lot more going on.

It's kind of crazy when you think about it. Taiwan has slightly more people than Florida and Florida has had 1.6 million cases and over 24,000 deaths.

Yeah. That is pretty wild. There is DEFINITELY more going on. See my point below...

Originally Posted by tetzen

I think one of the things we should keep in mind is that the island nations have a natural barrier to disease, that being the ocean or sea. They can more easily control the comings and goings of people through their ports. Florida has an entire open border with Georgia and Alabama that people can just drive right over. South Korea is in a similar situation as it is effectively an island, and can control who comes and goes.

Of course, Taiwan, and similar islands, have implemented stricter controls on isolating and quarantining the disease than other countries. However, the United Kingdom has really sucked at this second round wave and it is an island itself, so just being an island doesn't automatically protect from the pandemic spreading within the borders.

Excellent points, however, referencing my earlier posts about nutrition and national health, I think there's a helluva lot more to it than just border control.

Compare the diets in the South Korea, Tawain, Japan, and other Asian countries versus the average American or UK diet. Therein lies much of the root of the problem. This can not emphasized enough in our national dialogue. When we look at what this country is doing versus that country, or this state versus that state, the most staggering difference I can see is what the people are eating and how their overall health is to begin with, PRE-Covid 19. We really should be focusing in on that and seeing what people are doing differently than we are on an individual level.

**char_** · 01-21-2021, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Yeah. That is pretty wild. There is DEFINITELY more going on. See my point below...

Excellent points, however, referencing my earlier posts about nutrition and national health, I think there's a helluva lot more to it than just border control.

Compare the diets in the South Korea, Tawain, Japan, and other Asian countries versus the average American or UK diet. Therein lies much of the root of the problem. This can not emphasized enough in our national dialogue. When we look at what this country is doing versus that country, or this state versus that state, the most staggering difference I can see is what the people are eating and how their overall health is to begin with, PRE-Covid 19. We really should be focusing in on that and seeing what people are doing differently than we are on an individual level.

Look, we all get the pre-existing conditions argument. The Obama admin tried to do a bunch around this with developing healthy eating and exercise habits in school children and was roundly met with “but my freedumbs!”.

The thing you seem to be looking right past is that they are NOT GETTING AND SPREADING COVID-19 to one another in these Asian countries. I know of no evidence that you don’t get COVID because you have a good diet and exercise.

This is staring you right in the face and you just breeze right over it. Couldn’t be competent government, a society that gives a shit, testing, etc, nope, must be that Asian diet.

**tgapp** · 01-21-2021, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by east or bust

Does anyone think it’s kind of weird that around January 8th there has been a steady decline in reported cases in nearly every state? This appears to go against every trend we’ve seen surrounding COVID and holidays, and not to mention I haven’t noticed any change in attitudes regarding social distancing and mask compliance.

This may sound far fetched but anyone think tRump could have put the kibosh on testing to make it appear they were getting a handle on things before he left office, knowing there may be a jump in cases once the new admin ups testing again?

this hypothesis might be true but in many states we are also seeing a decline in % positive rates. while we are still dramatically undertesting (our % positive rates are WAY too high), they are falling along with total positive numbers.

in other news, novavax is still recruiting:

https://www.novavax.com/PREVENT-19

**Dantheman** · 01-21-2021, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Compare the diets in the South Korea, Tawain, Japan, and other Asian countries versus the average American or UK diet. Therein lies much of the root of the problem. This can not emphasized enough in our national dialogue. When we look at what this country is doing versus that country, or this state versus that state, the most staggering difference I can see is what the people are eating and how their overall health is to begin with, PRE-Covid 19. We really should be focusing in on that and seeing what people are doing differently than we are on an individual level.

Except, as has been repeatedly noted, people in this country, especially the ones that are most likely to be obese and unhealthy, consider the government telling them to eat healthier and get some exercise to be a form of tyranny. The conservative backlash to Michelle Obama's anti-obesity campaign was substantial.

**MontuckyFried** · 01-21-2021, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by char_

Look, we all get the pre-existing conditions argument. The Obama admin tried to do a bunch around this with developing healthy eating and exercise habits in school children and was roundly met with “but my freedumbs!”.

True, but you don't think we should've tried again during a pandemic? If ever there was a time to push that narrative, this was it. Too bad Trump's favorite fine dining establishment was McDonalds, so that didn't exactly help anything.

Originally Posted by char_

The thing you seem to be looking right past is that they are NOT GETTING AND SPREADING COVID-19 to one another in these Asian countries.

Imposibru. Have you not seen the videos of Japanese subways packed as ever? They're not magically "not getting and spreading covid-19". They're a great case to be made that their bodies are fighting it better than ours are.

Originally Posted by char_

I know of no evidence that you don’t get COVID because you have a good diet and exercise.

You're 100% correct. There is no avoiding contracting the virus because of good diet and exercise. HOWEVER, you ARE a helluva lot more likely to at least minimize its impact. Yeah. About all those "asymptomatic" spreaders. Otherwise known as people with good immune systems.

**The AD** · 01-21-2021, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by tgapp

this hypothesis might be true but in many states we are also seeing a decline in % positive rates. while we are still dramatically undertesting (our % positive rates are WAY too high), they are falling along with total positive numbers.

One thing we've seen is that spikes are usually followed by fairly sharp drop-offs and maybe that's what we're seeing now. Remember just a couple months ago when North Dakota's cases were out of control? They're now 48th (only Oregon and Hawaii are lower) for daily new cases per capita.

Of course the other thing we've seen repeatedly is that lowering numbers don't last for long.