To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[MagnificentUnicorn]

You’re flailing now

I think you’re looking in a mirror


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Nothing has been proven yet, but you act like it has for political points. You’re a hack.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3

That article doesn’t say anything new. Probably natural transmission, possibly a lab leak. Do you know the difference between probable and possible?


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[k2skier112]

I don't get how because an individual might question the vax, and/or the viruses origin automatically makes them a Trump supporter? Seems fucking shallow...

I know plenty of decidedly Dems that for sure think it originated in china and a handful that haven't gotten the vax.

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no ones questioning where the virus originated, it was China

people against the vax aren't smart, people who support T**** aren't smart...

[JimmyCarter]

That article doesn’t say anything new. Probably natural transmission, possibly a lab leak. Do you know the difference between probable and possible?


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Yes. Thanks for proving my point.

[dunfree]

Yes. Thanks for proving my point.

your point being you are a hack?

yes, the lab leak is possible. The people pushing it are almost entirely partisan morons with cottage cheese brains screaming into a mypillow. It’s the perfect political bullshit - it will never be proven (likely) but they can scream about it and act like it means something. Perfect for rube nation.

[riser4]

Who stands the most to gain from anything, such as anti-vax, anti-mask, conspiracies, etc, that weakens and divides our country? Our enemies, that's who. RJ, prove that you are not a Russian (or any other foreign actor) Troll.

[old goat]

If I may interrupt this shit slinging contest--some more actual data from the CDC via WaPo--

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...ak-vaccinated/

about 35,000 symptomatic cases per week out of 162,000,000 vaccinees. If I did my math correctly that works out to about a 1% chance of a vaccinated person getting symptomatic Covid per year--of which a fraction are hospitalized and a smaller fraction will die. The number is of course highly dependent on the prevalence of infection in one's community, on the overall course of the pandemic over time, and on people's individual precautions and risk factors. Given the numbers wearing a mask indoors seems like a reasonable step to take to protect oneself and others, pending more data on the risk of vaccinating people transmitting, but judging by the Provincetown cluster that risk seems significant. At this point wearing a mask indoors is all we are being asked to do, which should have no effect on the economy.

If the CDC changes its recommendation every week based on new data I have no problem with that. It may be a problem for people with weak minds.

[CarlMega]

Who stands the most to gain from anything, such as anti-vax, anti-mask, conspiracies, etc, that weakens and divides our country? Our enemies, that's who. RJ, prove that you are not a Russian (or any other foreign actor) Troll.

Here becomes a problem. When the positions, policies and principles of the American right are indistinguishable from those our enemies (say Russia) - does the distinction matter anymore?

[Harry]

Who stands the most to gain from anything, such as anti-vax, anti-mask, conspiracies, etc, that weakens and divides our country? Our enemies, that's who. RJ, prove that you are not a Russian (or any other foreign actor) Troll.

Exactly.

Patriotic Americans get vaccinated and wear masks.

Russian Intelligence assets argue about how vaccines and masks take away their freedom.

It really is that simple.



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[Dantheman]

your point being you are a hack?

yes, the lab leak is possible. The people pushing it are almost entirely partisan morons with cottage cheese brains screaming into a mypillow. It’s the perfect political bullshit - it will never be proven (likely) but they can scream about it and act like it means something. Perfect for rube nation.

These days there does seem to be quite a few credible people who find the lab leak hypothesis credible and probable. Unfortunately, the PRC has probably long since destroyed any evidence and disappeared any people that could have proven it. The problem, as I see it, is that a certain subset of people have latched onto it hard because for some reason they believe it absolves them of any responsibility to do anything about the problem as it exists here today. Which, of course, is asinine.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Eviction moratorium ends saturday. Won't be good for mental health looking forward to the next year. This is again why the effects of rushed government policy can't be clearly seen until 5-10 years after the fact.

So you weren't happy with the Trump admin's response to the pandemic? Chalk me up as agreeing with you.

I don't get how because an individual might question the vax, and/or the viruses origin automatically makes them a Trump supporter? Seems fucking shallow...

I know plenty of decidedly Dems that for sure think it originated in china and a handful that haven't gotten the vax.

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There are certainly the hippie types who are just antivaxxers in general, but the prevalence of the spread of the virus to the unvaccinated as shown via data mapping demonstrates that death rates, ICU visits, etc. due to COVID-19 illness are more pronounced in the Trump/red areas of the country. Do you disagree? Also, not many are saying the virus originated outside of China. I don't know where you're getting that assertion...unless you are making a point about where the first coronavirus originated, which I think was maybe in Scandinavia long long ago. Regardless, if that's what you're saying then what is your point?

your point being you are a hack?

yes, the lab leak is possible. The people pushing it are almost entirely partisan morons with cottage cheese brains screaming into a mypillow. It’s the perfect political bullshit - it will never be proven (likely) but they can scream about it and act like it means something. Perfect for rube nation.

Exactly. Sure, it's possible, does that mean it's more probable than the natural origins theory?

[dunfree]

These days there does seem to be quite a few credible people who find the lab leak hypothesis credible and probable.

I haven’t seen many, any, that consider it probable. Possible, yes.

China has destroyed most of the evidence for any source investigation. The wild animals at the market were destroyed, etc. etc. it’s a hot political issue so the likelihood of any serious proof for any source is near zero.

It took over a decade to trace a source for SARS.

[riser4]

Exactly.

Patriotic Americans get vaccinated and wear masks.

Russian Intelligence assets argue about how vaccines and masks take away their freedom.

It really is that simple.



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Assets and useful idiots.

[jono]

It was roughly the first week of May when the origin discussion was good. Rereading it would be more useful than all this reciting what isn't known or hasn't been seen stuff.

The weird unspoken undercurrent to a lab origin theory is that basically every argument of the covidiots is a variant of the nature fallacy: "just the new flu," "natural infection > vaccines," "nothing we can do about it" etc. What happens to all those arguments if the original virus was man-made? Which is why this goes unspoken.

[jono]

Assets and useful idiots.

The easiest way to control freedom-loving Americans is to get them scared of being controlled. We're learning who's willing to be vigilant and who just wants to talk.

[Flounder]

Exactly.

Patriotic Americans get vaccinated and wear masks.

Russian Intelligence assets argue about how vaccines and masks take away their freedom.

It really is that simple.

Post of the thread. Exactly right.

It’s also not just Fox News that’s making people anti vaccine , those who get their news from Facebook News are even worse.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ew-data-shows/

If you rely on Facebook to get news and information about the coronavirus, you are substantially less likely than the average American to say you have been vaccinated. In fact, Facebook news consumers are less likely to be vaccinated than people who get their coronavirus information from Fox News.

[Ted Striker]

That guy (or his twin brother) lives in my town. See him all the time. Freaky.

That guy lives in every WA small town.

[Tri-Ungulate]

...At this point wearing a mask indoors is all we are being asked to do, which should have no effect on the economy.

But whut about muh freedumbz!??!?? I would rather my dear old mum die than have to subject myself to such jack-booted Australian measures.

[wooley12]

That guy lives in every WA small town.

"They all look alike" Pick your own "They"

My daughters vaxed friend just tested positive as did her husband. Works as a respiratory therapist. Cold symptoms.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Nothing has been proven yet, but you act like it has for political points. You’re a hack.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3

Tell you what--since you seem to be too fucking high to read and understand right now, why don't you wait awhile and when you're capable of basic reading comprehension again you can show me where I said anything had been proven. I was contradicting your buddy up above who somehow knows the origin of the virus. If you want to keep arguing his side, have at it, but again, it puts you firmly in the red hatted moron camp. If that's where you want to be, fine with me.

Na.

5-10 Years from now when we aggerate all the overdose deaths, mental health deaths, and kids with fucked up childhoods that grow into fucked up adults will dominate the conversation.

We will then start to think, maybe we shouldn't have thrown it all away for a virus with 99.7% survival rate.

Start to think is an interesting turn of phrase for you, but even assuming 99.7% survive (you're wrong), you want to ignore all the people hospitalized who end up with serious problems (I know someone currently awaiting a lung transplant due to covid--he and a bunch of other people who didn't think covid was a big deal all got together and infected each other in November--but people like that don't concern you, I guess; don't worry, he might soon go into the mortality column, anyway). And .3% is not a trivial percentage (I wouldn't do something if I knew I had a .3% chance of dying). Anyway, again, your number is wrong:

Government policy (especially rushed government policy) cant really be seen in 20/20 years after the initial rollout.

Why don't you go back and delete/edit your post. Or in 5+ years, i can tell you I told you so.

What would you be telling me? You can speculate all you like, but people who actually understand public health think you're wrong--why do you know better than those people? I'll answer for you: you don't, you just want to believe something and are rationalizing with a flimsy case based on uninformed speculation.

It's beyond absurd that this needs to be stated, but this global pandemic is extremely serious. You posting otherwise doesn't change that (are you aware we're officially over 600k U.S. deaths, and likely 700k as a real number?).

I don't get how because an individual might question the vax, and/or the viruses origin automatically makes them a Trump supporter? Seems fucking shallow...

I know plenty of decidedly Dems that for sure think it originated in china and a handful that haven't gotten the vax.

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I never said questioning the source makes you a Trump supporter, but his argument in favor of what Trumpers want to believe about the virus places him in that camp. He could prove me wrong, but he's doubled down instead.

These days there does seem to be quite a few credible people who find the lab leak hypothesis credible and probable. Unfortunately, the PRC has probably long since destroyed any evidence and disappeared any people that could have proven it. The problem, as I see it, is that a certain subset of people have latched onto it hard because for some reason they believe it absolves them of any responsibility to do anything about the problem as it exists here today. Which, of course, is asinine.

I think they initially latched onto it, or the Trump people started pushing it, because scapegoating yellow people plays well with MAGA types. IMO they would be behaving the same way with or without the lab leak theory. Unfortunately.

[Dexter Rutecki]

But whut about muh freedumbz!??!?? I would rather my dear old mum die than have to subject myself to such jack-booted Australian measures.

Is that when an Aussie in boots makes you drink a Fosters while chained to a koala bear?

[XXX-er]

they would be Blundstones

Not that I believe Covid was manufactured by China to fuck up America

so Americans can't buy as much stuff they don't really need

all of which is made by China

but what difference would that make as to how the pandemic is dealt with ?

[JimmyCarter]

your point being you are a hack?

yes, the lab leak is possible. The people pushing it are almost entirely partisan morons with cottage cheese brains screaming into a mypillow. It’s the perfect political bullshit - it will never be proven (likely) but they can scream about it and act like it means something. Perfect for rube nation.

Politicize all the science!!!

Burn the heretics!!!

[liv2ski]

Well CA is masked up again. Hit Costco and the market and there were masks on most everyone. Guy in Vons asked me why I didn't have one on. Told him I was asymptomatic and trying to take out the unvaccinated. Left him speechless.

[SKIP IN7RO]

^Well played!