To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[yeahman]

Surely these pharma companies are working on a vaccine 2.0 and not just continuing to rake in record profits....Right! Right?

Don't you love it when people accuse Big Pharma of promoting the vaccines to make money, then turn around and tell people to take ivermectin instead? And who makes ivermectin? Uh...Big Pharma. smh

[Tri-Ungulate]

I thought it was Big Farmer.

[Benny Profane]

I just read that Sweden is now barring any non-essential travel from Americans.

Good Europe travel update.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021...g-way-off.html

[The AD]

I was just thinking that maybe we should have all held our noses and gone with those who said we should call the vaccines "Trump vaccines" late last year. That led me down a rabbit hole to search for news stories at the time on the vaccines and came across this:

In the wake of the dramatic news of a potentially effective COVID-19 vaccine, President Donald Trump posted a flurry of tweets that claimed its makers, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and Democrats had conspired to suppress the announcement until after the 3 November presidential election. The U.S. company involved, Pfizer, "didn't have the courage to do it before," Trump asserted on 9 November. And FDA and Democrats, he wrote, "didn't want to have me get a Vaccine WIN, prior to the election, so instead it came out five days later."

https://www.science.org/news/2020/11...was-suppressed

Just thought it was pretty funny (or perhaps sad) to see this in retrospect.

[Not DJSapp]

I was just thinking that maybe we should have all held our noses and gone with those who said we should call the vaccines "Trump vaccines" late last year. That led me down a rabbit hole to search for news stories at the time on the vaccines and came across this:

https://www.science.org/news/2020/11...was-suppressed

Just thought it was pretty funny (or perhaps sad) to see this in retrospect.

We were given two scripts for a black mirror episode to go live in. Another 4 years of Trump, or whatever this is now.

[KQ]

[funkendrenchman]

Don't you love it when people accuse Big Pharma of promoting the vaccines to make money, then turn around and tell people to take ivermectin instead? And who makes ivermectin? Uh...Big Pharma. smh

Whenever someone says Big Pharma, I stop paying attention.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I said this at work the other day and was met with something resembling shock. I mean I don’t want to work with people in healthcare that are too stupid and selfish to get a vaccine that will help protect their patients and themselves. They’re probably in the wrong line of work.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[SorryBro]

Poorly worded and point taken. Was not meant to spread any type of "disinformation".

If you truly believe this, then go back and edit your original post. You are spreading misinformation.

We see this all the time in social media. Original post spews misinformation (whether intentional or not) "Pretty sure... I think I read a study... Didn't a doctor say...", then poster is shown they are wrong/unclear/mistaken and 20 posts down says "my bad". People miss the "my bad" post. It's hurting people.

Quoting not to pick on you, but because you seem like a person that at least is willing to discuss/realize when your decisions and actions could negatively affect others.

[Adolf Allerbush]

We were given two scripts for a black mirror episode to go live in. Another 4 years of Trump, or whatever this is now.

I don't know man...I think two things can be true:

1. The Trump Admin fucked up the response to the pandemic, examples include "it'll be 1 or 2 cases, gone in a couple of weeks, NBD", "what about bleach and light to treat it?"?
2. The Trump Admin did well by funding vaccine research and development, or in other words did the most obvious possible thing.

Let's continue to hold him accountable for 1 and give him props for 2.

[mcski]

Except funding vaccine development was the bare minimum and I can’t imagine anyone not doing that. While at the same time, I can’t imagine anyone thinking out loud about bleach being a possibility. So there will no props for someone doing a job at the most basic level

[Adolf Allerbush]

Except funding vaccine development was the bear minimum and I can’t imagine anyone not doing that. While at the same time, I can’t imagine anyone thinking out loud about bleach being a possibility. So there will no props for someone doing a job at the most basic level

Totally agree...but if giving Trump props gets shots into arms then I'm happy to point out that he did do the most basic thing.

[CarlMega]

Hey Mags

Just checking back in - toured some rural red states. Man, we're fucked. Zero fucks given unless you count the odd tendency to hang signs with sections of text from the constitution and contextless quotes from people much smarter than the dumbfucks displaying them on chainlink fences guarding their burning trash.

Anyway- excited to catch up on all the salient and insightful takes here so long as no one did something really fucking dimwitted like compared COVID to a zombie movie they watched back in highschool.

[Casey E]

Dunno if this was posted before, from Aug 23

“Once a fitness coach, man contracted COVID twice urges people to get vaccinated”

https://www.9news.com/video/news/hea...5-af6b9ba8de14

“It’s been 28 days between these two photos. Over that time I have gone from being in a wheelchair, then a walker, and now I am able to walk without help and I am able to live without supplemental oxygen most of the time.

I know that I had a slim chance of surviving Covid for the second time, respiratory failure, 47 days on a ventilator, being intubated and reintubated for a total of three times, and all the other challenges I faced along the way. I was lucky to have 40-50 pounds of extra muscle and bone mass that my body could pull energy and nutrients from to survive. Now more than ever I know that diets are not the answer. Building up your strength is the only way to improve your body composition and fortify your health, so that you can survive whatever storms you hit in life.

If it seems like a quick recovery, consider that I essentially trained my whole life, since I was 15 years old, to get to this point. Being strong mentally and physically are key to being able to overcome adversity. Each day I focus on the progress I can make, and I celebrate each win with gratitude.

I thought I was already protected because I had Covid before, but it’s important to know that antibodies only last so long. Covid almost killed me. It took everything I had, along with one heck of a medical team, to fight back and survive. Now my days are full of therapy on every level to build back my body and mind. I encourage anyone who is on the fence about getting vaccinated to discuss it with their doctor. I’m lucky to be alive right now.

I know that I’ve got a tall mountain to climb, but when I look at how far I’ve already come, it gives me motivation to keep going strong. ~Bill”

https://www.facebook.com/11726800162...152714914/?d=n

[The AD]

I don't know man...I think two things can be true:

1. The Trump Admin fucked up the response to the pandemic, examples include "it'll be 1 or 2 cases, gone in a couple of weeks, NBD", "what about bleach and light to treat it?"?
2. The Trump Admin did well by funding vaccine research and development, or in other words did the most obvious possible thing.

Let's continue to hold him accountable for 1 and give him props for 2.

Do you think if Trump has been elected for a second term we might actually have a higher percentage of our population vaccinated? I think we very well might. Trump would have wanted to promote the vaccines because it was something that happened during his watch. Once he lost and the Republicans lost the Senate it was in their best interest for the pandemic to continue so they could say "see, the Democrats aren't handling it any better."

[SumJongGuy]

Do you think if Trump has been elected for a second term we might actually have a higher percentage of our population vaccinated? I think we very well might. Trump would have wanted to promote the vaccines because it was something that happened during his watch. Once he lost and the Republicans lost the Senate it was in their best interest for the pandemic to continue so they could say "see, the Democrats aren't handling it any better."

Translation. Trump was a sore loser and sabotaged the nation with de facto genocide telling his flock to continue to catch and spread the virus. How's that working out for them? You can also bet that the Texas women's rights attack will sour the few remaining moderate GOP voters against them.

[LongShortLong]

I shouldn't have written low quality because that implies they're risky, what I meant instead is while they still achieve good results they don't work as well WRT efficacy compared with the AZ, J&J, & mRNA vaccines.

My impression is Sputnik is up there efficacy-wise (92%) with the mRNA vaccines https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55900622 references a Lancet study. And the Chinese vaccines may be getting the job done in Chile as Casey E reports. I see two paths to vaccine effectiveness. First, the vaccine can prevent disease. Second the vaccine can prevent transmission. The first allows us to ignore the pandemic. The second allows us to end the pandemic. Either or both can work.

I do find it potentially problematic that the initial vaccine studies report efficacy very shortly after administration, when they may benefit from short-term effects. Ofc, there's also beneficial long-term effects, as the immune system continues to adapt for months following an exposure/vax.

I don't track the vaccine studies carefully, so I don't know how the various vaccines perform in practice. Is Sputnik less good in practice?

[Skidog]

If you truly believe this, then go back and edit your original post. You are spreading misinformation.

We see this all the time in social media. Original post spews misinformation (whether intentional or not) "Pretty sure... I think I read a study... Didn't a doctor say...", then poster is shown they are wrong/unclear/mistaken and 20 posts down says "my bad". People miss the "my bad" post. It's hurting people.

Quoting not to pick on you, but because you seem like a person that at least is willing to discuss/realize when your decisions and actions could negatively affect others.

From the CDC website on the topic..I tried to bold some of the words. Lots of "will likely" and "may" and "similar viral loads"...basically what i said...so...

Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time: For prior variants, lower amounts of viral genetic material were found in samples taken from fully vaccinated people who had breakthrough infections than from unvaccinated people with COVID-19. For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people.

In case you actually feel like reading..i mean its right there on the CDC site...don't know who you can really take some of those bolded words out of context...

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...a-variant.html

[Adolf Allerbush]

Do you think if Trump has been elected for a second term we might actually have a higher percentage of our population vaccinated? I think we very well might. Trump would have wanted to promote the vaccines because it was something that happened during his watch. Once he lost and the Republicans lost the Senate it was in their best interest for the pandemic to continue so they could say "see, the Democrats aren't handling it any better."

I do think more people would be vaccinated because his supporters will do anything that he asks of them, whereas the folks who are antivaxx of the hippie stripe won't vaccinate regardless of who is telling them they should. The portion of the population that are Trump supporters and antivaxxers seems like it is a much larger percentage than the hippie type of antivaxxer, just seeing as how support of Trump inversely tracks with vaccination rates.

[k2skier112]

Whenever someone says Big Pharma, I stop paying attention.

Purdue Pharma dissolving still stings...too soon?

[Game Over]

The President will announce that all employers with 100 or more employees will be required to mandate COVID-19 vaccines or require testing at least once a week, and they’ll have to provide paid time off.

The new rule will impact over 80 million workers in private sector.

COVID-19 vaccinations will also be required for more than 17 million health care workers at hospitals and other facilities that receive Medicare or Medicaid reimbursement—roughly 50K providers. (This covers a majority of health care workers nationwide.)

👍

[MultiVerse]

My impression is Sputnik is up there efficacy-wise (92%) with the mRNA vaccines https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55900622 references a Lancet study. And the Chinese vaccines may be getting the job done in Chile as Casey E reports. I see two paths to vaccine effectiveness. First, the vaccine can prevent disease. Second the vaccine can prevent transmission. The first allows us to ignore the pandemic. The second allows us to end the pandemic. Either or both can work.

I do find it potentially problematic that the initial vaccine studies report efficacy very shortly after administration, when they may benefit from short-term effects. Ofc, there's also beneficial long-term effects, as the immune system continues to adapt for months following an exposure/vax.

I don't track the vaccine studies carefully, so I don't know how the various vaccines perform in practice. Is Sputnik less good in practice?

We should trial Sputnik and Sinopharm against Pfizer and Moderna because even if they have lower efficacy it's better to vaccinate widely, rather than try to achieve impenetrable immunity in a minority of the global population. Massive numbers of new Covid infections, not vaccines, are the main driver of new coronavirus variants. Modern vaccines are also safe and there's little issue taking one before taking another in the future.

That said, the Chinese have already licensed the Pfizer vaccine and will produce it locally with a state-owned partner. Other countries like Malaysia are phasing out the Sinovac vacine due to lower efficacy. While issues with data discrepancies and the lack of transparency cause many in the international community to question the official Sputnick numbers.


Edit to add new study comparing CoronaVac and Pfizer showing significant differences antibody production (Seropositivity) & decline (77% vs 95% respectively): https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...479-5/fulltext

[chaka]

Purdue Pharma dissolving still stings...too soon?

Empire of Pain is a great book.

[mcski]

I do think more people would be vaccinated because his supporters will do anything that he asks of them, whereas the folks who are antivaxx of the hippie stripe won't vaccinate regardless of who is telling them they should. The portion of the population that are Trump supporters and antivaxxers seems like it is a much larger percentage than the hippie type of antivaxxer, just seeing as how support of Trump inversely tracks with vaccination rates.

I don’t agree for a couple of reasons. The trump admin was kicking it to the states to administer without any fed funding which was a disaster. I don’t see that being any different if he had one as they’d still try and stick it to the blue states and vaccine rollouts would be much slower. Don’t forget he hadn’t bought enough initially either

The second is the mass amt of anti vax info spewing wouldn’t have changed. Lots of it is disinfo campaigns from Russian and China. Plus our home grown anti vaxxers. Maybe it wouldn’t have been as clear a divide but considering a crazy post i saw today about Fauci, Gain of Function, Bioweapon, secret sterilization, Bill gates, and depopulation plots (all in 1 paragraph) I think we’d be behind if anything. And that’s not even considering the 5G people!

[Adolf Allerbush]

I don’t agree for a couple of reasons. The trump admin was kicking it to the states to administer without any fed funding which was a disaster. I don’t see that being any different if he had one as they’d still try and stick it to the blue states and vaccine rollouts would be much slower. Don’t forget he hadn’t bought enough initially either

The second is the mass amt of anti vax info spewing wouldn’t have changed. Lots of it is disinfo campaigns from Russian and China. Plus our home grown anti vaxxers. Maybe it wouldn’t have been as clear a divide but considering a crazy post i saw today about Fauci, Gain of Function, Bioweapon, secret sterilization, Bill gates, and depopulation plots (all in 1 paragraph) I think we’d be behind if anything. And that’s not even considering the 5G people!

Right, and stupidity is not exclusive to the right. Plenty of imbeciles on the left too, who wouldn't take anything Trump took credit for. Your point on how Trump Admin was rolling out the vaccines is spot on...and if he was still in power and this was a way to make the blue states bend to him, then he probably uses that leverage to get his way on other domestic agenda items such as outlaw abortions, kill off various environmental regulations, build the wall, etc.