To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[wooley12]

Anyway, let's get back to me.

Based on my personal risk assessment, I want the trifecta. PAging Dr. Fauci to the courtesy phone.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...recommendation

[Tri-Ungulate]

calling him “the patients doctor” is a stretch not consistent with the facts as represented. What happened

Exactly. Wagshul is not the patient's attending physician. Looks like he's affiliated with a hospital about 30 miles from where the patient is currently being treated. He's a pulmonologist, so conceivably may have ICU experience. Just have the patient transferred AMA to his unit with Wagshul as accepting physician.

If the patient survives transit whilst intubated, Wagshul can be responsible for administering the ivermectin (hudge dose BTW).

Easy peasy.

[MultiVerse]

Crucially Wagshul is a founding member of the Frontline Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance. A must read for anyone wanting to know what these particular doctors are about:

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/...43909157855246

[mcski]

The anti-vaxxer movement and white people dying because of their 'freedoms' is a time-honored American tradition. And by American tradition that includes the Americas, the northern landmass going back before 'America' even existed.

It seems we do this every 100 years: https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/s...60194276659203

This thread is gold jerry, gold!

[Ted Striker]

Invermectin guy is dead. Quack Dr and shyster attorney are just using him (/wife) for the culture wars.

[altasnob]

and BTW my father was appointed to the municiple court bench, the superior court bench and the appellate court bench in Seattle. He ran for election once but was otherwise unopposed the entire time he was on the bench.

Judge's are only appointed in Washington when there is a vacancy to fill. And yes, once appointed, they tend to always get elected because no one knows which judge to elect so they just stick with the status quo. One of the reasons electing judges is stupid.

[KQ]

Judge's are only appointed in Washington when there is a vacancy to fill. And yes, once appointed, they tend to always get elected because no one knows which judge to elect so they just stick with the status quo. One of the reasons electing judges is stupid.

blerg. are you really schooling me on this? huh.

[mcski]

Judge's are only appointed in Washington when there is a vacancy to fill. And yes, once appointed, they tend to always get elected because no one knows which judge to elect so they just stick with the status quo. One of the reasons electing judges is stupid.

Are you now seriously trying to lawsplain to KQ? Holy fuck, you have a bad case of the dumbz today

[altasnob]

You realize a lot of cases get decided on the law, rather than the facts? In other words, there are plenty of ways to win a case without presenting any evidence whatsoever.

Here you go, boss: https://legal.thomsonreuters.com/blo...state-a-claim/

If the hospital presents absolutely zero evidence Ivermectin should not be prescribed, how can the judge rule against the patient, as a matter of law? I'm actually surprised the hospital made no attempt to fight this, but that is what the article said. Maybe a TGR posters friend of the court brief would have helped the judge make the right call.

[KQ]

US travelers dropped from EU safe list as Covid cases surge

(CNN) — The European Union recommended on Monday that Americans should be banned from nonessential travel to its member states after a rise in Covid-19 cases in the United States.

Countries within the 27-nation bloc, which includes France, Italy and Germany, have been advised to reinstate coronavirus-related restrictions and halt the arrival of tourists from the US and five other countries.

The guidance, which also now applies to Israel, Kosovo, Lebanon, Montenegro, and the Republic of North Macedonia, is non-binding for EU member states. That means it remains up to each individual EU country to decide whether to allow "nonessential travel to the EU for fully vaccinated travelers."

[twat]

The anti-vaxxer movement and white people dying because of their 'freedoms' is a time-honored American tradition. And by American tradition that includes the Americas, the northern landmass going back before 'America' even existed.

It seems we do this every 100 years: https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/s...60194276659203

yeah a good read
i dont know if i want to know what the Frontline Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance says better not

[old goat]

she found a doc to write a script, but the hospital doesn’t want to administer. This is, per the lawsuit, at least the third such case in the us.
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ctin-complaint

Inpatients, especially critically ill patients requiring ICU care are managed by the inpatient/ICU team, and I am unaware that an outside physician can make an intervention that isn't agreed upon by the managing team, because as KQ implies, they are ultimately responsible for the patient. Who knows, maybe that can be challenged by some douchebag rightwing judge, I dunno.

If the patient/family insists on the treatment, they can of course transfer care to the physician who wants to provide the disputed treatment. This does become far more difficult for unstable intubated ICU patients, though. I'm gonna guess that Dr. Ivermectin will be unwilling or unable to be responsible for ICU care and management.

The judge in the case was appointed, not voted. Washington State elects their judges, but most places appoint, which is considered a better way to remove political bias from the judiciary.

The patient's doctor prescribed Ivermectin. The hospital (fighting against Ivermectin) presented no evidence to contradict the patient's doctor that Ivermectin was in their best interest (the hospital essentially was waiving the white flag). It would have taken an activist judge to NOT rule for the patient in this case.

As several have posted--Wagshul cannot prescribe treatment in a hospital he is not on staff of. The hospital could appoint him to staff--but would a hospital be willing to appt a quack to its staff. Did Wagshul exam the patient and the medical records?. Presuming to treat a critically ill patient without examining the patient and the records is potentially grounds for revoking his medical license. OTOH, the board of directors of the hospital could kick a doctor who refused to prescribe Ivermectin off the staff, but that would seem to be begging for a very expensive lawsuit. Doctors get criticized for not policing their own, but vetting doctors to be on staff, disciplining doctors on staff who do not adhere to the standard of care are basic ways that doctors are policed and should not be messed with. I would like to see the case appealed--families should not be able to use the courts to force hospitals and physicians to prescribe quack treatment.

Exactly. Wagshul is not the patient's attending physician. Looks like he's affiliated with a hospital about 30 miles from where the patient is currently being treated. He's a pulmonologist, so conceivably may have ICU experience. Just have the patient transferred AMA to his unit with Wagshul as accepting physician.

If the patient survives transit whilst intubated, Wagshul can be responsible for administering the ivermectin (hudge dose BTW).

Easy peasy.

Easy peasy except for the doctor who has to sign the transfer order after determining that the patient is safe to transfer. Patient dies in transit it's the transferring doc who's on the hook. Given the vent settings it sounds like the guy is on transfer is by no means a slam dunk.

It's time for state medical boards to start taking action against these quacks. I made a complaint to the California Board about that radiologist quack that was Trump's favorite Covid expert. They blew me off. I understand the reluctance but things have gone too far. You want Ivermectin, at least you should have to go to Mexico to get it.

[twat]

US travelers dropped from EU safe list as Covid cases surge

(CNN) — The European Union recommended on Monday that Americans should be banned from nonessential travel to its member states after a rise in Covid-19 cases in the United States.

Countries within the 27-nation bloc, which includes France, Italy and Germany, have been advised to reinstate coronavirus-related restrictions and halt the arrival of tourists from the US and five other countries.

The guidance, which also now applies to Israel, Kosovo, Lebanon, Montenegro, and the Republic of North Macedonia, is non-binding for EU member states. That means it remains up to each individual EU country to decide whether to allow "nonessential travel to the EU for fully vaccinated travelers."

there you go antivaxxers yellow passport in fullswing plus possible pcr test....
anyway if someone is fullyvaxxed and tested why not let him travel...

but i hear the cornerd screaming!!!

[Tri-Ungulate]

Easy peasy except for the doctor who has to sign the transfer order after determining that the patient is safe to transfer. Patient dies in transit it's the transferring doc who's on the hook. Given the vent settings it sounds like the guy is on transfer is by no means a slam dunk.

Yeah, I was just being facetious. But if the patient leaves AMA that's on them. There is the issue of whether the accepting physician is willing to be responsible for a patient that is unstable for transport.

there you go antivaxxers yellow passport in fullswing plus possible pcr test....
anyway if someone is fullyvaxxed and tested why not let him travel...

I was planning to visit Vendul this Xmas and maybe see if you might come out to Sedrun for some skiing, but now getting worried that may not happen.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Vehement anti-vaccine rocker Eric Clapton has put out what appears to be a musical rant against pandemic restrictions and vaccines.



‘This Has Gotta Stop’: Eric Clapton Releases Apparent Anti-Vax Anthem

Fuck that guy. The song is even terrible, boomer pablum


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[MultiVerse]

i dont know if i want to know what the Frontline Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance says better not

Spoiler Alert: It's a telehealth scam. In return for a $90 online consultation fee doctors like Wagshul will write a prescription for ivermectin. Also, another one of the 'Frontline' doctors says lady diseases are caused by having sex with demons.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

To be clear, the judge ordered the treatment for the patient because the patient was requesting it and the hospital was refusing to give it to them. The judge is not ordering the hospital to give the treatment to people who don't want it.

So if a patient wants a hospital to inject bleach into them it’s okay?

Zero credible evidence that ivermectin works for Covid.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Trump received treatment that was not FDA approved. I look at this as more a question of should patients be able to demand to receive novel experimental treatment? The patient wanted the treatment and was willing to file a lawsuit to get it. Just give it to them. They are definitely receiving it knowingly, intelligently, and voluntarily. They can't sue the doc if the treatment ends up harming them.

It’s not ethical to treat someone with a drug if you know that it does no good and may cause potential harm. This is getting out of hand. You want to practice medicine go to medical school or treat yourself.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Actually , it read the patient is intubated. The wife is requesting. Regardless, patients don’t direct doctor treatment - - either w animal drugs or human

Exact same situation happening at my hospital right now. Morons.


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[altasnob]

So if a patient wants a hospital to inject bleach into them it’s okay?

Zero credible evidence that ivermectin works for Covid.

If the patient can find a doctor in the US to say that injecting bleach is in the patient's best interest, and the hospital refuses to make any attempt to fight that claim, then the judge would have no other choice.

Bleach is taking it to far though. The judge has to rely on facts in the record but can take judicial notice of facts not in the record that are not in dispute (like there are 7 days in the week).

As goat says, if you have a problem with this stuff, there should be more policing of doctors so we have less of them out there making outlandish claims. Hate the doctor, not the legal system.

[dunfree]

As goat says, if you have a problem with this stuff, there should be more policing of doctors so we have less of them out there making outlandish claims. Hate the doctor, not the legal system.

that’s not what goat said.

What you are saying is every MD should offer under duress the lowest care standard possible, but be liable for it if something goes wrong. An anti-progress notion if ever there was. Bring back leaches!

and yea, this suit is why some of us hate the legal industry.

[Buster Highmen]

The anti-vaxxer movement and white people dying because of their 'freedoms' is a time-honored American tradition. And by American tradition that includes the Americas, the northern landmass going back before 'America' even existed.

It seems we do this every 100 years: https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/s...60194276659203

That twitter account is not entirely accurate.

Read "The Speckled Monster" in which Zabdiel Boylston is credited for leveraging a slave's knowledge about inoculating for smallpox.

Boston was divided with regard to inoculation and threats were made towards Boylston, but he had his adherents too.

It's a great read and is divided between Boylston and Lady Mary Wortley Montagu in London, each experiencing independently hostility from the ignorant.

[Kinnikinnick]

blerg. are you really schooling me on this? huh.

Sit your pretty little self down and take his mansplaining to heart..

LOL


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[teleee]

It’s not ethical to treat someone with a drug if you know that it does no good and may cause potential harm. This is getting out of hand. You want to practice medicine go to medical school or treat yourself.


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Dude you are arguing ethics with someone who spends their day on the TGRz while he is charging some poor sap an outrageous hourly rate for the privilege.

[Toadman]

Crucially Wagshul is a founding member of the Frontline Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance. A must read for anyone wanting to know what these particular doctors are about:

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/...43909157855246

Interesting. Snake Oil salesmen pimping the "cures". Wonder why so many unvaxxed using these snake oil cures are still dying? Increase the dosage?