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  1. #3426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tips^Up View Post
    I'm seeking more knowledge from our broad collective that could convince me one way or the other. TGR advice is how I make every life decision.

    Once more - I'm not anti-vax, I intend to get it eventually, I'm just skeptical at this point and wish there was better long term data (which is impossible because of the recency of development).
    i figure im fucking 50...how much i got left? Not many long lifers in either side of my familes. Sure I could be an outlier, but I doubt it. Generally healthy, but heck my dad had his first heart attack at the damn gym getting "healthy" at 50...I guess i figure i got a good 20-25 years left, unless these vaccines are really fucked up I think ill be alright. I figure its worth the risk for the larger (than TGR) "collective".

    I will say I hate wearing a mask, but I do it, without complaint, everywhere its required. Again for that "collective" shits crazy all around.

  2. #3427
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    I'm doing nothing but parroting back what Mofro and friends have said here--some probably incorrectly, for that matter. But as far as it goes, there has been a lot of good info posted here and the idea of bouncing your thinking off TGR is not all bad. (Probably AMA, but not all bad.)

  3. #3428
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    Tips Up check your PMs for the vid I did.

    -------------

    Some of the latest data out is super encouraging:
    1. Single dose mRNA generating excellent crossvariant protection in those who had a previous COVID infection.
    2. Great protection and safety at 6mo for Pfizer (as was predicted, but data is great)
    3. Decent protection off of a single dose (2 still recommended)
    4. Improved protection for kids by having adults vaxxed
    5. Trials for 12-15y/o are showing safety for Pfizer. This population will be critical to help reach herd immunity.
    6. J&J is actually a great vaccine and is more effective than the 66% that is often headlined when you consider the differences in study design, timing, and environment vs the mRNA vaccines.
    7. Encouraging vaccine efficacy against variants
    8. Vaccine rollout is encouraging in US
    9. Economic recovery is encouraging in the US
    10. Hospitalization trends are sustainable in the US

    Other data is super frightening:
    1. Long term effects of COVID infection are going to a big problem for society with one study showing one third of COVID sufferers are then diagnosed with a psychological or neurological disorder after infection.
    2. US communities are abandoning the cheapest, easiest, and least intrusive interventions like masking.
    3. Brazil is fucked.
    4. Developing countries are lagging hard on vaccine creating worry about further variants.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  4. #3429
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    Mrs C got pfizer 2 Monday morning. A little achy and felt cold that night but all good now. I'm going for pfizer 2 tonight.

    I'll admit with vaccines opening to everyone and availability of appointments here, I'm going to have a hard time not saying fuck off to those who choose not to get a shot but I'll do my best (I do mask when in public).

    Kind of funny, I'm one of the few who will wear a mask on my limited trips to work. The folks there were not yesterday and so I asked why not while we still have signs on the door that you need to wear one. Apparently the few that still go in all the time decided that they don't need to because about half the employees are WFH during a remodel. Those folks are also on the fence for getting a shot. Hence my dilemma of saying screw it, I got my vaccine.

  5. #3430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    3. Brazil is fucked.
    .
    How fucked?
    What we have here is an intelligence failure. You may be familiar with staring directly at that when shaving. .
    -Ottime
    One man can only push so many boulders up hills at one time.
    -BMillsSkier

  6. #3431
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    Quote Originally Posted by seano732 View Post
    How fucked?
    They are in a spiking uptrend in their epi curve and their ICU status looks like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	_117606169_brazil_states_covid_map_640-nc.png 
Views:	61 
Size:	155.8 KB 
ID:	370727

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56424611

    If you've read how bat it has been in South Africa, which had it worse than Italy last year, it's just frightening and depressing especially when I think about those bedside providers who will work themselves to death while having to offer lesser care to their patients and deny care to other patients because there isn't capacity.

    3 people are dying every minute of COVID in Brazil but they are nowhere near the top of the death curve. It will get much worse before it gets better. That scenario is exactly what COVID restrictions were meant to prevent, overwhelming the health system and the 2nd and 3rd order effects that result (eg interfering with care of non-COVID patients, avoidance of care, economic disruption and costs, pain, misery, disability, death, fear, and tragedy.

    Yesterday I made a huge argument against upping some COVID mitigation restrictions based on the ability of regional healthcare capacity in an environment where most of the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

    In Brazil, they could go back to a severe "lockdown" restrictions, and it wouldn't be enough to stop it from getting worse vs now, but they could prevent it from being as bad as will end up being without further restrictions.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  7. #3432
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    Quote Originally Posted by seano732 View Post
    How fucked?
    A Biological Fukushima...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2BT30P

  8. #3433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    They are in a spiking uptrend in their epi curve and their ICU status looks like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	_117606169_brazil_states_covid_map_640-nc.png 
Views:	61 
Size:	155.8 KB 
ID:	370727

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56424611

    If you've read how bat it has been in South Africa, which had it worse than Italy last year, it's just frightening and depressing especially when I think about those bedside providers who will work themselves to death while having to offer lesser care to their patients and deny care to other patients because there isn't capacity.

    3 people are dying every minute of COVID in Brazil but they are nowhere near the top of the death curve. It will get much worse before it gets better. That scenario is exactly what COVID restrictions were meant to prevent, overwhelming the health system and the 2nd and 3rd order effects that result (eg interfering with care of non-COVID patients, avoidance of care, economic disruption and costs, pain, misery, disability, death, fear, and tragedy.

    Yesterday I made a huge argument against upping some COVID mitigation restrictions based on the ability of regional healthcare capacity in an environment where most of the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

    In Brazil, they could go back to a severe "lockdown" restrictions, and it wouldn't be enough to stop it from getting worse vs now, but they could prevent it from being as bad as will end up being without further restrictions.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
    Well that's not fucking good......
    What we have here is an intelligence failure. You may be familiar with staring directly at that when shaving. .
    -Ottime
    One man can only push so many boulders up hills at one time.
    -BMillsSkier

  9. #3434
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    Seattle Times: COVID herd immunity? Parts of Washington state appear in no mood to join this herd

    ...start driving east from Seattle for a few hours, you can find vaccine easily and readily available

  10. #3435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Seattle Times: COVID herd immunity? Parts of Washington state appear in no mood to join this herd

    ...start driving east from Seattle for a few hours, you can find vaccine easily and readily available
    Availibility driven by decline of the vaccine acceptance with the strongest correlation being who you voted for is a little depressing.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  11. #3436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Seattle Times: COVID herd immunity? Parts of Washington state appear in no mood to join this herd

    ...start driving east from Seattle for a few hours, you can find vaccine easily and readily available
    Hmmm....reached the limit of free articles for the Seattle Times, couldn't read it.

  12. #3437
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    The Brazil thing reminds of something I've been seeing more and more of lately, namely people saying the whole "ICU beds are full" thing isn't really as important as they're making it out to be, because only a portion of those ICU beds are occupied by people with COVID. Personally I don't see what difference that makes. The beds are all taken. That's what matters.

  13. #3438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tips^Up View Post
    Let's try it this way. The following are all facts:

    - I'm not anti-vax. I've never voted for Trump. My wife is pregnant. Her doctor said she could get the Janssen vaccine. We wear masks, socially distance, wash hands.
    - None of the current vaccines have full FDA approval.
    - None of the vaccines have completed phase 3 trials.
    - They were invented last year and rushed to market, there are no long term studies on the vaccines.
    - Last week, the Emergent lab making the Janssen vaccine had to dump 15,000,000 doses because they screwed up ingredients, in a lab that is not approved by the FDA.
    - Emergent has been cited repeatedly by the Food and Drug Administration for problems such as poorly trained employees, cracked vials and mold in facilities.
    - As of right now, CDC's website reports 554,420 deaths in USA from Covid-19 and 30,596,830 confirmed cases (excluding my family of 3 and who knows how many others). 1.81% of confirmed covid cases have died.
    - In my 30-39 age bracket in the US, there have been 5,683 deaths, 1.06% of covid deaths nationwide have been in my demographic. Of confirmed cases, someone 30-39 years old has died 0.00018% of the time.

    I intend to get vaccinated at some point. That point may be tomorrow, or it may be in a month or 6. Besides media-induced panic (which is all ran and controlled by high risk baby boomers, who should get vaxxed asap), I believe I don't need to rush this decision.
    First off, there is no FDA "Light" vs. "Full Approval". There is EUA approval that doesn't end UNTIL the Emergency declaration is lifted, and then there is traditional appoval for non-emergency use. Meaning, none of the vaccines approved under EUA will convert to NON-EUA approval because of more or further completed data analysis, the phase I/II And III trials reached end points for safety and efficacy prior to being granted EUA. It is just a fact that they will need to seek a traditonal 510K approval with re-submission of the same data, to continue there use in the absence of a declared emergency which for COVID-19 we have no defined end yet on the horizon. What I'm saying is if you are waiting for "full" FDA approval, then be prepared to wait a really long fucking time.

    Next- the JJ vaccine. Is not RNA.

    Nope, it's a double stranded DNA replication incompetent adenovirus with the Sars2 Spike gene inserted into it, which needs to get to the nucleus where that DNA is transcribed into RNA which then gets transported back to the cytoplasm for generation of the SCoV2 Spike protein. So if long term complication mean "does this genetic material inegrate into my chromosomes" the chance of that happening for RNA are zero and for DNA lets just leave it at, potentially more than zero.

    Regardless, both platforms have been explored by vaccinologists in animals and in some cases people for diseases like TB, malaria, HIV, and then Ebola, Zika, etc since the early 2000's. None has made it into the vaccine stream as yet under non-EUA, but outside of Pneumococcal and HPV there haven't been any/many other new vaccines approved in the time frame with standard FDA approval.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  14. #3439
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    Brazil is really fucked, because it looks like Bolsonaro (an even nastier Tump without any of the charm) is prepping for a military coup in the middle of this.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  15. #3440
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
    Hmmm....reached the limit of free articles for the Seattle Times, couldn't read it.
    Ever since early February, when some software volunteers debuted a website to help the public find COVID-19 vaccine appointments, they’ve had a unique window into the ebb and flow of what one engineer there dubbed “the spice.”

    Who wants the vaccines, and who doesn’t? Where in the state are the shots snapped right up, and where are they left wanting?

    They noticed one major trend right from the start.

    “Once you start driving east from Seattle, for a few hours, you can find vaccine easily and readily available,” says Jessica Chong, a University of Washington assistant professor of genetics who is volunteering as a data scientist for the WA COVID Vaccine Finder, at covidwa.com.

    This regional disparity in vaccine thirst was a curiosity at first, but now has become cause for concern.

    “Tri-Citians slower than others to get the COVID vaccine,” the Herald newspaper reported this week. Thousands of vaccine appointments are available there, and most days the mass vaccination site at the Benton County fairgrounds hasn’t been able to fill all its slots.

    “There seems to have been some reluctancy in a lot of citizens to be vaccinated,” the Pasco mayor said in that story.

    State data spells it out. The 10 counties with the lowest vaccination rates have all seen 22% or fewer of their residents get the first shot so far — with nine of those 10 being red counties east of the Cascades.

    That compares to 31% of the entire state starting the vaccination shots. One county — Jefferson, home of Port Townsend, on Puget Sound — has crossed over the 50% vaccinated threshold. King County sits slightly above the state average at 34%, according to state data as of April 3.

    Why does this matter? Because public health officials say to reach herd immunity, to the point that life could return to a semblance of normal, 70% to 80% of state residents need to be immune. Unless you live in Jefferson County or the San Juan Islands (where 47% have gotten at least one shot), we are a looong way from reaching the herd goal.

    In Eastern Washington in particular, segments of society appear to be in no mood to be a part of any herd.

    “Government can kiss my ass,” posted the Franklin County Republican Central Committee, on the topic of getting vaccinated. This was on the official Facebook page of the county’s GOP organization! Franklin is in the Tri-Cities area; it’s probably not coincidental that it has the third worst vaccination rate in the state, at 18.7% (lower are Garfield County, at 18.5%, and Stevens County north of Spokane, at 17.3%).

    Chelan County, in Central Washington, has a 39.5% vaccination rate, defying the general east-west trend.

    Chong, the covidwa.com data scientist, said there are many reasons counties could have varied vaccination rates, such as age demographics, language barriers and driving distance to vaccination sites. But with appointments going unused in more rural counties, it can’t be vaccine scarcity anymore.

    “This has been studied, though,” she added. “The No. 1 correlating factor for whether you’ll get the vaccine is whether you voted for Trump.”

    Recent polls have indeed shown that nearly half of Republican men don’t intend to get the vaccine (GOP-voting women were more open to it). That could be simply resistance to a government program, or it could be part of a sentiment among many Republicans that the coronavirus was exaggerated, or even hyped to bring down former President Donald Trump.

    A new survey for the Economist found that among these “vaccine rejecters,” more continue to trust Trump for sound medical advice than trust the CDC or Dr. Anthony Fauci. Trump did get vaccinated himself in January, but a majority of GOP voters told pollsters they hadn’t heard about that (nearly twice as many had heard the news about the Dr. Seuss books being pulled).

    Vaccine skepticism is also one of those issues where the far right sometimes meets the far left, over on the back side. So getting all the way to 80% could be a stretch for any part of Washington state, red or blue.

    “Without vaccine hesitancy, we’d be in really good shape,” Carl Bergstrom, a UW evolutionary biologist, said in a commentary the other day on herd immunity. “With vaccine hesitancy, it could be close here in the U.S. I’m hoping that much of the hesitancy we see is really more like … vaccine deliberation.”

    Hope so, too. It’s perfectly understandable that people would be leery, or in “wait and see” mode. The data cited above suggests something else may be going on, though — something familiar and cultural that’s plagued us with the coronavirus from the start. Which is that America may just be too tribal and rebellious to get to where 80% of us ever agree to do anything.

    It was nearly a year ago — and about 500,000 national deaths ago — that Clint Didier, Franklin County commissioner and local GOP chairman, suggested we go for herd immunity the old-fashioned way. “We can take care of this virus by letting the people catch it,” he said.

    Even with a medicine now available, it seems like in some quarters that’s still the plan.

    Danny Westneat: dwestneat@seattletimes.com; Danny Westneat takes an opinionated look at the Puget Sound region's news, people and politics.

  16. #3441
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    A few thoughts on those that are vax hesitant:

    1. Back in January, wasn't the number 50% of folks were hesitant? Now it's 25%, only 4 months later? Keep vaccinating the willing, time and more peer pressure will keep the numbers rising.

    2. Once vaccines are widespread and readily available, what will happen to those holding out when the Feds say they're not going to reimburse hospitals for covid treatment anymore, and hospitals start billing patients? Oh, now all those folks that are hesitant to get a shot will come running because their fallback plan of getting hospitalized and getting stuck with a massive bill are now very, very, real. Or maybe all these anti-science, anti-vax folks might just win a Darwin award group prize.

    3. I really, really struggle to understand how people can rationalize their life choices. Beer, whiskey, tobacco, weed, coke, mushrooms, acid? Sure stranger, I'll take a double and party down. A vaccine that only went through a phase III trial with 50,000 participants and is now rolling in millions of other people? Hard no, my body is a temple and can't have that until it's proven safe. Fuck you, shitbird.
    I've concluded that DJSapp was never DJSapp, and Not DJSapp is also not DJSapp, so that means he's telling the truth now and he was lying before.

  17. #3442
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    I read that artical or one like it ^^ find a place that voted overwhelmingly trump and there will be unused vax

    570k to 337k dead, but with the strong vax program I wonder when Brazil will take over from the USA being the country most affected by covid ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #3443
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
    Hmmm....reached the limit of free articles for the Seattle Times, couldn't read it.
    The article said to me that in the areas of the state with giant Trump 2020 signs that the people's brain chemistry has been so deeply altered by years of daily lies, fear and hate propaganda that it is actually physically painful for some to wear a mask or vax. I know them and that is what I've seen personally in my encounters. So now what do we do? I'm still wearing my "Das Dicke Ende Kommt Noch" mask. "The worst is yet to come".
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  19. #3444
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    Being vaccinated is such an emotional relief. I am now 1.5 weeks out from Pfizer #2 and I am feeling really good mentally. This past year was brutal. Quit my job as unofficial mayor because I was tired of breaking up fistfights over mask, my Mom went off the deep end, I had to move from my ultra-pimp ski palace back to flatland USA. Covid really messed up my lifes plans.

    Im still wearing a mask, washing my hands, social distancing. But goddamn what a relief to have both shots in me. Today is a nice spring day, I had to drive Mom down to Eau Claire for a medical procedure, Im sitting in a park next to the university, birds are chirping, skateboarders are zipping around, some students are playing hacky sack on the lawn, a lower middle class milf with 3 crib midgets is wearing yoga pants. Feels soooo good to be alive. Emotionally I have not felt this good in a long, long time.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  20. #3445
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    "crib midgets", lol
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "I'd eat a bag of Dicks and wash it down with a Coke any day." - iceman

  21. #3446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    "crib midgets", lol
    That one is getting added to my vocabulary.

  22. #3447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Brazil is really fucked, because it looks like Bolsonaro (an even nastier Tump without any of the charm) is prepping for a military coup in the middle of this.
    I have colleagues in Brazil and they don't talk about it so I don't ask.

  23. #3448
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    The Brazil thing reminds of something I've been seeing more and more of lately, namely people saying the whole "ICU beds are full" thing isn't really as important as they're making it out to be, because only a portion of those ICU beds are occupied by people with COVID. Personally I don't see what difference that makes. The beds are all taken. That's what matters.
    THere's a lot of fuckery with ICU bed numbers. I could put all the variable out there but lets say the actual number of beds that can be occupied with adequate care given to patients is lower than the reported total number of beds primarily due to staffing and "surge beds."
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  24. #3449
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    Dec 2020
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    My observations from my part of Vt. Far right conservatives anti-mask, but willing to get vaccine. Far left progressives, willing to mask, don't trust vaccine. Young people, anti-mask feel like they are protected and if they get it, it won't be bad. Most in the middle, right and left, are willing to mask and get vaccinated. On the other hand, the only appointment I could find within two weeks when I signed up were in Franklin Co, a republican leaning county.
    Got the J&J yesterday in St Albans, no side effects whatsoever. Didn't know what vaccine I had signed up for and feel like I jumped the line by getting a single dose vaccine. Made me wonder if the state was distributing the single dose vaccine in areas where they thought people might not return for second shots, particularly if they had side effects to shot 1.

  25. #3450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostintime View Post
    Made me wonder if the state was distributing the single dose vaccine in areas where they thought people might not return for second shots, particularly if they had side effects to shot 1.
    I think lots of places are holding J&J for this population, which includes homeless, undocumented, etc. And it makes perfect sense.

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