To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Thaleia]

^ Shit, I thought you were joking..

[jono]

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episo...min-d-covid-19

Something funny going on in those numbers. If 70% of people have D insufficiency and 40% have deficiency, 88% and 98% fatality among those two groups (as shown in the prior post) would lead to a huge CFR unless somehow those with sufficient vitamin D accounted for an outrageous proportion of cases. Which numbers are wrong?

[bodywhomper]

But don’t let any of that hinder nude sunbathing. I always used Vit D to justify myself to the kids. My neighbors sometimes get pretty bummed, though….

[old_newguy]

The Vit D thing is a hot topic with the usual anti-vaccination “experts”. To the point that they portray it as being so urgent that you should go out and spend money to get a blood test to determine your levels.

They think it’s practically criminal that the CDC isn’t recommending a Vit D regimen for everyone above a certain latitude.

Interestingly, recently they have started to run out of material for COVID so now are branching out into medicalization of pregnancy, etc. I fully expect them to turn their sights on other routine vaccinations now that they have an audience.

[jono]

Rhonda Patrick isn't one of those, but the link is old, who knows, maybe they're just finding it now.

[old_newguy]

Rhonda Patrick isn't one of those, but the link is old, who knows, maybe they're just finding it now.

I don’t think the Vit D thing is new, it’s been bouncing around since last summer.


Like most things, there is some truth buried in all the shit. With the anti vaccine crowd, it’s that there may be alternative ways to prevent or reduce the risk of serious COVID infections. The problem is that since they are so ideologically opposed to vaccination they have to inflate the danger of the vaccination, minimize the danger of COVID and inflate the value of non-vaccine approaches to the point that they no longer are credible.

[old goat]

Something funny going on in those numbers. If 70% of people have D insufficiency and 40% have deficiency, 88% and 98% fatality among those two groups (as shown in the prior post) would lead to a huge CFR unless somehow those with sufficient vitamin D accounted for an outrageous proportion of cases. Which numbers are wrong?

According to the numbers Kaiser uses--insufficiency is less than 20. deficiency less than 12. I don't know what fraction of the population have those levels.

[XXX-er]

I don’t think the Vit D thing is new, it’s been bouncing around since last summer.


Like most things, there is some truth buried in all the shit. With the anti vaccine crowd, it’s that there may be alternative ways to prevent or reduce the risk of serious COVID infections. The problem is that since they are so ideologically opposed to vaccination they have to inflate the danger of the vaccination, minimize the danger of COVID and inflate the value of non-vaccine approaches to the point that they no longer are credible.

yeah this ^^ my aniti vax buddy with the dreads was on about vitamin D for a long time now and something else alternative, I havent seen her cuz she can't get in the craft brew but she does have a Tiki-bar in her back yard so that might be where " they " hang out

[jono]

That makes more sense, OG.

2% survival rate for the D-deficient seems a little unlikely, too, but again, it's a post from the days of maximum mayhem. Figures the covidioten would be reading it now, though.

[Dantheman]

I don’t think the Vit D thing is new, it’s been bouncing around since last summer.


Like most things, there is some truth buried in all the shit. With the anti vaccine crowd, it’s that there may be alternative ways to prevent or reduce the risk of serious COVID infections. The problem is that since they are so ideologically opposed to vaccination they have to inflate the danger of the vaccination, minimize the danger of COVID and inflate the value of non-vaccine approaches to the point that they no longer are credible.

Rhonda is not anti-COVID vaccine. She has repeatedly said that vaccination is the single best way to protect yourself against COVID and has done all she can on her show and other platforms to dispel COVID vaccine misinformation. Pretty much everything she says is bankable.

[old_newguy]

Rhonda is not anti-COVID vaccine. She has repeatedly said that vaccination is the single best way to protect yourself against COVID and has done all she can on her show and other platforms to dispel COVID vaccine misinformation. Pretty much everything she says is bankable.

Sorry, my earlier wasn’t pointed at R. Patrick. There are other voices out there pushing the Vit D thing hard as a substitute for vaccination.

[teletech]

Here’s an article that says natural immunity is better than the vaccine
https://www.science.org/content/arti...-remains-vital

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...ccine-mandate/

[Skidog]

Here’s an article that says natural immunity is better than the vaccine
https://www.science.org/content/arti...-remains-vital

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...ccine-mandate/

Fake news....who wants to report him before me?

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[teletech]

SkiDog is back!!!!!!!!

The Washington post is as woke as they come.

Why can’t it be vitamin d + healthy eating + exercise + the vaccine is best. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing

[CarlMega]

SkiDog is back!!!!!!!!

The Washington post is as woke as they come.

Any mention of the Israeli study and subsequent misleading conclusions (like "perspectives" opinion articles) will always draw him out. Unsurprisingly, you found each other.

[teletech]

Why is the Israeli study false? It shows natural immunity is 13 times more effective than vaccine. It had more participants than the cdc study. What am I missing?
https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/new...ovid-vaccines/

[old_newguy]

Here’s an article that says natural immunity is better than the vaccine
https://www.science.org/content/arti...-remains-vital

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...ccine-mandate/

It also has a bunch of scientists basically saying don’t be an idiot and not get the vaccine.

[teletech]

This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity,” said the Israeli study. “Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.”

[CarlMega]

Why is the Israeli study false? It shows natural immunity is 13 times more effective than vaccine. It had more participants than the cdc study. What am I missing?
https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/new...ovid-vaccines/

It has been hashed thru, in this very thread, many, many times. I don't have the patience but maybe MV will help you interpret the data, usefulness and put it in context here.

[teletech]

The CDC study only focuses on individuals who are hospitalized, i.e., people who contract disease serious enough to get them hospitalized. This means the participants may not represent the general population, Dowdy says.

“Long story short, this is not a representative population of people who are vaccinated or people who had COVID before,” Dowdy says. “I’m not sure that I would necessarily have any reason to believe that it’s more likely to be biased or in favor of the vaccine as opposed to previous immunity, but it certainly runs the risk of being biased. And the number you would get here is not the number you would get in the general population

[bodywhomper]

How about vaxing and taint tanning?! Win/win for everybody?

[teletech]

Vitamin d (sunshine) is supposed to be more effective If received on the butthole. Your 3x more likely to have worse covid symptoms if your obese. It’s not vax or nothing.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infecti.../covid19/95136

[Skidog]

Why is the Israeli study false? It shows natural immunity is 13 times more effective than vaccine. It had more participants than the cdc study. What am I missing?
https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/new...ovid-vaccines/

Misinformation. That's strike 2 buster

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[Skidog]

I've seen the light tgr. I hope you will allow me to re-ASSimilate to the hive mind.

My 9 yr old is scheduled for vax #1 Nov 20. I mean 66 kids in last 12 months dead from covid is fucking scary. That's a stat from today's CDC presser. You can go watch yourself.

ETA: more kids died from the flu 2019-2020 with all covid restrictions in place
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/2...h-new-high.htm

#vaxemall
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[old goat]

The biggest problem I have is in understanding the study group. Did the previously infected group include asymptomatic, symptomatic, and symptomatic hospitalized people or were one or more of these subgroups absent? In other words, do the findings of the study apply to people who had a positive PCR but no or very mild symptoms? Does the nature of the previous infection matter for later immunity? What was the testing regimen in Israel at the time of the study and what were the chances of asymptomatic infection being detected? This matters, because if only or mostly people who had bad previous infections were included than people who had asymptomatic or mild infections might falsely believe that they are protected.

What is the nature of the breakthrough or recurrent infections? Asymptomatic, symptomatic, hospitalization, or death? From an epidemiologic standpoint it doesn't matter that much, because all of the above can spread the virus, but it would be good to know.

Nonetheless the Israeli study is pretty convincing as a retrospective population based study. If the data is supported by other studies it is good news because it means that eventually we may be able to reduce the Rt to less than 1, meaning covid will stop spreading through the community (but it won't be gone.) That will depend also on vaccinating children, at least before school age if not earlier.

It shouldn't surprise people that infection is protective. Back before the vaccine and before the politicization of vaccination (and before Delta) that is what we all hoped. Natural immunity means immunity to multiple viral antigens, not just the spike protein, which may be especially important with Delta since it was reported that the vaccines were highly protective against Delta, but not as protective as against the initial strain. Also, natural infection probably stimulates immunity in the nose and throat--the portal of entry of the virus. While the injected vaccines still produce some immunity there, it would not be as high as natural infection will cause. This kind of immunity is a lot harder to measure than just serum antibody levels.

I know people are concerned that this kind of information may discourage people from getting vaccinated. I would counter that those people will find any rationalization they can to not be vaccinated and depriving them of one will not prevent that. Not being transparent does great harm to the credibility of the scientific and health care establishment.

This issue needs to be continuously studied and reevaluated. No one study is definitive.