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  1. #12626
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Then perhaps they should have just said that instead of literally telling us that masks were unnecessary. Not a good look when they admit to having lied to us, no matter the motives.

    Look throughout US history about the many, many lies the government has made. From the Tuskegee Syphilis Study to WMDs in Iraq. And then when they literally TELL us they "had" to lie to save PPE, you guys wonder how the public trust has been eroded over time? I'm NOT saying they're wrong on vaccinations et al, but with people being more aware of the government's past shenanigans than ever before, you can't blame people for having reservations. That's all.
    So if you understand this, why continue railing about the past? Are you saying people arenít capable of adjusting their perspective when faced with facts? There are a lot of past wrongs perpetrated by government but there are also countless good things that have come about after people reflect on the good and bad. I donít look at the recommendations of just our CDC, NIH and what I see in the headlines, I look at whatís going on around the world and what other countries are doing, what works, what doesnít and what the data suggests. I would hope people could look at things objectively but I no longer think thatís possible for the vast majority of Americans. There truly is a scientific consensus that our best option is vaccination, not one of the best but the best. All the other bullshit treatments have no basis at all. Weíre really good at keeping people with Covid, both vaccinated and unvaccinated, alive when they should be dead. We know what treatments work. No serious ICU doctors are using HCQ, Ivermectin and whatever else snake oil people think might work, period.

    It seems as though this argument you and others are making is just to avoid admitting that you are wrong and to stick it to the man. It makes no logical sense. Iím really not sure about mandates but at this point I donít care anymore. I donít want to see people die from a completely avoidable(statistically)disease but if people donít want to get vaccinated they better be able to live with their choice. Weíll do everything we can for them until we run out of resources and there will likely be some collateral losses along the way but ďit is what it isĒ right?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  2. #12627
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Then perhaps they should have just said that instead of literally telling us that masks were unnecessary. Not a good look when they admit to having lied to us, no matter the motives.
    A couple of thoughts. There was a lot of misinformation coming out of the Trump administration at that time, and the mask guidance was both part of that misinformation and also due to limited supply as others have pointed out. The anti-mask movement then took on political significance when during the presidential campaign Trump decided to take a stance that masks were pointless. He got COVID, almost died, and stuck to his guns on anti-masking. If you recall, back at the start of the pandemic when mask supplies were low people were making their own out of cloth, there were lots of discussions about what fabrics work best, how to make them, etc. I know we (my family) made our own and are still using them to this day.

    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Well, this didn't age well. From Feb of last year:
    "Meh. Only N95's work for viruses." "Be more worried about the flu."

    And you guys wonder why people question things. Many of these things didn't start out as right-wing talking points. They were said by St. Fauci himself, and parroted by much of the media. Not that science hasn't changed as we learned more. I get that. But many here are wrong by acting like it's just anti-vax Trumpsters who started these talking points. Unless by right-wing talking points, you meant Fauci, NYT, WaPo, etc.
    You get that as more information is known that we change our views on these things? It would be very dumb of the CDC to stick to it's initial statements always and never change when they get new information. I hope you're able to understand this. Misrepresenting things in the way you do consistently around here is really unhelpful. I hope you got your vaccines and wear masks when asked to.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  3. #12628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    I tried to order an ironic coffee at the OG Cruisin today, but all they gave me was regular coffee.

    So disappointed.
    Cruisin jumped the shark quite a while ago. Its like bad Starbucks but they server milkshakes

  4. #12629
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    I think the mask question was more complicated and nuanced during the early weeks of the pandemic that MF keeps harping on. However, given the state of our Protective Gear supply chain, the smart and responsible thing to do was to lie to the American public if that helped get a few more boxes to hospital staff rather than east bumfuck that had yet to see any infections. The TP situation made that pretty clear.
    Last edited by mcski; 09-16-2021 at 04:14 PM.

  5. #12630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deebased View Post
    Cruisin jumped the shark quite a while ago. Its like bad Starbucks but they server milkshakes
    So does Starbucks.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  6. #12631
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    Gotta think part if this is people who still believe they were lied to about the election (and or other things "official") not trusting vax info. Then, there's the other folks who are so pissed off about losing that they're willing to burn it all down not caring if they infect others.. Those are the anti vax AND anti maskers..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  7. #12632
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    So if you understand this, why continue railing about the past? Are you saying people arenít capable of adjusting their perspective when faced with facts? There are a lot of past wrongs perpetrated by government but there are also countless good things that have come about after people reflect on the good and bad. I donít look at the recommendations of just our CDC, NIH and what I see in the headlines, I look at whatís going on around the world and what other countries are doing, what works, what doesnít and what the data suggests. I would hope people could look at things objectively but I no longer think thatís possible for the vast majority of Americans. There truly is a scientific consensus that our best option is vaccination, not one of the best but the best. All the other bullshit treatments have no basis at all. Weíre really good at keeping people with Covid, both vaccinated and unvaccinated, alive when they should be dead. We know what treatments work. No serious ICU doctors are using HCQ, Ivermectin and whatever else snake oil people think might work, period.

    It seems as though this argument you and others are making is just to avoid admitting that you are wrong and to stick it to the man. It makes no logical sense. Iím really not sure about mandates but at this point I donít care anymore. I donít want to see people die from a completely avoidable(statistically)disease but if people donít want to get vaccinated they better be able to live with their choice. Weíll do everything we can for them until we run out of resources and there will likely be some collateral losses along the way but ďit is what it isĒ right?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Youíll be shocked to learn that Montucky likes to bring up rich peoples flying habits when discussing climate change as an argument against the science.

    Itís a pattern. I wish we would stop responding to it.

    The mask thing has been settled for a long time at this point. I canít believe we are even discussing it seriously.

  8. #12633
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Gotta think part if this is people who still believe they were lied to about the election (and or other things "official") not trusting vax info. Then, there's the other folks who are so pissed off about losing that they're willing to burn it all down not caring if they infect others.. Those are the anti vax AND anti maskers..
    And that's sort of the vibe I get from MF and others...rather than doing what is obvious (getting vaccinated) they try to find reasons to question vaccination/masking with the ultimate goal of it burning it all down...that's the only logical conclusion of their arguments. I guess we should be nice and keep entertaining their outlandish ideas on vaccination and masking with the hope that by being nice they'll eventually see the light.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  9. #12634
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    I wish the Montucky/mtu /etc pushing their distrust narrative would realize that they are viewed as the ones who are dishonest, uneducated and untrustworthy and that the rest of us are sick of it.

  10. #12635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deebased View Post
    Cruisin jumped the shark quite a while ago. Its like bad Starbucks but they server milkshakes
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    So does Starbucks.
    Unlike Starbucks, their shakes are actually good.

    IMO Crusin has always been inconsistent whereas Starbucks has been a long slow steady decline to the point where they're pretty much my last resort.

  11. #12636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    I guess we should be nice and keep entertaining their outlandish ideas on vaccination and masking with the hope that by being nice they'll eventually see the light.
    Doesn't that confuse the issue?
    One can be reasonable about insisting that some views are bogus without deteriorating into abject abuse.

    There's a difference.

    At the same time, I fully respect, acknowledge and experience the fatigue that brings about sometimes hostile and entertaining responses.

    Asshole.
    .
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    .
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    .
    .
    .
    ;-)
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  12. #12637
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    So if you understand this, why continue railing about the past? Are you saying people aren’t capable of adjusting their perspective when faced with facts?
    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    bECAuSe FauCI LiEd bRO
    They got a name for the winners in the world

    http://procatinator.com/?cat=80

  13. #12638
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    Fuck this thread is tiresome. You guys realize that you're basically arguing with a heard of cats, right?

  14. #12639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Fuck this thread is tiresome. You guys realize that you're basically arguing with a heard of cats, right?
    This falls on deaf ears.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  15. #12640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    You guys realize that you're basically arguing with a heard of cats, right?
    I've heard of cats, yes.

  16. #12641
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    This falls on deaf ears.
    Ha! That's good.

  17. #12642
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    Yes. But it is easier bullshitting here while procrastinating large work projects. Not changing any hearts and minds and I get that. But I also don't get to call someone an asshole for their views repeatedly IRL.

  18. #12643
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    I've heard of cats, yes.
    f'kn auto-complete! I'm going to leave it. It's funnier this way.

  19. #12644
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    You get that as more information is known that we change our views on these things?
    Perhaps you need to repeat first grade, because you obviously can't read. Literally from your quote of me:
    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried
    Not that science hasn't changed as we learned more. I get that.
    I know it's impossible to convey things properly over the interwebs when you obviously don't read posts in their entireties, but I was NOT making the case against mask use or vaccines. I'm simply trying to explain why the public trust for the government just isn't where it could be on this topic. Inconsistent message from the beginning goes a long way toward that end. "Get vaccinated so you don't have to wear a mask!" Cool. Got both shots. Now what? 2 minutes later: "JK LOL." - "Masks won't do a thing." Ok. "Oh wait. Nevermind. We were lying. They're super duper important." - "Be more worried about the flu." Ok. "Oh shit. Nvrmnd. Ends up Covid's pretty bad." - "Stay at home, wear a mask, and don't ever see your friends again. No beaches for you." Ok. Makes sense I guess. "Lol. Just me and the boys chillin' at da French Laundry. No masks or distancing for us!" Wait, wut?!

    What clearly isn't helping either is the political polarization of our country. Both sides are guilty of this. Trump says "Vaccine's coming out soon." Kamala says "If Donald Trump says to take it, then I'm not taking it." Biden himself warned against the rushing of a vaccine, did he not? The hesitancy wasn't purely right-leaning as you may believe.

  20. #12645
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Biden himself warned against the rushing of a vaccine, did he not? The hesitancy wasn't purely right-leaning as you may believe.
    Wait, I thought that was just Biden and the deep state stealing the launch of the vaccines from der fuhrer.. so IQ45 would lose his erection..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  21. #12646
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    Bobby Stainless sells Ferraris. I still like Ferraris.

  22. #12647
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    ďPoliticians lie or bend the truth and that confuses the situation!Ē

    also says ďTexas and Florida are doing just fine!Ē

  23. #12648
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    I know it's impossible to convey things properly over the interwebs when you obviously don't read posts in their entireties, but I was NOT making the case against mask use or vaccines. I'm simply trying to explain why the public trust for the government just isn't where it could be on this topic. Inconsistent message from the beginning goes a long way toward that end. "Get vaccinated so you don't have to wear a mask!" Cool. Got both shots. Now what? 2 minutes later: "JK LOL." - "Masks won't do a thing." Ok. "Oh wait. Nevermind. We were lying. They're super duper important." - "Be more worried about the flu." Ok. "Oh shit. Nvrmnd. Ends up Covid's pretty bad." - "Stay at home, wear a mask, and don't ever see your friends again. No beaches for you." Ok. Makes sense I guess. "Lol. Just me and the boys chillin' at da French Laundry. No masks or distancing for us!" Wait, wut?!

    What clearly isn't helping either is the political polarization of our country. Both sides are guilty of this. Trump says "Vaccine's coming out soon." Kamala says "If Donald Trump says to take it, then I'm not taking it." Biden himself warned against the rushing of a vaccine, did he not? The hesitancy wasn't purely right-leaning as you may believe.
    You are understating the role of propaganda. Propagandists create disinformation by taking advantage of the children's game of telephone: 1) Scientists and researchers provide deep background knowledge within their areas of expertise emphasizing accuracy & uncertainty including caveats over concrete conclusions. 2) Writers and journalists grasp and choose to highlight what they think is important while also taking dramatic license to elevate entertainment. 3) Finally, there's what the nonexpert reader takes away.

    To use your example "Be more worried about the flu," what was actually conveyed back in February 2000 is that while the flu presents a greater immediate risk, and even though the SARS2 risk is low right now, that could change ... this could evolve into a global pandemic.

    People heedlessly repeating political messaging are a big part of the problem because you reinforce misinformation like "Be more worried about the flu" while leaving out "this could evolve into a global pandemic."

  24. #12649
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    I wish the Montucky/mtu /etc pushing their distrust narrative would realize that they are viewed as the ones who are dishonest, uneducated and untrustworthy and that the rest of us are sick of it.
    The stock response to this is:

    Everyone is awful, I’m just honest about it.

    Rolleyes

    It’s an impenetrable psychological superstructure of circular reasoning around a core of nonsense.

  25. #12650
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    At the end of the day (yes everyone hates that phrase).. At the end of the day.. probably 90% of everyone pro vaccine still would be vaxxed if Trump had been declared the winner. Add in 100% of the folks bellyaching about their free dumb right now, In short. We'd do it for you (and everyone else) but you won't do it for us (and everyone else)..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

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