To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Kinnikinnick]

Yeah, but then sick and old people would likely find themselves without enough people to care for them at all. We definitely need to let go of the notion that HC workers across the spectrum are any different or "smarter" than the average person. Clearly that is not the case. As a society we seem to believe that providing direct care to the sick and old among us is one of the worst jobs a person can have, as reflected in the pay and level of respect given to those who spend the most time with patients (mostly nursing assistants). So we get what we get.

Not if you mandate it.

Those antivaxxers won’t commit financial suicide by not working.

Won’t happen.




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[alpinevibes]

It's bizarre, isn't it? They don't trust vaccines that have now been administered five billion times, but they're perfectly willing to try any other kind of screwball treatment because someone on Facebook said it worked for their sister's boss' daughter. The more vetted something is, the less they believe it. Truly the Bizarro World.

This all circles back to "my choice/my solution vs the government's forced solution," no matter how convoluted the route to their solution is.

The mindset (and fear driving it) is all predicated on the need for control and individual "liberty." Social media and online dissemination has massively fueled the spread of unvetted and idiotic ideology among people who are already predisposed to poor judgement: People with an inability to critical think, an inability to understand the scientific/research/medical processes, a fixed low-IQ, people who can't confront their own emotions/self-image and are hung up on their own pride to not change their position and unfortunately many people who, through the mechanisms of our society, have been pushed into a position to distrust and inability to integrate into the majority mindset of modern American/Western World ideology.

[Skidog]

Now that's done, I can't wait for the coming pathetic narrative adjustment. Will they still use the phrase: "experimental vaccine" and the like?

Naaaa now it goes back to the "rushed process" narrative.

[XXX-er]

I know acquaintances at the local bar who will drop some MDMA or swig Acid laced water from a pop bottle that they bought off a sketchy local criminal

but they aint gona get the Vax

[LegoSkier]

It's bizarre, isn't it? They don't trust vaccines that have now been administered five billion times, but they're perfectly willing to try any other kind of screwball treatment because someone on Facebook said it worked for their sister's boss' daughter. The more vetted something is, the less they believe it. Truly the Bizarro World.

A hippy woman in my FB network (from burning man) is a is anti-vax. She got the covid and is now 2+ weeks of missing work, no smell, tired all the time, etc. Nothing serious but she's trying all the stuff...colloidal silver, herbs, etc. now she's even going for a "sound bath". I really want to lay into her but just watching this comedy of errors on FB is reward enough.

[The AD]

The mindset (and fear driving it) is all predicated on the need for control and individual "liberty."

Yet these are many of the same people who've made a big deal out of things like Vietnam era draft dodgers. Seems like they're awfully selective about which "government forced solutions" they're okay with and which ones they aren't.

[riser4]

A hippy woman in my FB network (from burning man) is a is anti-vax. She got the covid and is now 2+ weeks of missing work, no smell, tired all the time, etc. Nothing serious but she's trying all the stuff...colloidal silver, herbs, etc. now she's even going for a "sound bath". I really want to lay into her but just watching this comedy of errors on FB is reward enough.

Wait. A sound bath??? WTF is that??? And while it won't cure her covid, she probably needs a real bath.

[bodywhomper]

Not if you mandate it.

Those antivaxxers won’t commit financial suicide by not working.

Won’t happen.




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In my area, I’m starting to see divisions. Several schools or classes quarantined last week after one week of school. Parents had to stay home from work with their quarantined kids. I’ve witnessed some of these parents change and lessen their rhetoric.

Some parents (and non-parents) seem to think that the kids should be able to be in school (w/o masks) regardless of whether they are sick. I think they may be pushing for stricter lockdowns so that they can hit the streets with guns out (literally). It’s a fucking shame. Using children as their pawns.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

In my area, I’m starting to see divisions. Several schools or classes quarantined last week after one week of school. Parents had to stay home from work with their quarantined kids. I’ve witnessed some of these parents change and lessen their rhetoric.

Some parents (and non-parents) seem to think that the kids should be able to be in school (w/o masks) regardless of whether they are sick. I think they may be pushing for stricter lockdowns so that they can hit the streets with guns out (literally). It’s a fucking shame. Using children as their pawns.

They’re pissed that their state sponsored child care is being fucked with. Do you really think these idiots care about education? Kids don’t care about masks and are incredibly resilient


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[bodywhomper]

They’re pissed that their state sponsored child care is being fucked with. Do you really think these idiots care about education? Kids don’t care about masks and are incredibly resilient


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I totally agree. This is fodder for the insurgent peeps.

[alpinevibes]

Yet these are many of the same people who've made a big deal out of things like Vietnam era draft dodgers. Seems like they're awfully selective about which "government forced solutions" they're okay with and which ones they aren't.

my morning rant [after watching the NYT video and listening to the TAL podcast]:

It all aligns with the rebirth of libertarianism and the tea party mindset over the last decade (which then connects to MAGA, Far-Right movements, Preppers and even the stereotypical G.O.T.O.S type guy). Someone who has a dated and unrealistic view of what America currently is and how it should function. Someone who has been baited and manipulated by opportunistic, desperate and avarice-entranced hucksters, seizing on their fears, their desires for nostalgia and inability to confront a rapidly evolving world that is leaving their place lower on the ladder.

Post-great recession, Wall Street and the rich walked away better than anti-elitists had hoped, while the white middle class was dealt a blow and left stagnate. The inability to curtail and halt the ascent of the rich/the other led to a blossoming of anti-immigrant, anti-equality, anti-wOkE cretins who doubled down on backing themselves into a corner. They think patriotism is embodied through connecting to the unrealistic caricature of America in 1776, patriotism is fighting supposed enemies overseas and suppressing imagined enemies within our borders, patriotism is suppressing dissenting views and challenging conversations. They think the the road to their own prosperity is paved with traditional means, values and avoiding change, actual personal responsibility, mental health, etc etc.

In 30 years when the previously prosperous and numerous Boomers have moved on and the Latino and other immigrant growth has continued to accelerate, America will be a very different place.



This data is 3+ years old, and while we wait for current census data and covid death irregularities to be analyzed, the non-white acceleration has increased - https://www.brookings.edu/research/n...han-predicted/

[skiJ]

I considered linking this post to a couple of recent entries ,
but in a determined effort not to 'call anyone out' or 'shoot the messenger' ,
I will try to let it stand on it's own - -

I am trying to see an attempt by some to promote vaccination to those who have not yet received it - and
I am having a hard time seeing it -
name calling is not going to get it done -

If we start by referring to people as 'white trash' or 'antivaxxers' , we have no audience -

I am, ,,, sympathetic to the disappointment many feel.


I believe a lot of the resistance can be traced the the claims of the people these people still look to for leadership :
that covid is a hoax, that it is nothing more that ' a mild flu' , that the vaccine is a sinister plot ;

the Government has not mandated vaccination for it's citizens ( it may be in the process of mandating for government employees - it is my understanding, the law does allow that. If I do not like the Conditions of my employment, I am free to look elsewhere. )


my suggestion to promote the vaccine is two-fold :
- set the example ; Be vaccinated. and quietly acknowledge that we are vaccinated, and believe the vaccine will reduce the incidence, reduce the severity, and,,, reduce the spread of the virus ; and

- Be Patient. name-calling ,,, will eliminate a potential audience - If what we are trying to do is get more people to vaccinate, t-h-e-y have to have a reason that is important to [them] ! arguments that are not persuasive to them are wasted !


I empathize with your disappointment ; I know someone who died of covid ( no doubt - diagnosed two weeks before she died ( had risk factors. I knew when I was told she had covid, it was going to be Dangerous. ... she died ( last December - at sixty ) ) ;

to the skeptics and the critics, I say, "I hope You don't die of covid - and I hope no one you love dies of covid. "

and I set an example. ... and
I try to cope with my disappointment. ( and the anger that results - )


peacefully. tj

[mfcf13]

The two major hospital networks in this area (upstate SC) are working together to roll out a vaccine mandate at the same time to mitigate employee migration. Pathetic something like that is needed. Even then it is largely toothless. Another hospital across the state with a mandate in place quoted 2-3,000 medical or religious exemptions already granted for 17,000 staff.

Sending positive vibes from Washington state, where it's a statewide mandate for healthcare workers. Hospitals don't have to do that sort of walking on egg shells.

I'm still not understanding he religious exemption. It's an mRNA vaccine, so no stem cells, no embryos involved in production. And the fucking pope came out in support of vaccines. It sort of makes a mockery of religion when it's used that way. Next time I get pulled over for speeding, I am telling the officer that I have a religious exemption from speeding tickets.

[The AD]

I'm still not understanding he religious exemption. It's an mRNA vaccine, so no stem cells, no embryos involved in production.

Yeah, the only one I can think of that is probably against vaccines of any kind is Christian Science.

[TBS]

Appears that only JWs and Dutch Reformed Church members (and faith healing congregations) can apply for religious exemption
https://www.kxly.com/who-qualifies-f...id-19-vaccine/

[jono]

Not JW's. Not since 1952, apparently.

[KQ]

Wait. A sound bath??? WTF is that??? And while it won't cure her covid, she probably needs a real bath.

[KQ]

Yeah, the only one I can think of that is probably against vaccines of any kind is Christian Science.

You'd think so but nope.

Concern for public health and safety is something that all responsible people share—including Christian Scientists. Grateful as we are to live in communities where honest differences can be respected, Christian Scientists are also mindful of the obligations all citizens have to respect the rights of others in their communities.

For more than a century, our denomination has counseled respect for public health authorities and conscientious obedience to the laws of the land, including those requiring vaccination. Christian Scientists report suspected communicable disease, obey quarantines, and strive to cooperate with measures considered necessary by public health officials. We see this as a matter of basic Golden Rule ethics and New Testament love.

As for the issue of exemptions for vaccination in the law, Christian Scientists’ perspective on this issue may be unique. In the past, many public officials have been broadly supportive of exemptions when these have not been considered a danger to the wider community. In more recent years, public health concerns relating to vaccinations have risen as exemptions from them have been claimed by larger numbers. Christian Scientists recognize the seriousness of these concerns.

Most of our church members normally rely on prayer for healing. It’s a deeply considered spiritual practice and way of life that has meant a lot to us over the years. So we’ve appreciated vaccination exemptions and sought to use them conscientiously and responsibly, when they have been granted.

On the other hand, our practice isn’t a dogmatic thing. Church members are free to make their own choices on all life-decisions, in obedience to the law, including whether or not to vaccinate their children. These aren’t decisions imposed by their church.

The public controversy over vaccination has produced strong opinions—and strong divisions—on the competing concerns of public health and toleration of diversity. Whatever the right answer may be for any community, Christian Scientists hope that their long experience as a religious minority working in cooperation with society’s majority might point to the possibility of resolutions based on mutual respect and understanding in the best interest of all.

And most of all, we hope that our collective care and effort can promote public health and healing to all affected by disease and contagion around the world.

[mfcf13]

Appears that only JWs and Dutch Reformed Church members (and faith healing congregations) can apply for religious exemption
https://www.kxly.com/who-qualifies-f...id-19-vaccine/

Considering that "here's how to get your religious exemption" is pretty much trending on the interwebz.
And considering that those two denominations don't allow their adherents to hang out on social media, it would appear that there are a lot of people from other denominations who are going to be falsely calling themselves JW's and Dutch Reformed.

[summit]

If Medicare would just declare that it was mandatory across the board for healthcare workers to get vaccinated or else facilities would no longer receive reimbursement it wouldn’t be an issue. There would be no place for these unvaccinated to go work. They already do this for other issues.

CMS doesn't mandate flu. Most hospitals do mandate flu vaccine.

We do report flu vaccine numbers to CDC which are reported to CMS. And now we will also report COVID vaccine numbers to CDC and then to CMS. So, you local newspaper could report on the local hospitals vaccine rate.

[uglymoney]

[XXX-er]

The Onion ? ^^

[MagnificentUnicorn]

CMS doesn't mandate flu. Most hospitals do mandate flu vaccine.

We do report flu vaccine numbers to CDC which are reported to CMS. And now we will also report COVID vaccine numbers to CDC and then to CMS. So, you local newspaper could report on the local hospitals vaccine rate.

I get that, but there are other things that CMS required for providers to get reimbursement. It wouldn’t be that hard.


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[rideit]

[schuss]

I considered linking this post to a couple of recent entries ,
but in a determined effort not to 'call anyone out' or 'shoot the messenger' ,
I will try to let it stand on it's own - -

I am trying to see an attempt by some to promote vaccination to those who have not yet received it - and
I am having a hard time seeing it -
name calling is not going to get it done -

If we start by referring to people as 'white trash' or 'antivaxxers' , we have no audience -

I am, ,,, sympathetic to the disappointment many feel.


I believe a lot of the resistance can be traced the the claims of the people these people still look to for leadership :
that covid is a hoax, that it is nothing more that ' a mild flu' , that the vaccine is a sinister plot ;

the Government has not mandated vaccination for it's citizens ( it may be in the process of mandating for government employees - it is my understanding, the law does allow that. If I do not like the Conditions of my employment, I am free to look elsewhere. )


my suggestion to promote the vaccine is two-fold :
- set the example ; Be vaccinated. and quietly acknowledge that we are vaccinated, and believe the vaccine will reduce the incidence, reduce the severity, and,,, reduce the spread of the virus ; and

- Be Patient. name-calling ,,, will eliminate a potential audience - If what we are trying to do is get more people to vaccinate, t-h-e-y have to have a reason that is important to [them] ! arguments that are not persuasive to them are wasted !


I empathize with your disappointment ; I know someone who died of covid ( no doubt - diagnosed two weeks before she died ( had risk factors. I knew when I was told she had covid, it was going to be Dangerous. ... she died ( last December - at sixty ) ) ;

to the skeptics and the critics, I say, "I hope You don't die of covid - and I hope no one you love dies of covid. "

and I set an example. ... and
I try to cope with my disappointment. ( and the anger that results - )


peacefully. tj

You know what - a lot of us are really fucking done with the toddler crowd disrupting everything for their ignorance. In my school board the only to vote against masking for unvaxxed kids had only the reason of "well, it's #6 on an unordered list of safety measures, so it's not important".
Fuck that. We could have avoided hundreds of thousands of deaths and we didn't. Those people don't get to feel anymore and died a horrible, lonely death of respiratory issues. I wish that on no one.
We have a base responsibility to keep each other safe as humans the best we can, and far too many have forgotten that in favor of selfish thoughts that bear no resemblance to reality.
As far as I'm concerned, ban anyone not vaccinated from any workplace or public place unless physically unable (due to autoimmune etc) or until the virus is gone. Instead, all of us with kids that can't get vaxxed yet or vulnerable family members just have to send them into daily minefields. Why them and not the objectors? Why isn't the burden on the cause?