To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[CarlMega]

asspan lieing with covid misinformation, what’s new?

Worth calling out the article context was 'preventing infection'. No reference on outcomes (death/hospitalization).

[Percy Rideout]

asspan lieing with covid misinformation, what’s new?

1. I'm referencing a CNN article, that's the gold standard of "trusted" of a "news source" as you authoritarians prefer.

2. In YOUR quote: ""Yet, this is probably not enough for the Omicron."

Bill Gates came out and addressed a few points about the limitations of our current vaccines:

"The vaccines we have prevent severe disease and death very well but they are missing two key things.

First they still allow infections ("breakthrough") and the duration appears to be limited.

We need vaccines that prevent re-infection and have many years of duration.#" -Bill Gates


Like I said on page 200 of this debate: When does the vaccine version 2.0 come out? Version 1.0 doesn't seem up to the task anymore.

[Adolf Allerbush]

1. I'm referencing a CNN article, that's about as "trusted" of a "news source" as you authoritarians prefer.

2. In YOUR quote: ""Yet, this is probably not enough for the Omicron."

Bill Gates came out and addressed a few points about the limitations of our current vaccines:

"The vaccines we have prevent severe disease and death very well but they are missing two key things.

First they still allow infections ("breakthrough") and the duration appears to be limited.

We need vaccines that prevent re-infection and have many years of duration.#" -Bill Gates


Like I said on page 200 of this debate: When does the vaccine version 2.0 come out? Version 1.0 doesn't seem up to the task anymore.

You and Bill will continue to be disappointed in all likelihood. Here's a document you may find useful in understanding how vaccines work: https://www.who.int/ith/chapters/ith...chap6.pdf?ua=1

Vaccination and other precautions
Despite their success in preventing disease, vaccines rarely protect 100% of the
recipients. The traveller should not assume that there is no risk of contracting the
disease(s) against which he/she has been vaccinated. For example, immunization is not a
substitute for avoiding potentially contaminated food and water. Therefore, all additional
precautions against infection should be carefully considered (Chapter 3).

One of the infectious disease experts on here (i.e., not you or me) can clarify this more if you need I'm sure. My understanding is that there aren't that many vaccines that provide sterilizing immunity which is what you are wanting...to be honest, we all want that right? It's just not very likely.

Another article you might find useful: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...ccines/620023/

COVID-19 vaccines were never going to give us sterilizing immunity; it’s possible they never will. But the reason isn’t just their design, or the wily nature of the virus, or heavy and frequent exposures, though those factors all play a role. It’s that sterilizing immunity itself might be a biological myth.

[skaredshtles]

If you guys put Asspen on ignore he can fuck that chicken all by himself and not pollute this thread with a constant stream of bullshit.

Please? Do it for the children...

[wooley12]

Good advice. That guy has a bee in his bonnet so I mercifully have him on ignore.

[Percy Rideout]

You and Bill will continue to be disappointed in all likelihood. Here's a document you may find useful in understanding how vaccines work: https://www.who.int/ith/chapters/ith...chap6.pdf?ua=1



One of the infectious disease experts on here (i.e., not you or me) can clarify this more if you need I'm sure. My understanding is that there aren't that many vaccines that provide sterilizing immunity which is what you are wanting...to be honest, we all want that right? It's just not very likely.

Another article you might find useful: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...ccines/620023/

We get it. It's like the flu vaccine. It doesn't prevent infection or transmission, but helps the individual experience milder symptoms and not require hospital care.

My and Bill Gates concern at this point is the poor DURATION of our current vaccines.

[Percy Rideout]

Good advice. That guy has a bee in his bonnet so I mercifully have him on ignore.

Stay in your echo chamber.

Your opinions were formed in an era when black people weren't allowed to patronize the same businesses as you. Times have changed. You can't buy a house and support a family as a one income factory worker anymore.

Your generation fucked up society, the environment, and the world for the rest of us.

Boomers will be looked on in history as the ME FIRST generation that lived through the easiest of times in American history, and all they did was consume consume consume and took out loans to be paid by their grandchildren with interest.

[huckbucket]

We get it. It's like the flu vaccine. It doesn't prevent infection or transmission, but helps the individual experience milder symptoms and not require hospital care.

My and Bill Gates concern at this point is the poor DURATION of our current vaccines.

There's nothing factual about the bold. If you don't understand why, then I suggest you consult an expert.

[skaredshtles]

There's nothing factual about the bold. If you don't understand why, then I suggest you consult an expert.

Please, good sir... use the Ignore function. Do it for the children...

[old goat]

You and Bill will continue to be disappointed in all likelihood. Here's a document you may find useful in understanding how vaccines work: https://www.who.int/ith/chapters/ith...chap6.pdf?ua=1



One of the infectious disease experts on here (i.e., not you or me) can clarify this more if you need I'm sure. My understanding is that there aren't that many vaccines that provide sterilizing immunity which is what you are wanting...to be honest, we all want that right? It's just not very likely.

Another article you might find useful: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...ccines/620023/

Wiping out a disease with a vaccine has only been accomplished once--smallpox. The world is close on polio but may never get there. All the other diseases we vaccinate for are still endemic, still infect unvaccinated and immunocompromised people, and require continued vaccination of children. The success in keeping the cases of an infectious disease to a minimum depend on how good the vaccine is and how many people are vaccinated.

As far as how good the vaccine is--a lot depends on how the virus continues to mutate. It is very likely that a better vaccine against omicron can be made fairly quickly, but whether this is a wise idea depends on whether omicron establishes itself as the or one of the persistent strains for longer than a few months. Given the frequency of breakthrough cases it seems to that if omicron is the strain we have to defend against in the long run, omicron vaccines will be needed.

Even if the vaccination is not completely protective your chances of getting the disease is very low if you are rarely exposed to it. That is the hope with Covid--that we can somehow manage to vaccinate enough people to make exposure rare.

It may turn out that covid is more like flu--continually mutating so that frequent revaccination is necessary, which would preclude vaccinating more than a fraction of the population. But it is way to soon to accept this. For now the biggest obstacle to controlling the virus as we have controlled diseases like measles and chickenpox is not scientific but the pigheadedness of the populace.

[Percy Rideout]

There's nothing factual about the bold. If you don't understand why, then I suggest you consult an expert.

Was the bucket on your head all last month? Omicron has changed the game.

[funkendrenchman]

Attachment 401712

to those who figure omicron is 'not that bad' and are just going to take your chances with omicron,
Please remember delta is still out there, And omicron is putting people in the hospital.

The current CDC estimate is that Delta is now .5% of all cases.

[wooley12]

So you agree. It's still here. Good

[teledad]

Maybe I missed it upthread, has there been data/ analysis remicron between 2x and 3x vax? And hospitalization rates comparing 2x and 3x vaxed for omicron?

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status...26194623086596

Latest data from @UKHSA for Omicron vaccine effectiveness vs hospitalization
Booster provides very high protection thru 10+ weeks
Without it, VE down to 44% by >6 months

[skiJ]

perhaps all we can do is repeatedly refute some of these claims -
The vaccine IS doing what it was designed to do ;
vaccination limits disease, and vaccination also reduces the spread of the disease, by limiting transmission by Vaccinated.

critics claim otherwise, and omicron certainly encourages the criticism ;

it is good that Mr. Gates has the means to promote vaccine technology
( I trust if the comments quoted above are genuine, funding for vaccine technology research is being provided ) ;


I reject the claims that vaccination is only of benefit to the individual -
I believe the models that project without vaccination, the USofA would likely have more than three million dead.
beyond the conflict that some people prefer, I do not understand the benefit to those who claim Not to be anti-vaccination, but use their energy to promote the anti-vaccination platform
...


oh. it's not like the flu vaccine.
If in 100 years it is like Influenza ,,, That will be disappointing .

Please get your booster
( delta is still out there, and don't kid yourself - omicron can be fatal. )

Please get your booster --

Thank you. tj

[altasnob]

For now the biggest obstacle to controlling the virus as we have controlled diseases like measles and chickenpox is not scientific but the pigheadedness of the populace.

Have you been paying attention to the vaccination rates in Africa and Eastern European countries? Is Africa's 5% vaccination rate because they are all pigheads?


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...s-tracker.html

I'll fix it for ya

For now the biggest obstacle to controlling the virus as we have controlled diseases like measles and chickenpox is not scientific but the pigheadedness of world leaders who have the means to vaccinate the world but only seem to care about their small corner of the globe.

[skiJ]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]401712


Figure 2 from the abstract cited above - I believe this is important information and shows the importance of boosters -

the right column of Chart C shows the benefit of the booster - I have been seeing numbers that show antibody response with the booster is 37% to 54% better than an initial vaccination series alone ;

to those who figure omicron is 'not that bad' and are just going to take your chances with omicron,
Please remember delta is still out there, And omicron is putting people in the hospital.


Thank you for the link, jono --

tj

- drenchman, I think I understand your point, and I do not understand what your goal is -

With booster rates under 25%, And waning immunity known since at least October, it is no surprise to me that omicron has spread - especially given it was quickly recognized to be 70% -80% More transmissible And immunity evasive.
from my perspective, the idea that 99% of the positives serotyped are omicron, does not mean the threat of delta is less given the exponential spread of covid, by a variant that is characterized as "immunity evasive. "

I will continue to promote vaccination - and any additional precautionary measures you choose -
I stand by my claim,
maintaining immunity through vaccination is important - That's my goal.

Please get your booster -
please Be well...

tj

[seano732]

Well we just got back from the great state of AZ………Absolutely zero fucks given with regards to Covid. No masks, no SD, nada…….The Mags who posted upthread some iteration of “this is over” are right, in a way. The assholes that DGAF will continue to not give a fuck, no matter what. Oh and the day we arrived, AZ passed 25000 dead and counting…….

[skiJ]

AZ seven-day rolling average is more than 18,000 new cases of covid daily -

remember what is required for the development of new variants ?

new cases and a susceptible population.

I hope I am not living in "fear"
( I don't think I am, but I am much more cautious than average.

new cases nationwide - more than 700,000 daily ( seven day average also more than 700,000 ) )

That's crazy.


tj

[funkendrenchman]

- drenchman, I think I understand your point, and I do not understand what your goal is -

My point is that Delta is still around, but barely. That's it.

Yes, get boosted and vaccinated. If everyone would just do that, we'd be in a different situation at the moment.

[seano732]

Yes, get boosted and vaccinated. If everyone would just do that, we'd be in a different situation at the moment.

Why do you hate freedom?

[The SnowShow]

Well we just got back from the great state of AZ………Absolutely zero fucks given with regards to Covid. No masks, no SD, nada…….The Mags who posted upthread some iteration of “this is over” are right, in a way. The assholes that DGAF will continue to not give a fuck, no matter what. Oh and the day we arrived, AZ passed 25000 dead and counting…….

And nationally, we’re still having a 9/11 every few days. I will never understand why so many DGAF.

[NakedShorts]

The "If everybody was just jabbed and boosted" is full on DUMB!

It is in other animals and they are not getting the jab. So just blame it on people who think different than you. Not to mention the jab does not prevent spread or getting it.

Not sure why we would be mandated to get something that works so poorly.

[riser4]

The "If everybody was just jabbed and boosted" is full on DUMB!

It is in other animals and they are not getting the jab. So just blame it on people who think different than you. Not to mention the jab does not prevent spread or getting it.

Not sure why we would be mandated to get something that works so poorly.

Buh bye.

[seano732]

The "If everybody was just jabbed and boosted" is full on DUMB!

It is in other animals and they are not getting the jab. So just blame it on people who think different than you. Not to mention the jab does not prevent spread or getting it.

Not sure why we would be mandated to get something that works so poorly.

Quoted for idiocy.