To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Mofro261]

Which is quicker and requires much less effort to change, your vaccination status or your co-morbidities?

Does a healthy, yet naive (unvaxxed, not previously infected) person have better chances at limiting infection than someone who is unhealthy (overweight, hypertension, type II diabetes) but with an immune system previously primed to respond upon another exposure?

Now write this on the chalk board 500 times:

"A high infectious dose will overcome my healthy immune system, I don't get to choose my exposure."
"A high infectious dose will overcome my healthy immune system, I don't get to choose my exposure."
"A high infectious dose will overcome my healthy immune system, I don't get to choose my exposure."


I'm all in for removing fat people from being a protected class btw, it's just that you can't healthy yourself out of a high exposure or an infection that initiates deep in the lower respiratory tract. Vaccinations aren't 100% effective in 100% of the people either, those are still magic bullets. Complete isolation is 100% effective at infection prevention, but not really practical for more than the 0.1% of the population.

#VDM #VIRAL DOSE MATTERS

[AK47bp]

Your logic is still flawed, and it's still a false dilemma. There aren't enough letters in the alphabet to list the probabilities and range of outcomes.

If you lived on the moon, your chance of catching covid is zero.

Whoa whoa whoa Ted.

Anyone in space has to launch from Texas or Florida right? There’d be covids all over that rocket.




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[skiJ]

[QUOTE=AK47bp;6399327]Whoa whoa whoa Ted.

Anyone in space has to launch from Texas or Florida right? There’d be covids all over that rocket.

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... I laughed -


skiJ

[Ted Striker]

He's actually not saying that...he's saying that being "healthy" (i.e., exercise frequently, not obese, eat healthily, etc.) is better than a morbidly obese person getting vaccinated, if it's a binary choice. He is wrong...being vaccinated and obese provides a better chance of combatting COVID-19 than not. Full stop. He is wrong.

You're restating my point. He created a binary (and/or a three way) to force a "logical" answer. The reality is that there are numerous scenarios wrt one's age and general health, genetic predispositions, strain, exposure, etc.

[Adolf Allerbush]

You're restating my point. He created a binary (and/or a three way) to force a "logical" answer. The reality is that there are numerous scenarios wrt one's age and general health, genetic predispositions, strain, exposure, etc.

Sorry, my bad, I misunderstood you. Of course, you are 100% correct.

[Ted Striker]

Whoa whoa whoa Ted.

Anyone in space has to launch from Texas or Florida right? There’d be covids all over that rocket.




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Ha! Yeah.

Now I'm guilty of the false dichotomy.

[SumJongGuy]

Which is quicker and requires much less effort to change, your vaccination status or your co-morbidities?

Does a healthy, yet naive (unvaxxed, not previously infected) person have better chances at limiting infection than someone who is unhealthy (overweight, hypertension, type II diabetes) but with an immune system previously primed to respond upon another exposure?

Now write this on the chalk board 500 times:

"A high infectious dose will overcome my healthy immune system, I don't get to choose my exposure."
"A high infectious dose will overcome my healthy immune system, I don't get to choose my exposure."
"A high infectious dose will overcome my healthy immune system, I don't get to choose my exposure."


I'm all in for removing fat people from being a protected class btw, it's just that you can't healthy yourself out of a high exposure or an infection that initiates deep in the lower respiratory tract.

Much better when everyone just smoked to avoid getting fat. Everyone quits smoking and obesity goes off the charts.. definite correlation.

But wait, what about just smoking weed? It's not nearly as bad for you as even drinking, much less tobacco. Humm, anybody been looking in to this??

Multiple clinical risks for cannabis users during the COVID-19 pandemic

So it ain't just fat people who have to worry more or are clogging up ER beds more..

[old_newguy]

Which is quicker and requires much less effort to change, your vaccination status or your co-morbidities?

Does a healthy, yet naive (unvaxxed, not previously infected) person have better chances at limiting infection than someone who is unhealthy (overweight, hypertension, type II diabetes) but with an immune system previously primed to respond upon another exposure?

Now write this on the chalk board 500 times:

"A high infectious dose will overcome my healthy immune system, I don't get to choose my exposure."
"A high infectious dose will overcome my healthy immune system, I don't get to choose my exposure."
"A high infectious dose will overcome my healthy immune system, I don't get to choose my exposure."


I'm all in for removing fat people from being a protected class btw, it's just that you can't healthy yourself out of a high exposure or an infection that initiates deep in the lower respiratory tract. Vaccinations aren't 100% effective in 100% of the people either, those are still magic bullets. Complete isolation is 100% effective at infection prevention, but not really practical for more than the 0.1% of the population.

#VDM #VIRAL DOSE MATTERS

He has no idea how you would even get change on the scale required to impact the comorbidity numbers in a time frame that matters. No clue on the policy that would get us there. Seemingly oblivious to the myriad of public health initiatives and money over, oh, I don’t know, at least 20 years, to impact the obesity and diabetes problem.

I’m fact, he has spent a significant amount of time arguing against a universal public health system that would help head off these comorbidities.

Also seemingly clueless that not everyone gets to choose to get healthy. Many people didn’t choose to get cancer or a genetic disease or they are just old and by the nature of aging have comorbidities.

[skiJ]

You're restating my point. He created a binary (and/or a three way) to force a "logical" answer. The reality is that there are numerous scenarios wrt one's age and general health, genetic predispositions, strain, exposure, etc.

Sorry, my bad, I misunderstood you. Of course, you are 100% correct.

... pretty-sure the important point is still,

the best and most important thing to do to prevent covid is


be vaccinated ! !!


respectfully. skiJ

[Percy Rideout]

Much better when everyone just smoked to avoid getting fat. Everyone quits smoking and obesity goes off the charts.. definite correlation.

But wait, what about just smoking weed? It's not nearly as bad for you as even drinking, much less tobacco. Humm, anybody been looking in to this??

Multiple clinical risks for cannabis users during the COVID-19 pandemic

So it ain't just fat people who have to worry more or are clogging up ER beds more..

re: people quitting smoking and getting fat. Two words: Corn Syrup.

[paulster2626]

I have not answered that list. And apologies for missing it. Tough to keep up when you check once in a while and we're 19 pages deeper into the game of an entire cadre of shit talkers dog-piling you over something they completely missed the point on.

To respond directly, the answer is "YES" to all of those things. But also, yes, I've questioned each one of those things before coming to my conclusions. Forgive me, but that's easy to do when you see the nations leaders making the rules not following their own guidance on things to which I've pointed out the hypocrisy time and time again, which people have taken as me currently being somehow anti-vax, anti-mask, anti-anything. If only all the resident assholes here saw how I actually live my life in practice as opposed to our politicians (cough cough French Laundry cough cough Obama bday party cough cough). I know I've talked a lot of trash over the last year, but in reality in my own personal life I've done all the "right" things. We're still allowed to question things, though. Unlike a bunch of the clowns here who like to wear masks in their car by themselves on a lonely stretch of highway, I don't simply go "Derp. Whadeva you say boss" when the idiots in charge say we gotta wear a mask outside by ourselves. But people here take that as I'm "anti-mask" somehow. No. Just like to exercise some common sense in daily living is all. Which, yes, includes living healthier, which I've made a conscientious effort to improve on substantially over the last 18 months. No government campaign required to get me to do so. Haha.

Just look outside your borders. Many countries have put forth science-based, non-political measures and advice to their citizens. Just take the politics out of it and realize that the obvious answers here are the right ones.

Start here: https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...-measures.html

You haven't come across some mystery facts that nobody seems to understand, all everyone needs to really do right now is get vaccinated and wear a mask indoors with strangers. It's so simple, yet for some reason people have made this so complicated. As far as I can tell nobody here has ever said anything different.

And governments in North America have been practically begging people to get healthier and less fat for decades, one of the reasons being to reduce the risk of diseases both known and unknown, so I'm not sure why you think they DGAF about that.

[funkendrenchman]

You haven't come across some mystery facts that nobody seems to understand, all everyone needs to really do right now is get vaccinated and wear a mask indoors with strangers. It's so simple, yet for some reason people have made this so complicated.

QFT!

[Ted Striker]

Anyone in space has to launch from Texas or Florida right? There’d be covids all over that rocket.

Covid done bit my sister Nell.
Her face and arms began to swell.
I can't pay no doctor bill.
Ten years from now I'll be payin' still.
While Whitey put covid on the moon.



Apologies to GSH, rip.

[yeahman]

Idaho crushing it

BOISE, Idaho (AP) — Amid the Idaho coronavirus surge that prompted officials to authorize hospitals to ration health care, Army soldiers sent to one hospital have traded their fatigues for personal protective equipment to help treat a flood of infected patients.

The conference center at Kootenai Health hospital in the city Coeur d’Alene has been converted into a field hospital of sorts — with some of its classrooms filled with hospital beds where patients receive oxygen or get monoclonal antibody treatment, hospital officials said.

At the nearby main hospital building in the city of about 50,000, some emergency room patients receive care in a converted lobby and others get it in hallways. Urgent surgeries have been put on hold and some patients in critical condition are facing long waits for intensive care beds.

The overwhelmed hospital is at the epicenter of a coronavirus crisis for the northern part of the state — and where state officials this week authorized “crisis standards of care” status.

That allowed Kootenai Health, where an entire floor has been turned into a makeshift COVID-19 unit, and other hospitals in the region to ration health care during the surge.

Public health officials are warning the health care rationing could soon spread statewide, forcing already traumatized doctors and nurses to make gut-wrenching decisions about who will get life-saving care.

Newly confirmed coronavirus infection cases in Idaho are surging and the state is now averaging more than 950 new cases every day, according Johns Hopkins University — an increase of more than 41% over the past two weeks.

Idaho is also last among U.S. states with only about 45% of residents having received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine, according to the Centers for Disease Control. Just under 40% of residents are fully vaccinated, making Idaho 48th the nation compared to other states and Washington, D.C.

“For the rest of the state, we remain dangerously close to crisis standards of care,” Idaho Department of Health and Welfare Director Dave Jeppesen warned Tuesday, when there were just nine available intensive care unit beds in the entire state.

The crush of patients has forced Kootenai Health into “doing things that were not normal — way outside of normal — at times,” said hospital chief of staff Dr. Robert Scoggins.

“Almost every day at this point we are having cardiac arrest from patients when their oxygen levels dip too low and we can’t supply them with enough oxygen,” he said.

While many of northern Idaho's smaller, rural hospitals have not been forced to ration health care, they frequently have no place to send their critically ill patients who would normally be transferred to Kootenai Health.

Hospitals in neighboring Washington state would normally help with the overflow, but they are also full of patients, Jeppesen said.

Peter Mundt, the spokesman for Gritman Medical Center in the Idaho city of Moscow said the institution is struggling to find hospital destinations to transfer patients with serious heart problems and other conditions unrelated to COVID-19.

“Our ability to accommodate non-COVID patients are very strained at this point,” Mundt said. “Even though we’re all different hospitals, we normally work together as collaborative colleagues and peers. We need it to work as a giant system and that system is just under severe strain right now.”

In the city of Lewiston, St. Joseph Regional Medical Center is also operating “at the very edge of our capacity,” spokeswoman Sam Skinner said.

“Our current situation is worse than it’s ever been,” Skinner said. “As we continue to see the COVID-19 surge in our community, the impact on one hospital can quickly have this rippling effect. Our low community vaccination rates are putting an incredible burden on our community.”

The Idaho Department of Health and Welfare moved northern and north-central Idaho into the crisis designation Monday evening, giving hospitals a legal and ethical template to use while rationing care.

The designation will remain in effect until there are enough resources — including staffing, hospital beds and equipment or a drop in the number of patients — to provide normal levels of treatment to all patients.

Under the guidelines, patients are given priority scores based on a number of factors that impact their likelihood of surviving a health crisis.

Those deemed in most in need of care and most likely to benefit from it are put on priority lists for scarce resources like ICU beds.

Others in dire need but with lower chances of surviving will be given “comfort care” to help keep them pain-free whether they succumb to their illnesses or recover.

Other patients with serious but not life-threatening medical problems will face delays in receiving care until resources are available.

Jeppesen stressed Tuesday that vaccines are the best way to reduce the demand on hospitals. Data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that full vaccination with any of the currently available coronavirus vaccines dramatically reduces the risk of requiring hospitalization for a coronavirus infection.

State health officials have also asked people should not go to emergency rooms for asymptomatic coronavirus tests or other matters that can be handled in doctor's offices, but said no one should hold off emergency room visits for potentially serious conditions. They warned people people to be prepared to wait for care.

Idaho’s hospitals have struggled to fill empty nursing, housekeeping and other health care positions, in part because some staffers have left because they are burned out by the strain of the pandemic and because others have been quarantined because they were exposed to COVID-19.

Late last month, Little called in 220 medical workers available through federal programs and mobilized 150 Idaho National Guard soldiers to help hospitals cope with the surge.

[twat]

I here / read there is a big group of females around 30years who a vaxxsceptical because of there wish to get pregnant. It is understanable im my opinion. Hard to convince them as they are late .... boilogical clock.... etc.

[AK47bp]

I here / read there is a big group of females around 30years who a vaxxsceptical because of there wish to get pregnant. It is understanable im my opinion. Hard to convince them as they are late .... boilogical clock.... etc.

Maybe they’re ugly


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[twat]

Would u fuck
girl A: fat and waxxed
or girl B: pretty not waxxed

Or girl C: healthy ugly waxxed

[LongShortLong]

( see LSL's post : given current practices, the day will come when everyone will have covid (coronavirus, the virus; not necessarily clinical disease

To clarify, if the vaccination rate stays low, then almost all of us will get exposed eventually. To refresh, the herd immunity threshold says that if each infected person infects R others on average, then the pandemic will grow until (1 - 1/R) fraction of the population has immunity. Past that threshold the number of infections begins to fall, trailing off toward zero. Some part of the non-immune population may never be infected. Estimates for delta put the immunity threshold in the low to mid-eighties. Some experts say it may be as low as 70% or close to 90%.

If instead, we get vaccination high enough, especially well above the "herd immunity" threshold, then Covid will fade away like our other vaccinated diseases. E.g. dozens of diseases still circulate on Earth, but very few of us will ever be exposed because vaccination drove the case counts extremely low in the US. Natural infections and defenses like masks also count toward immunity. Like the other diseases, few of us would be exposed to Covid.

The trick at the moment is nobody knows for sure what the herd immunity threshold is. And it's entirely possible that vaccination and natural immunity are not protective enough to reach that threshold or don't last long enough to stay above it. I'm hoping some country or community demonstrates success, as that will show a winning strategy the rest can follow. I'm pretty sure a few countries have crossed the threshold, if it weren't for delta. US should have been close too.

So most of us may still be able to avoid a Covid infection, but "may" is the strongest word I offer.

[AK47bp]

Would u fuck
girl A: fat and waxxed
or girl B: pretty not waxxed

Or girl C: healthy ugly waxxed

Easy. A,B, & C




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[The AD]

I here / read there is a big group of females around 30years who a vaxxsceptical because of there wish to get pregnant. It is understanable im my opinion. Hard to convince them as they are late .... boilogical clock.... etc.

What the hell does the vaccination have to do with their desire to get pregnant?

[The SnowShow]

Was supposed to get some windows replaced tomorrow and got a text from the guy saying he has COVID for the second time (and he’s not vaccinated). Nice job buddy.

[mcski]

There is a whole new line of hesitancy from women based on stories about the vax supposedly affecting menstrual cycles. My anti vax friend was running out of reasons and just latched into that this week even though she’s nearly 60

[puma]

I have not answered that list. And apologies for missing it. Tough to keep up when you check once in a while and we're 19 pages deeper into the game of an entire cadre of shit talkers dog-piling you over something they completely missed the point on.

To respond directly, the answer is "YES" to all of those things. But also, yes, I've questioned each one of those things before coming to my conclusions. Forgive me, but that's easy to do when you see the nations leaders making the rules not following their own guidance on things to which I've pointed out the hypocrisy time and time again, which people have taken as me currently being somehow anti-vax, anti-mask, anti-anything. If only all the resident assholes here saw how I actually live my life in practice as opposed to our politicians (cough cough French Laundry cough cough Obama bday party cough cough). I know I've talked a lot of trash over the last year, but in reality in my own personal life I've done all the "right" things. We're still allowed to question things, though. Unlike a bunch of the clowns here who like to wear masks in their car by themselves on a lonely stretch of highway, I don't simply go "Derp. Whadeva you say boss" when the idiots in charge say we gotta wear a mask outside by ourselves. But people here take that as I'm "anti-mask" somehow. No. Just like to exercise some common sense in daily living is all. Which, yes, includes living healthier, which I've made a conscientious effort to improve on substantially over the last 18 months. No government campaign required to get me to do so. Haha.

No apologies are needed for me. This thread moves quickly. Glad to hear you are a yes to all. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but here I am with a family member not aligned on these points...I refuse to argue with him in public facebook posts, and I guess I really just hope he\his offspring are not negatively impacted due to their refusal to subscribe to the above Yes's...

Personally, I've not really questioned any of these with the exception of wanting to believe Covid was not as big of a deal prior to locking down when it had not hit our shores. It became clear I was wrong on that quickly though. I don't look to leadership to help me understand any of these questions. They all seem like common sense to me.

I have not picked up on this thread there are those who subscribe to the need for wearing masks in their car by themselves on a lonely highway. Perhaps you do have that recon, perhaps you've been attacked many times on this thread and are lashing out, or perhaps I'm wrong and many feel that way, but making a comment like that is not helpful in my opinion.

With regard to idiots in charge saying we need to wear masks outside, perhaps it's revisionist history, but I do not recall that being a thing. I can appreciate it would unfortunately be a difficult job to try to steer this country in the right direction from a public health perspective. Personally, I never wore masks outside when walking the neighborhoods or not near others. The only time I recall masks being required outside is when you are in a real crowded area. We can debate if liftlines qualify...but it does not seem to be worth the effort, and it's not a real big deal to comply.

Anyway, health to you and your family.

[rideit]

The source of this story is suspect, but I have been kind of banking on this theory for a while now.

https://nypost.com/2021/09/08/having...uman-immunity/

[SumJongGuy]

re: people quitting smoking and getting fat. Two words: Corn Syrup.

Still gonna be skinny if you drink lots of pop all day and smoke a pack..

As for COVID. I'm gonna guess that it takes hold more easily in more efficient and powerful lungs same as oxygen does. What happens after that is another matter though..