To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

**ron johnson** · 08-14-2021, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by neufox47

You also claimed the previously infected had 99% immunity and still haven’t backed that one up.

Remember these?
https://medicine.missouri.edu/news/s...severe-illness
https://ehrn.org/articles/covid-19-t...e-reinfections

And we can add this one thanks to MV: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...051v1.full.pdf

**ron johnson** · 08-14-2021, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

There it is.

Sources have been quoted that refute that claim.

The flu is at best 'as deadly' for kids, but decidedly not 'more deadly' for kids. And that's with old data and doesn't include the new delta data.

I do not care if I change your mind, but I do care about the constant disinformation. Especially when it comes to threats to kids.

Now leave.

I am making the case to ban you.

#1. I responded by providing data from the CDC that supports my claim (and includes Delta data).

#2. It wasn't an ongoing challenge. So even if you were right in this instance it wouldn't qualify.

**splat** · 08-14-2021, 10:18 PM

Schroedinger's Douchebag.

Nice to see you've turned the corner on the nice, factual approach, Buster.

**Buster Highmen** · 08-14-2021, 10:27 PM

"During the 2018–2019 season, 136 deaths in children with laboratory–confirmed influenza virus infection were reported in the United States. However, influenza-associated pediatric deaths are likely under-reported as not all children whose death was related to an influenza virus infection may have been tested for influenza. By combining data on hospitalization rates, influenza testing practices, and the frequency of death in and out of the hospital from death certificates, we estimate that there were approximately 480 deaths associated with influenza in children during 2018–2019."
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

423 COVID deaths in kids over the past 18+ months
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisiona...-Yea/nr4s-juj3

That not a valid argument. There were only 136 lab confirmed flu deaths but 423 lab confirmed covid deaths.

So once again, you're twisting the reported data to fit your narrative.

The claim that the flu is more deadly for kids than covid is invalid.

Now, on the banning argument, if you had contributed anything in terms of stoke, pictures, trip reports, music, art, cars, upstate, fishing, anything at all, maybe there's be reason to let you stay.
But you don't. You just contribute bullshit sophistry and inaccurate representation of important health issues, drawing politics into it at every option.

Go away.

**Buster Highmen** · 08-14-2021, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by splat

Schroedinger's Douchebag.

Nice to see you've turned the corner on the nice, factual approach, Buster.

The factual approach is merely augmented. Now, please ban this asshole. Trivializing kids deaths from covid, let alone the long term effects.

In all my years here, I have never once requested anyone be banned.

You've helped edit out some shit as have others and have put some folks on timeout.

But this is a first for me. Ban this jerk.

**TBS** · 08-14-2021, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

A curdled, fermented , corrosive, perniciously anemic, corrupt, disingenuous, disreputable, syphilitic colostomy bag of disinformation and malign intent who can't read a graph .
IMHO.

I would like to digress a moment to note that, IMO “syphilitic colostomy bag of disinformation and malign intent” represents a major advance in the art of pejoratives.

Bravo!

Carry on

**bennymac** · 08-14-2021, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by jono

The password is yes.

He’s already in poliass under an alias

**neufox47** · 08-14-2021, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by ron johnson

Remember these?
https://medicine.missouri.edu/news/s...severe-illness
https://ehrn.org/articles/covid-19-t...e-reinfections

And we can add this one thanks to MV: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...051v1.full.pdf

Which of those do you think demonstrates 99% immunity? Why don’t you start by defining 99% immunity.

**MultiVerse** · 08-14-2021, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by ron johnson

I said "nope" to your claims about base rate fallacy because neither the article or the table had anything to do with base rate fallacy.

And yet given the fact you posted a chart which contradicted your table in support of your table clearly showed your arguments, regardless of whether you understood why at the time, were incorporating the base rate fallacy. You were wrong then and you are wrong now.

Originally Posted by neufox47

Which of those do you think demonstrates 99% immunity? Why don’t you start by defining 99% immunity.

Yeah his error is obvious. Explaining why will inevitably be time consuming and pointless.

**dan_pdx** · 08-14-2021, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by TBS

I would like to digress a moment to note that, IMO “syphilitic colostomy bag of disinformation and malign intent” represents a major advance in the art of pejoratives.

Bravo!

Carry on

I had the same thought - if there were a Pulitzer for invective, Buster's a shoe-in. The argument for banning RJ is pretty compelling too.

**::: :::** · 08-14-2021, 10:59 PM

RJ adds nothing to this forum
Please ban his ass — if this were a bar, he’d have been tossed long ago
Let us move on without his noise
I’d flag all his posts but i have him on ignore
Just a bunch of wasted space with unfortunate quotes & ripostes in between

**splat** · 08-14-2021, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

The factual approach is merely augmented. Now, please ban this asshole. Trivializing kids deaths from covid, let alone the long term effects.

In all my years here, I have never once requested anyone be banned.

You've helped edit out some shit as have others and have put some folks on timeout.

But this is a first for me. Ban this jerk.

I'll take it to the board of directors. That's a joke but I'm serious. I will.

**bobz** · 08-14-2021, 11:39 PM

Credit where credit is due, there's some sick amusement in seeing a guy who insists, non-ironically, on all kinds of bullshit mythology, and then to watch various people, some rather witty, play shoot-fish-in-barrel with him. But the joke is getting really old. I don't know, Ron, maybe try out some new material, perhaps hold court on Jewish Space Lasers in the Wildfire topic or something?

**powdrhound** · 08-15-2021, 12:04 AM

If you all stopped engaging with him, and quoting him, he would go away by ignore.

Please stop.

**subtle plague** · 08-15-2021, 12:50 AM

#cockapoolife

**summit** · 08-15-2021, 12:56 AM

Here is my solution to the vaccine hesitancy issue:
1. Fedgov stops paying for COVID-19 hospital costs in unvaccinated.
2. Insurance companies can charge based on vaccine status.
3. Employers are protected from liability related to vaccine mandates including against state or local government restriction.

Everyone will be vaccinated by the end of the year.

Rj has been on ignore for hundreds of pages.

**mfcf13** · 08-15-2021, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

Here is my solution to the vaccine hesitancy issue:
1. Fedgov stops paying for COVID-19 hospital costs in unvaccinated.
2. Insurance companies can charge based on vaccine status.
3. Employers are protected from liability related to vaccine mandates including against state or local government restriction.

Everyone will be vaccinated by the end of the year.

Rj has been on ignore for hundreds of pages.

I've thought about this. The big problem for number 1 is what if an unvaccinated person shows up at the hospital with pneumonia but a negative covid test. Does the hospital treat them?

**bennymac** · 08-15-2021, 02:34 AM

South Carolina tea partier requests thoughts and prayers (and money of course) - his wife, who has Parkinson’s, got it as well.

Neither are vaccinated. Cause it’s just the flu and it only affects the old, the fat, those with medical conditions….send money now to help pay for these unavoidable costs.

**mfcf13** · 08-15-2021, 02:41 AM

This is what happens when you are fat, bald (and probably small-dicked) and named Pressley. Over-compensation on social media. Followed by the fall.

**jono** · 08-15-2021, 06:14 AM

It's not actually a problem. Unvaccinated and their insurance company will be on the hook whether they test positive or not in Summit's scenario. No need to ponder denial of care.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 08-15-2021, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Summer

Devil's advocate: this is an argument against having universal healthcare, of sorts. Can't ban unvaccinated dickheads from going to the hospital when there's no bill.

Ugh. I feel dirty just thinking that.

Hold on. Say we have universal healthcare/single payer, it’s the only way to receive treatment unless you opt out and then you pay cash. Terms of participation in the plan require certain vaccinations.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**tuco** · 08-15-2021, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Summer

Devil's advocate: this is an argument against having universal healthcare, of sorts. Can't ban unvaccinated dickheads from going to the hospital when there's no bill.

Ugh. I feel dirty just thinking that.

Not sure there is ANY good argument against it.
3rd party clogging up the system that's making it all WAAAAY the fuck too expensive.

**Conundrum** · 08-15-2021, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

Here is my solution to the vaccine hesitancy issue:
1. Fedgov stops paying for COVID-19 hospital costs in unvaccinated.
2. Insurance companies can charge based on vaccine status.
3. Employers are protected from liability related to vaccine mandates including against state or local government restriction.

Everyone will be vaccinated by the end of the year.

Rj has been on ignore for hundreds of pages.

Another idea. As soon as the FDA approval drops, tell everyone they have until the end of the year to get the shots. After that, production and shipments will be going to other countries and there won’t be any available in the US for the foreseeable future. And make that the truth. Fuck the mother fuckers.

**ron johnson** · 08-15-2021, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

That not a valid argument. There were only 136 lab confirmed flu deaths but 423 lab confirmed covid deaths.

So once again, you're twisting the reported data to fit your narrative.

The claim that the flu is more deadly for kids than covid is invalid.

Now, on the banning argument, if you had contributed anything in terms of stoke, pictures, trip reports, music, art, cars, upstate, fishing, anything at all, maybe there's be reason to let you stay.
But you don't. You just contribute bullshit sophistry and inaccurate representation of important health issues, drawing politics into it at every option.

Go away.

The testing practices for the flu and COVID are not the same. You aren't going to get an accurate number if you just count confirmed cases, which is why the CDC adjusts the number. Even if we only used confirmed cases flu deaths aren't far off COVID deaths because the COVID data is from a 3x longer time period.

Why would I want to post stoke considering how this community acts towards me?

**ron johnson** · 08-15-2021, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

The factual approach is merely augmented. Now, please ban this asshole. Trivializing kids deaths from covid, let alone the long term effects.

In all my years here, I have never once requested anyone be banned.

You've helped edit out some shit as have others and have put some folks on timeout.

But this is a first for me. Ban this jerk.

I'm not trivializing. I'm putting them in perspective.