To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Harry]

We all need to smoke some weed then post.

I thought we all did that already. At least I do, figured we were all on the same page...


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[LongShortLong]

I got into it with a conservative leaning friend whose belief is only around 5% of reported COVID deaths were directly caused by the virus. So instead of 650k, it’s 30k. So infuriating.

Some think it's all fake. Part of the globalist illuminati takeover. First "they" false flag you with the fake disease, then trick you into accepting the mind control shot. The model includes other shifting sands of nonsense along those lines. Of course, vaccine safety is all lies too, and most of the deaths and (non-existent) disease are caused by vaccinated people.

The key theme is someone bad is trying to control them. And must be stopped.

That said, the ones I know would likely grumble and get the shot if it was a requirement for travel. Earning the paycheck outweighs the conspiracy theories.

[riser4]

Quarantining people with active cases of a pandemic virus (TB) - I’m totally fine with. Quarantining people who are not sick, with no health problems and not allowing them into public spaces or participate in normal society is equivalent to stopping Jews from participating in society.

im sorry you can’t differentiate between the two… critical thinking doesn’t appear to be your sides strong suit..

Which paint chips tasted the best?

[bennymac]

mtskull33 - you still have yet to respond with how your self reflection is going after posting this gem:

“You are fucking retarded. You don’t get the shingles vaccine if you’ve had chickenpox before.”

You’re in here today taking shots at people's critical thinking skills. Time to weigh in on your own.

Or keep being a total fucking coward?

[::: :::]

We? Hmmm, You could also say native Hawaiians learned that government can't be trusted to do the right thing. Their experience seems to be much different from yours.

My comment was directed at the US overall & not at all towards the Hawaii comment
I have no horse in that race

[AEvospace]

Strictly quarantining the vulnerable or people with active cases of a pandemic virus - I’m totally fine with. Quarantining people who are not sick, with no health problems and not allowing them into public spaces or participate in normal society is not OK.

FIFY

Why do you gotta go all Marjory Taylor Green dude? You take it way, way too far.

I hear right wingers tell me all the time how "liberals only think with the emotional side of their brain".. or something along those lines. This whole thing has showed me that a lot of right wing people are making their decisions with this "imaginative/emotional" part of their brains.

[jono]

Dr. Joe Rogan here at 6:35 talking about how the average covid death had 4 comorbidities? Is this true, or am I misunderstanding what he is saying?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB6yucemJ-o

That guy is such a fucking moron. First he asks dumb questions over her every time she comes to a point and then he gets some assistant to break in with that thoroughly debunked bullshit and presents it to her without any chance to look into it as if they've "researched" this number in good faith.

No, those are not comorbidities. They are conditions listed on death certificates--all conditions, including those that were directly caused by COVID-19. Calling them comorbidities as if to imply that all but those with not other conditions listed were unhealthy is just a lie. No, technically not just a lie, a step beyond a damn lie, it's a statistic. (An irrelevant one painted to look meaningful.)

Look it up on the CDC website or better yet just look up the instructions for filling out a death certificate and how every condition is supposed to be listed. I can't believe this crap still circulates.

[AEvospace]

I hear you. I heard this and was thinking it cannot be right.

[summit]

Dr. Joe Rogan here at 6:35 talking about how the average covid death had 4 comorbidities? Is this true, or am I misunderstanding what he is saying?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB6yucemJ-o

That biochemist is an informed, but merely OK, speaker, which is probably why Rogan chose her. I listened to the whole clip. He knows how to dominate the discussion.

Rogan has had some real crackpots and attention whores on his show and he asks leading questions that just light up the emotions of vaccine hesitant types.

When he speaks, he hits on alarming verbal points, usually three at a time, more than can be responded to by his guest, leaving the previous BS points to stand unchallenged/uncontextualized. He cuts off his guests, and then he makes anecdotal appeals to emotion "I know two people" well Joe Rogan "knows" 100X+ as many people as the average person. Listening to him I now recognize the conversation styling his admirers adopt, such as asking a serious question and then only listening to part of an answer when cutting off the answer either out of an assumption that the questioner already knows what the responder is going to say, or just because they lost interest because the answer doesn't match the desired narrative.

You can hear it when he keeps peppering her with questions, interrupting, and she goes "I really feel like I haven't had a chance to answer your questions but let's answer this next one."

Remember almost 50% of Americans have one "comorbidity" or more accurately at least 1 risk factor for serious disease. A little over 4 in 5 deaths are in 50+ so there is one automatically. But almost 1 in 5 are not and there is a huge range of outcomes between 100% fine and dead that really really really matter.

But he is talking about contributing conditions on death certificates because he and his google expert assistant don't know shit about how this data is reported. If you die of COVID with Pneumonia, Sepsis, ARDS, Kidney Failure, Pulmonary Embolism, Stroke, Heart failure, and Cardiac Arrest, all caused by COVID, then you have "8 contributing conditions" but it was the COVID that caused them. If you have a death certificate that ONLY says COVID-19 and nothing else, then the person who wrote it is was just lazy.

Fuck Joe Rogan.

[::: :::]

Fuck Joe Rogan.

+1
Sort of a friendlier, funnier, more cool, weed-positive, pro-MMA, equally disingenuous Tucker “I’m-just-asking-[partisan/leading]-questions” Carlson

[AEvospace]

To give him any credit.. Joe actually quotes that same Doc a lot for other stuff. I think like nutrition and other bio stuff. She seems to be one of his favorites.

I listen to about 10% of his shit, I neither hate or love him. I mainly just listen to the shit that affects me or the polarizing newsworthy stuff with some popcorn

[KQ]

No, public health isn't your strong suit.

You ISOLATE the sick to ensure they do not transmit (you wait out the transmission period).

You QUARANTINE the healthy to ensure they do not become sick (you wait out the incubation period).

And so it has been since ships were QUARANTINED (quarantena) on arrival in port to make sure they didn't have the plague or whatevs.

Leper colonies

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Not that it excuses what we did, but Hawaii was always going to be owned or dominated by a major power. We just got there first. Russia and then Japan were lead competitors, now China would be as they are doing with many other "independent" Pacific islands previously dominated by Western powers. Geopolitics of the Eastern Pacific is vital to maritime nations like the US.

Thread drift. Hawaii could be held as a US protectorate.


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[subtle plague]

Motivated reasoning:

1) Lib Elite “experts” say X

2) i hate Libs

3) I want to believe -X

4) What explanation, no matter how outlandish, for -X can I come up with: Y

5) “Y proves -X”.

6) believe -X

7) I owned those Libs


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I think the variables are off. Or your reasoning. You need z.

[summit]

To give him any credit.. Joe actually quotes that same Doc a lot for other stuff. I think like nutrition and other bio stuff. She seems to be one of his favorites.

I listen to about 10% of his shit, I neither hate or love him. I mainly just listen to the shit that affects me or the polarizing newsworthy stuff with some popcorn

If Joe was informed and wanted to merely give voice to the concerns of the hesitant, he would conduct his interview entirely differently and allowed points to be addressed and not ambushed with BS stats. He instead conducted an interview from an agenda where he knew what he believed and wasn't interested in hearing thorough explanations or counters to his contrived and leading questions, just in a calm and friendly manner.

Yes he is a very skilled entertainer and interviewer, but he uses his powers to be a smiling ass to the detriment of his listeners.

So, fuck Joe Rogan.

[old_newguy]

That biochemist is an informed, but merely OK, speaker, which is probably why Rogan chose her. I listened to the whole clip. He knows how to dominate the discussion.

Rogan has had some real crackpots and attention whores on his show and he asks leading questions that just light up the emotions of vaccine hesitant types.

When he speaks, he hits on alarming verbal points, usually three at a time, more than can be responded to by his guest, leaving the previous BS points to stand unchallenged/uncontextualized. He cuts off his guests, and then he makes anecdotal appeals to emotion "I know two people" well Joe Rogan "knows" 100X+ as many people as the average person. Listening to him I now recognize the conversation styling his admirers adopt, such as asking a serious question and then only listening to part of an answer when cutting off the answer either out of an assumption that the questioner already knows what the responder is going to say, or just because they lost interest because the answer doesn't match.

You can hear it when he keeps peppering her with questions, interrupting, and she goes "I really feel like I haven't had a chance to answer your questions but let's answer this next one."

Remember almost 50% of Americans have one "comorbidity" or more accurately at least 1 risk factor for serious disease. A little over 4 in 5 deaths are in 50+ so there is one automatically. But almost 1 in 5 are not and there is a huge range of outcomes between 100% fine and dead that really really really matter.

But he is talking about contributing conditions on death certificates because he and his google expert assistant don't know shit about how this data is reported. If you die of COVID with Pneumonia, Sepsis, ARDS, Kidney Failure, Pulmonary Embolism, Stroke, Heart failure, and Cardiac Arrest, all caused by COVID, then you have "8 contributing conditions" but it was the COVID that caused them. If you have a death certificate that ONLY says COVID-19 and nothing else, then the person who wrote it is was just lazy.

Fuck Joe Rogan.

Check Joes body language, he isn’t open minded on this topic.

I believe the last expert in virology or epidemiology that Rogan had on was Osterholm last spring at the beginning on the pandemic.

Since then it has been a steady stream of people who don’t have anywhere near the credentials and are all doubters.

[summit]

Check Joes body language, he isn’t open minded on this topic.

I believe the last expert in virology or epidemiology that Rogan had on was Osterholm last spring at the beginning on the pandemic.

Since then it has been a steady stream of people who don’t have anywhere near the credentials and are all doubters.

Yea as I said she is informed and an OK speaker, but not an expert and not a great speaker. As in, even I could have handled myself better than her and spoken better to the evidence. (Maybe, I've been interviewed and even live on the news, but not something with the listenership of Rogan, and I don't know how Joe reacts to people not succumbing to the tactics he displayed with the biochemist). But the point is I'm not particularly special and I think I could have done better than the (mediocre for the topic) guest JR chose. I can think of a half dozen colleagues I work with on the daily who would have done better!

I'd love to see Joe face a highly informed but incredible speaker like Dr. Zubin Damania, or have him face a true expert like Dr. Paul Offit.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

We just admitted a 3 week old with Covid and being treated for pneumonia.


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[AEvospace]

Especially the past few months.. It does seem like JR has jumped off the fence he was sitting on. Whatever fence that was. I have watched a lot less of him lately as a matter of fact.

He seems to be pandering more to the UFC crowd and right wing crowd a bit more lately, although that's kind of always been his main audience.

[old_newguy]

Yea as I said she is informed and an OK speaker, but not an expert and not a great speaker. As in, even I could have handled myself better than her and spoken better to the evidence. (Maybe, I've been interviewed and even live on the news, but not something with the listenership of Rogan, and I don't know how Joe reacts to people not succumbing to the tactics he displayed with the biochemist)

I'd love to see Joe face a highly informed but incredible speaker like Dr. Zubin Damania, or have him face a true expert like Dr. Paul Offit.

Yeah, he isn’t going to do that.

He seems to be getting his ideas from Brett Weinstein and his brother Eric.

[::: :::]

Especially the past few months.. It does seem like JR has jumped off the fence he was sitting on. Whatever fence that was. I have watched a lot less of him lately as a matter of fact.

He seems to be pandering more to the UFC crowd and right wing crowd a bit more lately, although that's kind of always been his main audience.

I think you are just starting to notice
His MO has been easy to see since he started

[XXX-er]

I think they are just playing to the crayon eaters on the right cuz it pays

[summit]

I think you are just starting to notice
His MO has been easy to see since he started

I mean it is simple ambush interviewing that has been around for half a century. Your local TV investigative reporter has this skillset. JR just does it calmly with a smile on a streaming platform for a particular audience and narrative.

[old_newguy]

I’d consider it too if I got paid $100 million.

[AEvospace]

It used to have a more stoner vibe though, and he used to question more of the right wing bullshit. idk, maybe I'm too stoned too often to even tell.

I guess I've actually been watching a lot less since he moved to Texas