To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[subtle plague]

Inflatable tits. Be an after work she male!

[Core Shot]

Prehensile detachable penis

[Tri-Ungulate]

Hopefully its not balls on chin as that is already a thing.

[DougW]

Here's a hypothetical question. As variants arise and continue to as the 3rd world will not be vaccinated for quite a while, will there not be a push in western countries to produce boosters to cover the new variants( delta through mu) esp if even the best vaccines show decreasing % against them. Does that not pose a ethical problem to either vaccine the total world pop as fast as possible with vaccines of decreasing potency or divert some resources to producing boosters to further protect ( raise %) people in west? Thus slowing the world wide vac effort. There are already bottlenecks in the vac supply chain so there will always be a vac supply chain limit so everything has a cost in terms of production.

Second question can a booster be designed to cover many variants? delta, theta, mu etc. Of course more effective on some than others .

[KQ]

*PBS viewership is hardly the "general public". And I do get the impression that the News Hour is kinda hoping the pandemic will never end. They certainly emphasize the bad news over the good--but that's the news biz I guess. It's entirely possible that I will have to eat these words, or rather, just delete the post.

I don't know about that. Last night they said they will no longer be doing their Friday night tribute to those who have died of Covid.

[bodywhomper]

Here's a hypothetical question. As variants arise and continue to as the 3rd world will not be vaccinated for quite a while, will there not be a push in western countries to produce boosters to cover the new variants( delta through mu) esp if even the best vaccines show decreasing % against them. Does that not pose a ethical problem to either vaccine the total world pop as fast as possible with vaccines of decreasing potency or divert some resources to producing boosters to further protect ( raise %) people in west? Thus slowing the world wide vac effort. There are already bottlenecks in the vac supply chain so there will always be a vac supply chain limit so everything has a cost in terms of production.

Second question can a booster be designed to cover many variants? delta, theta, mu etc. Of course more effective on some than others .

Your first question was brought up in yesterday’s (Friday), wait for it, pbs newshour. Interviewing a well known and famous (?) ER doctor in NYC, he was pretty clear about the need to focus on vaxing the global population, especially all HCW. The focus of the conversation was about the effects to HCWs, but he drove the point home pretty hard.

[DougW]

Your first question was brought up in yesterday’s (Friday), wait for it, pbs newshour. Interviewing a well known and famous (?) ER doctor in NYC, he was pretty clear about the need to focus on vaxing the global population, especially all HCW. The focus of the conversation was about the effects to HCWs, but he drove the point home pretty hard.

Yes but countries are selfish, look at the US , it didn't allow any export until the US was swimming in vaccine. Would the US gov't stop Pfizer from shifting some vac production away the basis vac to a booster to better protect US people? Esp with the US opening up with for a western country a relatively low rate of vaccination. I'm sure there are enough members of the unvac herd for there to be outbreaks.

[jono]

Yes but countries are selfish, look at the US , it didn't allow any export until the US was swimming in vaccine. Would the US gov't stop Pfizer from shifting some vac production away the basis vac to a booster to better protect US people? Esp with the US opening up with for a western country a relatively low rate of vaccination. I'm sure there are enough members of the unvac herd for there to be outbreaks.

The US was the greatest threat to the world for generating new variants and spreading them. That doesn't mean most US policy isn't selfish, but it does mean there was no need to be tortured about it. Going forward that's probably pretty different.

[Mofro261]

Yes but countries are selfish, look at the US , it didn't allow any export until the US was swimming in vaccine. Would the US gov't stop Pfizer from shifting some vac production away the basis vac to a booster to better protect US people? Esp with the US opening up with for a western country a relatively low rate of vaccination. I'm sure there are enough members of the unvac herd for there to be outbreaks.

Hey Doug, if they shift to the booster for better covering Alpha/gamma/delta variants, then anyone needing a vax will be getting better protection than the version 1.

Ie the booster for someone already receiving a vax can still be a first shot for someone else.

Less potent vaccines are seeing higher % of reinfection with the new strains, and less likely to be effective at limiting transmission.

[DougW]

yes a new vac will stop a greater % of transmission and yes the new vac will displace old original vac. But if production is diverted from the 3rd world , a %, to put a 3rd dose into people in the 1st world then that means less people in the 3rd world are going to get vaccinated.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

yes a new vac will stop a greater % of transmission and yes the new vac will displace old original vac. But if production is diverted from the 3rd world , a %, to put a 3rd dose into people in the 1st world then that means less people in the 3rd world are going to get vaccinated.

People in the 3rd world get less of everything. I know it’s not fair


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[Mofro261]

yes a new vac will stop a greater % of transmission and yes the new vac will displace old original vac. But if production is diverted from the 3rd world , a %, to put a 3rd dose into people in the 1st world then that means less people in the 3rd world are going to get vaccinated.

Production isnt diverted from the 3rd world, it's diverted to the 3rd world, mostly from vaccine makers in India, Brazil, and China.

Switching out the original Wuhan strain for gamma or delta makes sense as the production process will be largely the same, like changing a flu strain in the annual mix.

Yes, like the flu vax which contains 3 or 4 strains, vaccines with blends of variants could be assembled to enhance coverage.

[old goat]

I don't know about that. Last night they said they will no longer be doing their Friday night tribute to those who have died of Covid.

Thanks for updating me on that. They did that sooner than I expected. I have stopped watching every night since you-know-who moved to Florida.

People in the 3rd world get less of everything. I know it’s not fair


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The entire history of the human race is people advancing the interests of themselves, their family, their tribe, their nation--to the detriment of others. I don't think it's going to change now. One could rationalize that the US and the West can't help the world if they are suffocating in cases themselves. One could rationalize that a life saved in the US is worth as much as a life saved in Africa. Or we can be honest with ourselves and admit that we are selfish--because we are born to be.

OTOH the fastest way to get the unvaxed to want a shot would be to send a bunch of doses to Cuba and Iran.

[DougW]

People in the 3rd world get less of everything. I know it’s not fair


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I guess the push back or criticism will depend on what that the death rate change results in. For example taking 50mil doses to vac very old Americans ( 3rd dose booster) so that rate goes from 60 to 75% and the outbreak is do to America's low vac rate might be a bad PR move.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I guess the push back or criticism will depend on what that the death rate change results in. For example taking 50mil doses to vac very old Americans ( 3rd dose booster) so that rate goes from 60 to 75% and the outbreak is do to America's low vac rate might be a bad PR move.

It’s going to be a lot more expensive if we don’t vaccinate boomers. Weeks of hospitalization are incredibly expensive and they want the very best care, no comfort measures for the boomers.


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[KQ]

(CNN)Buffalo Bills wide receiver Cole Beasley, in a challenge to the National Football League's new Covid-19 training camp and preseason protocols, tweeted that he'd rather retire than get a vaccine.

"Everyone — Hi, I'm Cole Beasley and I'm not vaccinated!," he wrote in a post Friday that he called a "Public Service Announcement."

"I will be outside doing what I do," Beasley added. "I'll be out in the public. If your scared of me then steer clear, or get vaccinated. Point. Blank. Period. I may die of covid, but I'd rather die actually living."

[bodywhomper]

^^TBI?

[old goat]

https://bellyupsports.com/2021/06/co...its-1721-again
(PS, it's satire, so no need to leave church to get batteries for the meter because I know you're reading TGR on your phone during the sermon)

[bodywhomper]

Regarding distribution of vaccine to the developing world, here’s the salient point made by Dr. Craig Spencer, the director of global health in emergency medicine at Columbia University, in his Friday interview: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/de...h-care-workers

But the reality is, more people have already died of COVID-19 in 2021 than died in 2020. There will be friends, like my friends in East Africa or in West Africa and other places around the world, that might not see a vaccine until 2022 or maybe even later, because of hoarding in wealthy countries.

The fact that we're buying up booster shots to have available in the fall and the winter in this year in case we need them, as friends of mine, health care workers around the world are still getting infected and still dying every single day because they don't have access to a vaccine.

Now, I'm very excited that we're getting back to normal. I'm very glad to have my old job back. But I think we need to be thoughtful about the impact that this has had on health care workers and other front-line workers all over the world.

When I was in West Africa treating Ebola, there were more health care workers, more doctors in the one hospital I was treated for Ebola in New York City than there were in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone, the three countries hit hardest by Ebola in 2014, combined.

And so losing a health care worker is always horrible, but in places where they're already in short supply, it's absolutely catastrophic for those communities. And we need to do everything we can to help protect them.

[LongShortLong]

Regarding distribution of vaccine to the developing world, here’s the salient point made by Dr. Craig Spencer, the director of global health in emergency medicine at Columbia University, in his Friday interview: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/de...h-care-workers

"because of hoarding in wealthy countries."

Odd perspective. Imagine a world without the wealthy countries. In that world, would there be any vaccine?

Last I heard, the western wealthy countries promised 1 billion doses for free, of vaccines that only exist because of those same countries' efforts. How is that hoarding? Those same wealthy countries and others are paying for and doing the research on every possible treatment. Treatment protocols have been researched, defined, and shared. We have about 10 effective vaccines so far, and working overtime to produce all we can. It's a stretch to call this hoarding

[DougW]

To add the Cuban vac just finished testing and is in the 60% range after two doses so about as good as Sino vac so the socalist model isn't actually knocking it out of park right now.

[old goat]

To add the Cuban vac just finished testing and is in the 60% range after two doses so about as good as Sino vac so the socalist model isn't actually knocking it out of park right now.

I don't know what help Cuba got but for a country like Cuba to come up with a vaccine at all is about as likely as you making one. And China's Socialist model is about as socialist as you.

[ex-powderbroker]

to add a bit of perspective, when this thing started, if we knew we’d have a vaccine as effective as the flu shot everyone would have signed up.

the mrna ones are far superior to what anyone could have imagined.

is it a triumph of capitalism? dumb luck? probably a bit of both. i’m lucky and grateful to be going in for a second jab of moderna this week though.

[PB]

^^^^^ THIS
Never in my wildest dreams did I expect to be fully vaccinated with some thing so effective 14 months after the initial outbreak. I was guessing maybe 3-5 years, and maybe 80% effective. But let's all focus only on the bad shit.

[DougW]

I don't know what help Cuba got but for a country like Cuba to come up with a vaccine at all is about as likely as you making one. And China's Socialist model is about as socialist as you.

I would never presume that I have the knowledge or background to make a vac or be involved in any way though I did work on a pharma job once. My point which I think you missed was that rich countries did in a timely fashion produce very effective vaccines. Cuba has been making vaccines for years though not on the cutting edge of tech. Yes China isn't socialist really any more but it is a one party state with pretty strong state control of industry, so in a way makes it socialist to a degree by the standard definition of socialism.