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  1. #10601
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    Jun 2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Where is this?

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk
    Washington, the state.

  2. #10602
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    Nov 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    Which paint chips tasted the best?
    Duh. The red ones.

    Duhhh…

  3. #10603
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    Quote Originally Posted by spanghew View Post
    Go ask Alice
    Excellent

    Quote Originally Posted by irul&ublo View Post
    That the risk of each can be substantially controlled by behavior modification
    Yeah, well I'll wear a mask and socially distance but I'm not giving up bacon.

  4. #10604
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    Dec 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deebased View Post
    Point of order sir.

    Heart Disease and Cancer continue to outpace C19. But all three have a common denominator. Let's see if you can find it.
    How does one prevent lung cancer causes by asbestos?
    Some sites say it outpaces smoking for lung cancer

  5. #10605
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    Quote Originally Posted by irul&ublo View Post
    That the risk of each can be substantially controlled by behavior modification
    Behavior Modification? For the general US public in a healthier direction?

    NO FUCKING WAY.

    They will just wait for statins and shit like that.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  6. #10606
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2skier112 View Post
    How does one prevent lung cancer causes by asbestos?
    Some sites say it outpaces smoking for lung cancer
    Nope, not even close. (In my career I've only removed 4 lung cancers caused by asbestos, and they were all in the same guy--bulldozer operator who used to demolish old houses. ) How do you prevent it--don't smoke (my guy was a smoker, smoking increases the risk and avoid exposure. While there is some risk to the general public the great majority of cases are in people exposed repeatedly on the job. If there is asbestos in your home it's usually best to leave it alone or carefully encapsulated (we have asbestos covered ducts which we've covered with plastic sheeting.) Removal should only be done by hazmat experts.

    There are a lot of lung cancers in non smokers--perhaps some are in people who were exposed to asbestos but never knew it. Radon. All the other shit we put in the air. Wildfire smoke. Avoiding asbestos is a lot easier than avoiding all the other shit.

  7. #10607
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    Whaddya wanna bet this dickhead is a Trumpie?


    https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/stat...779324928?s=20
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  8. #10608
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Whaddya wanna bet this dickhead is a Trumpie?


    https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/stat...779324928?s=20
    So is there followup on him getting arrested/charged?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  9. #10609
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    No Idea, stay tuned. Surely that violated multiple federal statutes at once.
    I bet his spirt animal is Ted Nugent.
    Or, of course, Joe Rogan.


    Edit: in the tweet

    “ I think the premise stated is true, but in this case police arrived in numbers shortly after and subdued the man who was then strapped to a gurney and taken to a VA mental health facility, according to Miami News 10. He was ID’d as a vet undergoing some mental health crisis.”

    Vibes to those vets who are suffering, but sorry, you shouldn’t get a pass for this even if true. He shouldn’t have been allowed to fly? This can’t be his only Roid Raging incident.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  10. #10610
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    Oct 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkd-rdr View Post
    Natural immunity varies widely, surely a respected immunologist such as yourself knows this. And certainly you know adding a vaccine can reduce risk.

    But what I really want is your evidence that natural immunity can keep up with mutations better.

    Please

    Aww so cute...but science


    I'll be the first to admit the number don't add up.. But I'll also be the first to question the guys making $$$ hand over fist.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...ection-parties

    And mofro.. I love your continuity but the math isn't any where close to difficult much less interesting......and the numbers based on peer reviewed studies don't add up

  11. #10611
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2skier112 View Post
    How does one prevent lung cancer causes by asbestos?
    Some sites say it outpaces smoking for lung cancer
    because lung cancer from asbestos ranks in the top ten...


    Fail straw man just like you fail in life.

    Fuck off jackass.

  12. #10612
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    Oct 2012
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    10,525
    Quote Originally Posted by irul&ublo View Post
    That the risk of each can be substantially controlled by behavior modification
    Sure can....But only portions of the behavior modification are being picked up by the media..... So weird!!

  13. #10613
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    Jun 2021
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    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Deebased View Post
    Aww so cute...but science


    I'll be the first to admit the number don't add up.. But I'll also be the first to question the guys making $$$ hand over fist.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...ection-parties

    And mofro.. I love your continuity but the math isn't any where close to difficult much less interesting......and the numbers based on peer reviewed studies don't add up
    Let's play who is more qualified to understand and interpret science shit...

    You or mofro...

    What is it that you do, again?

  14. #10614
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    May 2008
    Posts
    264
    Quote Originally Posted by DougW View Post
    I have been hearing that people being hospitalized are younger and sicker but hadn't seen anything to support this. Well now there is.
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...475-8/fulltext

    From summary it was reported that with delta 45% more likely to seek medical attention and 232% more likely to be hospitalized compared to alpha in the unvaxxed pop. So the % are likely to go up or maybe that is what the south is seeing now?

    Individual-level data on 43 338 COVID-19-positive patients (8682 with the delta variant, 34 656 with the alpha variant; median age 31 years [IQR 17–43]) were included in our analysis. 196 (2·3%) patients with the delta variant versus 764 (2·2%) patients with the alpha variant were admitted to hospital within 14 days after the specimen was taken (adjusted hazard ratio [HR] 2·26 [95% CI 1·32–3·89]). 498 (5·7%) patients with the delta variant versus 1448 (4·2%) patients with the alpha variant were admitted to hospital or attended emergency care within 14 days (adjusted HR 1·45 [1·08–1·95]). Most patients were unvaccinated (32 078 [74·0%] across both groups). The HRs for vaccinated patients with the delta variant versus the alpha variant (adjusted HR for hospital admission 1·94 [95% CI 0·47–8·05] and for hospital admission or emergency care attendance 1·58 [0·69–3·61]) were similar to the HRs for unvaccinated patients (2·32 [1·29–4·16] and 1·43 [1·04–1·97]; p=0·82 for both) but the precision for the vaccinated subgroup was low.
    I’ve heard this anecdotally as well.

    In addition, colleagues have been seeing myelopathy (spinal cord damage) from zinc toxicity. People are taking massive doses of zinc to prophylax against the rona, and the excess zinc apparently affects copper metabolism.

    Low copper can also cause a macrocytic anemia (this was in a recent NEMJ I flipped through). I’m sort of wondering now if all the crap the anti-vaxxers are taking, is actually worsening outcomes.

  15. #10615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deebased View Post
    Aww so cute...but science


    I'll be the first to admit the number don't add up.. But I'll also be the first to question the guys making $$$ hand over fist.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...ection-parties

    This article is the hill you're gonna die on?
    Did you even read it?

    Sounds like you're just clinging to something to be a contradictory bag of fucking dicks. I want the answer, not your shit narrative.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  16. #10616
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    Nov 2005
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    8,318
    Quote Originally Posted by Deebased View Post
    Aww so cute...but science


    I'll be the first to admit the number don't add up.. But I'll also be the first to question the guys making $$$ hand over fist.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...ection-parties

    And mofro.. I love your continuity but the math isn't any where close to difficult much less interesting......and the numbers based on peer reviewed studies don't add up
    Dr. Cockapoo loves him some retrospective studies, but that doesn't even attempt to address keeping up with mutations. And the simple math gets complicated--maybe confounded, even.

    From Science: "the numbers for infections and other events analyzed for the comparisons were “small.” For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the same analysis was based on just 238 infections in the vaccinated population, less than 1.5% of the more than 16,000 people, versus 19 reinfections among a similar number of people who once had SARS-CoV-2."

    What happens to simple math when most of the people with the weakest immune systems are removed from one arm and not the other? Say a bunch of them died between becoming eligible and the start of the study. Maybe from the disease that made them eligible, for instance. And then another chunk are removed because they can't actually be reinfected since they've never cleared the first infection? Or are they removed? Maybe you leave them in--after all, the best protection against re-infection is not testing again because of an existing infection, right? Is that how the simple math works? Maybe just give a quick lesson if you don't mind.

  17. #10617
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    Nov 2008
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    ^ The latest from data from Israel's Ministry of Health shows reinfections are ticking up among naturally infected recovered patients too. The reason has to do with demographics and location due in large part to the way Delta started among younger unvaccinated populations in more highly % vaccinated urban areas before spreading to older lower % vaccinated rural areas.

    Since the study period ended, the percentage of reinfected recovered patients has risen from 0.47% through 2020 to 0.71% for 2021, and now 1.8% verified since the beginning of August 2021.

    In other words, Deebased's talking point is already outdated but that won't stop him or anyone else so inclined from reposting the study millions of times on social media.



    The bottom line: Thanks to memory B & T cells immunity to COVID from vaccination or infection will be long-lived for most people. But research shows people who are vaccinated have more memory B-cells recognizing variants than people who recovered from mild COVD and were not vaccinated.

    So the idea natural immunity is better when its safety profile led to the death >600K+ Americans makes the talking point absurd. Then add to that the fact that we have peer-reviewed published data, including the study discussed above, showing the real benefit of vaccines in people with prior SARS2 infection.

  18. #10618
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    Dec 2007
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    base of the Bush
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    14,871
    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
    Ottime

  19. #10619
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    Oct 2007
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    12,609
    Why do horses get all the good drugs?

  20. #10620
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    Apr 2005
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    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzworthy View Post
    We all need to smoke some weed then post.
    as a stoner fishy ski bum

    i approve of this messages
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  21. #10621
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    There is a theoretical basis for natural infection producing stronger immunity--natural infection presumably produces immunity against multiple sites on the virus while the vaccine induces immunity only against the spike protein. OTOH, since natural infection has been shown to produce lower antibody titers, immunity would likely fade faster, which might explain what Multiverse posted. To be meaningful the study has to be carried out for much longer.

    At least hypothetically the mutations in the spike protein in the Delta variant would lead to spike protein based vaccines being less effective against Delta, but if the rest of the virus is unchanged natural immunity might still be as effective against Delta. Whether this is actually the case I don't know.

    Also, since natural infection is contracted through the nose, those people should have a more robust antibody response in the nose, so the vaccinated would be expected to have a higher incidence of asymptomatic and symptomatic nasal infections.

    The Israeli study is interesting but of no practical importance, since no one could possibly be stupid enough to try to get Covid instead of the vaccine to induce immunity, could they?

  22. #10622
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    Nov 2002
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    EWA
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    The Struggle to Vaccinate Springfield, Missouri


    Two nurses in Missouri said that some patients are suspicious of retractable needles, which make a clicking sound after the shot is administered. The patients asked whether that was the sound of a microchip being implanted in their arms.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  23. #10623
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    Nov 2008
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    Edge of the Great Basin
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    There is a theoretical basis for natural infection producing stronger immunity--natural infection presumably produces immunity against multiple sites on the virus while the vaccine induces immunity only against the spike protein. OTOH, since natural infection has been shown to produce lower antibody titers, immunity would likely fade faster, which might explain what Multiverse posted. To be meaningful the study has to be carried out for much longer.

    At least hypothetically the mutations in the spike protein in the Delta variant would lead to spike protein based vaccines being less effective against Delta, but if the rest of the virus is unchanged natural immunity might still be as effective against Delta. Whether this is actually the case I don't know.

    Also, since natural infection is contracted through the nose, those people should have a more robust antibody response in the nose, so the vaccinated would be expected to have a higher incidence of asymptomatic and symptomatic nasal infections.
    The study deebased likes to post also shows a single dose on top of a previous infection provides better protection. Because protection wanes for natural infection too—a single vaccine dose cuts the risk in half compared to those reinfected and unvaccinated.

    In the other study linked above, people who are vaccinated have more memory B-cells recognizing variants than people who recovered from mild COVD and were not vaccinated. So there's an important distinction between convalescent cases vs mild cases.


    One of the things lost in the discussion is it's natural for antibody levels to peak after vaccination or natural infection and then fall. It's normal. Blood would turn to sludge if antibodies after every infection or vaccination remained elevated over a lifetime.

    Since Covid isn't the flu, folks shouldn't automatically assume annual boosters will become a thing. While a booster shot will boost short term antibody levels, there may be an upper limit to how many long-term antigen-specific memory B-cells you can have. The good news is when memory B-cells are stimulated they produced antibodies as soon as 4 days later.
    Last edited by MultiVerse; 08-29-2021 at 04:07 PM.

  24. #10624
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    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    You also can’t get long COVID from the vaccine

  25. #10625
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    In a van... down by the river
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    no one could possibly be stupid enough to try to get Covid instead of the vaccine to induce immunity, could they?
    40% of the American voting population: "Hold my beer."

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