To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[MultiVerse]

I’m sorry, he was looking for “…Hillary Clinton kills people”

Hillary Woke Up This Mornin'...

[seano732]

What useful purpose does VAERs serve? There must be something smart people extract from it, but the only time I ever see it reference is by crayon eating morons misinterpreting a bunch of random data entry fails

This. Great question, and I’ve heard VAERS described as “ Wikipedia but with worse editing”….. We may in fact be doomed.

[seano732]

EXHIBIT A:
https://twitter.com/patriottakes/sta...142998029?s=21

[SumJongGuy]

EXHIBIT A:
https://twitter.com/patriottakes/sta...142998029?s=21

Let them eat cake!

[seano732]

Let them eat cake!

I am just stunned, STUNNED, that Ivermectin won the Nobel Peace Prize……I foolishly thought that was for people or some shit……..

[CarlMega]

I am just stunned, STUNNED, that Ivermectin won the Nobel Peace Prize……I foolishly thought that was for people or some shit……..

People are saying Ivermectin freed the slaves and brought peace to the middle east. No one knows, no one knows. But I said it. I said it first. Before anyone else. Now everyone is saying it. Its true! Trust me, buy my steaks.

[seano732]

People are saying Ivermectin freed the slaves and brought peace to the middle east. No one knows, no one knows. But I said it. I said it first. Before anyone else. Now everyone is saying it. Its true! Trust me, buy my steaks.

It is truly fucking frightening that that woman is a sitting member of Congress…..sorry for the PoliAss…..

[Lvovsky]

Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.

Mark Twain

[old goat]

What useful purpose does VAERs serve? There must be something smart people extract from it, but the only time I ever see it reference is by crayon eating morons misinterpreting a bunch of random data entry fails

From Wikipedia: "VAERS was established in 1990 and is managed jointly by the FDA and the CDC.[4] It is meant to act as a sort of "early warning system"—a way for physicians and researchers to identify possible unforeseen reactions or side effects of vaccination for further study." But you could have looed that up yourself..
The idea is that since multiple vaccines are given to virtually every child in America it makes sense to identify post-authorzation complications as quickly as possible. Another reason for it is to give the public some reassurance that vaccine safety is being monitored. Researchers, clinicians, manufacturers make good use of it. Plaintiffs' attorneys and the ant-vax crowd make not so good use of it. Probably would be a good idea to stop letting anyone post to it--medical providers only. But the ambulance chasers and antivaxers would find or manufacture plenty of other "evidence" to support their positions without it. The fact that it is misused doesn't justify taking it away from those who make legitimate use of it.

[old goat]

Pfizer asks for an EUA for kids. I'm surprised. I expected them to go through the whole full authorization process and not ask for the EUA. I haven't seen the figures for 5-12's--maybe there are more kids getting sick and dying than I realize. Given the number of unvaccinated adults it's hard to justify asking for an EUA on the basis of controlling the pandemic.

My policy of avoiding kids 5-12 as much as possible, pandemic or no pandemic, shots or no shots, remains in place.

[Sirshredalot]

Pfizer asks for an EUA for kids. I'm surprised. I expected them to go through the whole full authorization process and not ask for the EUA. I haven't seen the figures for 5-12's--maybe there are more kids getting sick and dying than I realize. Given the number of unvaccinated adults it's hard to justify asking for an EUA on the basis of controlling the pandemic.

My policy of avoiding kids 5-12 as much as possible, pandemic or no pandemic, shots or no shots, remains in place.

There are a lot of kids getting sick from delta. Not super high acuity or a super high death rate. But there's no reason to drag our feet on the matter.

I'm looking forward to getting my older kid her shots. Not too much longer for the 6m-5yo group, either, from what I understand.

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk

[mcski]

From Wikipedia: "VAERS was established in 1990 and is managed jointly by the FDA and the CDC.[4] It is meant to act as a sort of "early warning system"—a way for physicians and researchers to identify possible unforeseen reactions or side effects of vaccination for further study." But you could have looed that up yourself..
The idea is that since multiple vaccines are given to virtually every child in America it makes sense to identify post-authorzation complications as quickly as possible. Another reason for it is to give the public some reassurance that vaccine safety is being monitored. Researchers, clinicians, manufacturers make good use of it. Plaintiffs' attorneys and the ant-vax crowd make not so good use of it. Probably would be a good idea to stop letting anyone post to it--medical providers only. But the ambulance chasers and antivaxers would find or manufacture plenty of other "evidence" to support their positions without it. The fact that it is misused doesn't justify taking it away from those who make legitimate use of it.

Ya , I get the intended use but how is any of it useful and how when it is so full of garbage data. Has any useful research ever come out of it? I can’t fathom such a mess being useful

[jono]

Does seem like a tool that was designed in the days before Boatie McBoatface and troll farms.

[TNKen]

Has it been worse under the pandemic or just more of the same?

Worse. In her hospital, not counting the ICU's, the floors are divided into two sections each with about 40 beds. Two of those sections are now devoted solely to COVID patients, taking away beds from the normal hospital population. So out of 288 general beds, 80 of them are COVID beds. The general med patients are displaced and are the folks that are waiting for a bed in the ER.

[SumJongGuy]

Worse. In her hospital, not counting the ICU's, the floors are divided into two sections each with about 40 beds. Two of those sections are now devoted solely to COVID patients, taking away beds from the normal hospital population. So out of 288 general beds, 80 of them are COVID beds. The general med patients are displaced and are the folks that are waiting for a bed in the ER.

And when the ER's full too like now folks going to the ER are told to wait in their cars for a call because the ER lobby is full of COVID patients too. At least that's what we experienced last time we had a medical emergency last December..

[old goat]

There are a lot of kids getting sick from delta. Not super high acuity or a super high death rate. But there's no reason to drag our feet on the matter.

I'm looking forward to getting my older kid her shots. Not too much longer for the 6m-5yo group, either, from what I understand.

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk

Data?

Ya , I get the intended use but how is any of it useful and how when it is so full of garbage data. Has any useful research ever come out of it? I can’t fathom such a mess being useful

No, you don't get the intended use. It is not a research tool. It is not data. It is an early warning system for possible vaccine reactions and side effects. It is of use to people in the vaccine making, testing, regulating, and giving business who are willing to sort through the garbage. It is probably most useful for the first few million doses given after approval. So someone at the FDA or a maker can pull out all the reports on a new vaccine and see if there is anything that warrants further examination. It does require sorting through a lot of crap--but even the crap might be important. My kid fell down and banged his head after he got a shot. Well, maybe the vaccine is causing neurological problems. If there are a lot of reports of kids falling down with one particular vaccine it's worth looking into.

There is post marketing surveillance of all drugs and devices. Docs report adverse reactions to the FDA. I've used the reporting system. I don't recall if there are any restrictions on who can report and I'm not aware if there's a publicly accessible database other than the FOIA. Certainly the plaintiffs' bar keeps an eye on such things.

"Don't criticize what you can't understand"--B. Dylan, in a wildly different context.

[skiJ]

it's (VAERS ) being used as 'data' - and

the 'studies' that are being (published) are being,,, treated like ( 'research' ) in the internet Information age...


I will go back and look for the 'studies' that were citied in restricting Moderna in Sweden and Denmark. . .

( the reports I read last weekend, stated specifically(,) there was "no follow-up" ( about the VAERS reports used to generate the 'study' ) )

I will follow-up. tj


postscript -

... and Finland -

none of the half a dozen articles I reviewed included a link to the Swedish study, which reportedly gathered ( data / information ) from Sweden, Denmark, and Finland -

the 'report' has reportedly been submitted to Sweden's Regulatory agency for review - expected within thirty days. ...


... happy hunting. tj

[altasnob]

Pfizer asks for an EUA for kids. I'm surprised. I expected them to go through the whole full authorization process and not ask for the EUA. I haven't seen the figures for 5-12's--maybe there are more kids getting sick and dying than I realize. Given the number of unvaccinated adults it's hard to justify asking for an EUA on the basis of controlling the pandemic.

This. I would think approval should focus on the benefit-risk for kids, and not take into consideration the benefit to 65+ year olds.

[altasnob]

Sweden pausing Moderna for those under 30, Denmark for those under 18, after data pointed to an increase of myocarditis and pericarditis among youths that had been vaccinated. Suggesting Pfizer instead.

Finland as well. Moderna paused for men 12-30, due to higher risk in men.

[CarlMega]

Does seem like a tool that was designed in the days before Boatie McBoatface and troll farms.

Agreed. Undermining and weaponizing the tool/data was at a totally different level in times past. That's common sport these days. Can the controls be put in place that mitigate that and still have the system be useful? That's for the experts.

[old_newguy]

This. I would think approval should focus on the benefit-risk for kids, and not take into consideration the benefit to 65+ year olds.

Sure, but then why should a 20 year old (pick your age range that is at relatively low risk) get vaccinated? What is the risk/benefit for them?

It’s about getting to a level of immunity that protects the entire community, not just kids or 65+ or immune compromised, etc.

I admit being sympathetic to this overall argument though as someone with kids. Why should my kids take a risk with low benefit to protect adults who similarly have low risk from vaccination but comparatively high risk to COVID but won’t get vaccinated?

[altasnob]

Totally disagree with that. In the case of a 20 year old, the risks associated with COVID DOES outweigh the risks associated with the vaccine. And maybe that will be true for kids under 12, once everything is properly analyzed. But we should never kill off our children just to save old people. Too much of our society already focuses on old people instead of children.

[wooley12]

This. I would think approval should focus on the benefit-risk for kids, and not take into consideration the benefit to 65+ year olds.

I'm 73 with grandkids under 12. Please, do go on and justify your opinion.

[SumJongGuy]

I'd like to thank SkiJ for being a voice of reason and advocate for staying on topic in this discussion/thread. Your patience and restraint far surpasses my own.

[skiJ]

guys...

the trials are done ( I believe both Pfizer and Moderna have submitted their results to FDA ( though I suspect Moderna is going to have additional testing to do Because of the European restrictions ( still have not seen the study on which that decision is based. ) ) ) ;

tens of millions of people have received these vaccines
( serious complications ( long-term health effects ( including death) are Very rare ) ) --


covid in children is less uncommon Because of Delta -

If the testing in children meets the Criteria, vaccination is going to be the most effective method to reduce the risk to the child - And it will reduce the risk of the spread of covid through vaccination.

If the testing in children meets the Criteria, the only way to expand the data is with additional vaccinations
( my reading is Pfizer used a product that has one-third the dose - of a product that has been given to Tens of Millions of people with few side effects ) -


I do not see this as a matter of vaccinating children to try to protect seniors -
while vaccinating children may enhance protection for a few senior in specific situations, and may contribute to a decrease in the spread of disease,
I believe the primary benefit of vaccinating children will be the immunity for the child
( especially as childhood disease is less uncommon with Delta ).


I still promote vaccination - Please...

respectfully. tj