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  1. #17201
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    Any doubts about vaccination status?
    Still a pandemic of the unvaccinated
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    Just a small sample


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  2. #17202
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    Any scientists want to comment on the validity of this study or it's authors?

    Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning

    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1...rXqiT68YdfYeAU
    No comments on the merits, but the author seems to be a bit of a quack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Gundry

  3. #17203
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    Any doubts about vaccination status?
    Still a pandemic of the unvaccinated
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    Just a small sample


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    Small sample but I would bet dollars to donuts is the same in most hospitals. It is the same in mine.

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  4. #17204
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinipenem View Post
    Small sample but I would bet dollars to donuts is the same in most hospitals. It is the same in mine.

    Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
    Oh, totally. It’s been this way for months here


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  5. #17205
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    Quote Originally Posted by teledad View Post
    No comments on the merits, but the author seems to be a bit of a quack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Gundry
    The story was posted in the FB sewer on the "Unmask Our Kids" page.

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    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  6. #17206
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    What about myocarditis and its relation to the vaccine and booster shots?

    Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I just heard about it. Personally, there is nothing that I can do about it, as I have already received 3 shots.
    “A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”
    ― Milton Friedman

  7. #17207
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    Quote Originally Posted by schindlerpiste View Post
    What about myocarditis and its relation to the vaccine and booster shots?
    Also a risk from actually contracting Covid:
    During March 2020–January 2021, patients with COVID-19 had nearly 16 times the risk for myocarditis compared with patients who did not have COVID-19, and risk varied by sex and age.
    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm

  8. #17208
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    Any scientists want to comment on the validity of this study or it's authors?

    Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning

    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1...rXqiT68YdfYeAU
    While the first author sounds a little sketchy, this is a peer reviewed published study in a top tier medical journal and should be taken seriously.

    I can't find anything in Pubmed about the PULS (not PLUS) score or anything on Google from a non-commercial source. There has been a lot of talk over the years about the role of inflammation in coronary artery disease and other vascular disease but AFAIK nothing has been nailed down. If in fact the PULS score is a good predictor it may or may not be valid for presumably short term inflammation produced by a vaccination. It would be interesting to know what happens to the PULS score after other vaccinations. The author's conclusion that increased endothelial (lining of heart and blood vessels) inflammation could explain blood clots and myocarditis after vaccination is not unreasonable, but these reactions are still rare. Whether there is any longer term implication for heart disease is unknown and would seem to be worthy of study.

    It would be interesting to see if there are any published comments or an editorial included in the journal issue, and if the authors say anything about the PULS score after other vaccines. Maybe one of our non retired scientists have access to the full text.

  9. #17209
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    Any doubts about vaccination status?
    Still a pandemic of the unvaccinated
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just a small sample


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    Fake news. Crisis actors.





























    JK.
    I see hydraulic turtles.

  10. #17210
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    Today in COVID world... Realized leaving Sam's Club that I never put my mask on when shopping there for half an hour. Reached up to remove the mask and realized it was still in my pocked. Asked wife who was with me why she didn't tell me I forgot my mask and we both kinda laughed.. nobody said anything and masks are still required indoors here..

    Then a little later wife totally gave out and went to the car before we could checkout at the last stop.. exactly 24 hours after she got her booster yesterday. She's done for the day at 3pm..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  11. #17211
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    While the first author sounds a little sketchy, this is a peer reviewed published study in a top tier medical journal and should be taken seriously.

    I can't find anything in Pubmed about the PULS (not PLUS) score or anything on Google from a non-commercial source. There has been a lot of talk over the years about the role of inflammation in coronary artery disease and other vascular disease but AFAIK nothing has been nailed down. If in fact the PULS score is a good predictor it may or may not be valid for presumably short term inflammation produced by a vaccination. It would be interesting to know what happens to the PULS score after other vaccinations. The author's conclusion that increased endothelial (lining of heart and blood vessels) inflammation could explain blood clots and myocarditis after vaccination is not unreasonable, but these reactions are still rare. Whether there is any longer term implication for heart disease is unknown and would seem to be worthy of study.

    It would be interesting to see if there are any published comments or an editorial included in the journal issue, and if the authors say anything about the PULS score after other vaccines. Maybe one of our non retired scientists have access to the full text.
    Not peer reviewed- it's a published abstract from an online symposium for a presentation, there is no associated publication.



    Single author? Is suspect for any study like this.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  12. #17212
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    Quote Originally Posted by schindlerpiste View Post
    What about myocarditis and its relation to the vaccine and booster shots?

    Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I just heard about it. Personally, there is nothing that I can do about it, as I have already received 3 shots.
    Seems to be an issue for young men. Has to do with testosterone levels.


    The Novel Platform of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines and Myocarditis: Clues into the Potential Underlying Mechanism



    Although rare, the identified association can be serious as shown by the finding that a large proportion of cases did not recover and by the (albeit few) fatalities. The association of myocarditis with male sex and younger age could be attributed to sex hormones which may account for a more intense inflammatory response. As suggested by experimental studies on myocarditis in mice, testosterone may be implicated in the inhibition of anti-inflammatory cells and the stimulation of immune responses mediated by Th1-lymphocytes [3].
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  13. #17213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    It's not delivered by volume, it's by number of mRNA molecules and by concentration of the formulation:

    100ug in a .5ml injection, = 200ug/ml.

    30 ug in a 0.3ml injection = 100ug/ml.

    The ug number represents the number of mRNA molecules in the dosage( divide ug number by mRNA molecular weight) is more important than the volume of the dose, which is a function of the concentration of the formulation.

    Regardless, the difference of a 50 ug booster vs a 30 ug booster isn't as stark as a 30 vs 100ug regimen, when assessing induction of neutralizing ab titers and also AEs.
    Perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention, but from what little I know, the relative response rates from the mix-and-match studies is entirely based on surrogate markers, primarily B-cell response re: measurable antibody tirtres, completely ignoring T-cell response or (more importantly) actual clinical outcomes.

    And even then, it seems they're talking about relative increases in titres rather than absolute increments, and since we don't know that represents a "threshold" level for protection, we really don't know which mix-and-match combo is actually "better" IRL.

    In essence, the scatter plots I recall seeing don't relate the quantifiable differences with actual protection, just a measurable quanta that may or may not represent a meaningful clinical differential.

    It's like XXX-ers take - people who are getting worked up about which mix-and-match combo to get are just doing the bougie Starbucks triple latte with oat milk versus chai latte with almond milk and a shot of espresso on the side.

    We're paralyzed or over-reliant on choices when the point is to get a booster, not worry about what kind.

    But of course, this is a community that obsesses over mounting a binder at -1 cm vs -1.5 cm.

  14. #17214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tri-Ungulate View Post
    Perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention, but from what little I know, the relative response rates from the mix-and-match studies is entirely based on surrogate markers, primarily B-cell response re: measurable antibody tirtres, completely ignoring T-cell response or (more importantly) actual clinical outcomes.

    And even then, it seems they're talking about relative increases in titres rather than absolute increments, and since we don't know that represents a "threshold" level for protection, we really don't know which mix-and-match combo is actually "better" IRL.

    In essence, the scatter plots I recall seeing don't relate the quantifiable differences with actual protection, just a measurable quanta that may or may not represent a meaningful clinical differential.

    It's like XXX-ers take - people who are getting worked up about which mix-and-match combo to get are just doing the bougie Starbucks triple latte with oat milk versus chai latte with almond milk and a shot of espresso on the side.

    We're paralyzed or over-reliant on choices when the point is to get a booster, not worry about what kind.

    But of course, this is a community that obsesses over mounting a binder at -1 cm vs -1.5 cm.
    Wasn't the original thought less about mixing & matching any and all but more about Pfizer people switching hoping to reap the benefit of greater efficacy that Moderna seemed to possess?
    Last edited by KQ; 11-22-2021 at 09:03 AM.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  15. #17215
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    Right, KQ.

    But the "better efficacy" argument of switching from Pfizer to ModeRNA is (at least to my knowledge) based on a fairly small study using relative increase in antibody titre as its endpoint. The study makes no claims as to whether the booster brand switch is actually more effective in real life, at least as far as clinical outcomes.

    Which is understandable, as being able to detect a meaningful difference would almost certainly require much larger numbers of enrolled patients, and be difficult to interpret for a number of reasons, most of which revolve around finding/defining an adequate "control" population, especially if the study is retrospective in nature.

    I mean, the study could be done, but not quickly or easily. Designing meaningful prospective randomized controlled studies can be really difficult, at least in my experience.

  16. #17216
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    I had thought it was so unlikely that mixing the mRNAs would matter that I totally missed that Liv2ski may have actually been dithering about that. I'll be over here re-calibrating my intuition about other people's intuition now.

    Isn't the major argument for sticking with one more public health than private? Like help the CDC have less variables to track or reflect on later, maybe worst case reduce the chance of some rare unknown affecting everyone?

  17. #17217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    Not peer reviewed- it's a published abstract from an online symposium for a presentation, there is no associated publication.



    Single author? Is suspect for any study like this.
    I didn't appreciate that. Thanks for pointing it out. And yeah, single author is definitely suspect. We don't have supplements and online symposia and other such silliness in surgery, (although we have papers presented at meetings and then published that don't meet the same standards as papers submitted to the journal for publication. I got a couple of otherwise poor quality papers published that way and got to get to have free vacations in Colorado Springs at the Broadmoor and on Marco Island Florida.)

  18. #17218
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    The story was posted in the FB sewer on the "Unmask Our Kids" page.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    have you ever that about not being a pawn in zuckerbitches sad game?
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  19. #17219
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    Yep. I've thought about that. I'd rather that I could look away from this train wreck while it's happening. But I won't.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  20. #17220
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    Got a call from the health department yesterday "Contact Tracing" on caller ID. They were asking about my daughter and wanted to know if I would book an appointment to get her vaccinated now that kids 5-12 are approved. I was like WTF?? she's almost 18 and was vaccinated getting her 2nd dose last April. Then they asked if I could give them the dates and batch numbers. I said she has her card with her at school. So they ask where was she vaxxed? I told them at YOUR clinic held at a local public school last February and April. Part of me wonders if it was actually someone phishing for valid dates and batch numbers to fake vaccine cards. I told them to look it up on their end and hung up.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  21. #17221
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Got a call from the health department yesterday "Contact Tracing" on caller ID. They were asking about my daughter and wanted to know if I would book an appointment to get her vaccinated now that kids 5-12 are approved. I was like WTF?? she's almost 18 and was vaccinated getting her 2nd dose last April. Then they asked if I could give them the dates and batch numbers. I said she has her card with her at school. So they ask where was she vaxxed? I told them at YOUR clinic held at a local public school last February and April. Part of me wonders if it was actually someone phishing for valid dates and batch numbers to fake vaccine cards. I told them to look it up on their end and hung up.
    sounds well organized.
    Skiing in the rockies is like 70's porn

    Lots of bush

    Some wood

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  22. #17222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    sounds well organized.
    You must be new here. New to the planet I mean.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  23. #17223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tri-Ungulate View Post
    But of course, this is a community that obsesses over mounting a binder at -1 cm vs -1.5 cm.
    And god forbid anyone mounts on the line!

  24. #17224
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    Jab your own fucking booster shot...
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  25. #17225
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Got a call from the health department yesterday "Contact Tracing" on caller ID. They were asking about my daughter and wanted to know if I would book an appointment to get her vaccinated now that kids 5-12 are approved. I was like WTF?? she's almost 18 and was vaccinated getting her 2nd dose last April. Then they asked if I could give them the dates and batch numbers. I said she has her card with her at school. So they ask where was she vaxxed? I told them at YOUR clinic held at a local public school last February and April. Part of me wonders if it was actually someone phishing for valid dates and batch numbers to fake vaccine cards. I told them to look it up on their end and hung up.
    If that's not a phishing scam yet, it will be soon. Anyone who gives all that info to someone that called their phone is probably willing to hand over a SSN by the end of the call, too. It would be interesting to hear what they say if you call your local health department and ask them if the call was legit.

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