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  1. #17451
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    OK, to all you OAN gargling right wing parler consuming Bannonites: the Southern US border is not our source of problems for most infectious disease especially COVID (except TB, Peru has bad MDR TB and Brazil has a TB/HIV prevalence issue). Most Central and South American countries have higher vaccination rates for most vaccine preventable illnesses than the USA and right leaning Americans are the primary antivax groups for COVID. Race is not the issue for COVID unless you mean white right males who are antivax and antimask. So STFU about that.

    OK, to you left leaning gotta oppose anything that might possibly be racist (or any idea that is supported by a racist even if the idea is not) types who run literally any fact or good idea through that thought blender before evaluating it: just because racists exist and Trump was a racist president does not mean that border controls are bad, that temporary travel bans are primae facie ineffective, or that we can talk about world health measures only up until we are suddenly banned from talking about disease prevalence if people are of a certain skin tone or from certain geographic areas. Africa is a MDR TB and HIV AIDS disaster. Because people in Western and Sub-Saharan Africa are predominantly "black" does NOT make them diseased and dirty. Africa is the poorest continent and there is high disease prevalence that tracks poverty. Knock yourself out talking about the historic reasons for it, but we are dealing with the now. And please stop thinking everyone who lives in Africa is black or that "black" as American culture discourse defines the term carries over to some monolithic transnational identity on the African continent, because it doesn't!

    Now, let's return to discussing Unicron:

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    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  2. #17452
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I see hydraulic turtles.

  3. #17453
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    Sigh....

    By the time a new variant is identified and if it is in a city that is internationally connected by air travel it is probably too late for containment.

    As for Racist VS Woke, yeah, whatever.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  4. #17454
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    61 Omicron cases in Netherlands.

    We should IMMEDIATELY ban all non-essential travelers coming from/through Europe & Africa.

    All essential travel (returning US citizens/residents) should quarantine.

    This isn't about containment. Omicron will come. This is about delaying and rate limiting to allow us to determine the threat and prepare a response if one is necessary.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  5. #17455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    61 Omicron cases in Netherlands.

    We should IMMEDIATELY ban all non-essential travelers coming from/through Europe & Africa.

    All essential travel (returning US citizens/residents) should quarantine.

    This isn't about containment. Omicron will come. This is about delaying and rate limiting to allow us to determine the threat and prepare a response if one is necessary.

    Agreed!! Two weeks could be the difference for life and death for tens of thousands.

  6. #17456
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    Just got my booster and flu shots at the same time, one in each arm of course. Slow roasting chicken and potatoes, Netflix on cue, doubled-down on the CBD and ready for battle.

  7. #17457
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    Quote Originally Posted by turner716 View Post
    Genetically speaking not very much when compared to say an Englishman and an African.
    ...

  8. #17458
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    Seven posts to ignore list. Turner716 sets a new record

  9. #17459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    temporary travel bans are primae facie ineffective
    Early data suggest Omicron is as transmissible (or more) than Delta and it is not contained to the Southern African continent. So what is your response to leaders of Southern African countries who complain about G7 countries hoarding vaccines and punishing their countries for having more extensive genetic testing than, say, the US? As you point out, COVID is really no big deal, relatively speaking, in Africa. So why should they give a fuck? Why should they spend any money at all on genetic testing if, when, they do the honest thing and alert the world about the new variant the G7 countries' first response is to ban travel from the countries doing the alerting (despite most experts saying it won't really accomplish anything).

  10. #17460
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    Have we considered closing the southern border? I’ve heard those dirty UK travelers like to fly to Mexico City then pay a coyote to sneak across the Rio Grande.

    International air travel, how does it work?
    Do you really think this is how covid got around, via a pennyless illegal running across the border to get a shitty job in America ?

    OR does covid get around on really nice clean people who have assloads of money which they spend to travel cuz they have great jobs where they meet other really nice clean people from all over the world who also have assloads of money to travel ?

    In 2020 heli skiing in BC got shut down because 3 people in 3 ops tested positive, I'm pretty sure they just flew in and rented a car ... no coyotes involved
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  11. #17461
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    The banning of travel isnít a punishment, nor a comeuppanceó itís a public health measure

    In a world with rampant uncontrollable virus spread, the suppression of trade or tourism isnít the primary problem

  12. #17462
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Early data suggest Omicron is as transmissible (or more) than Delta and it is not contained to the Southern African continent. So what is your response to leaders of Southern African countries who complain about G7 countries hoarding vaccines and punishing their countries for having more extensive genetic testing than, say, the US? As you point out, COVID is really no big deal, relatively speaking, in Africa. So why should they give a fuck? Why should they spend any money at all on genetic testing if, when, they do the honest thing and alert the world about the new variant the G7 countries' first response is to ban travel from the countries doing the alerting (despite most experts saying it won't really accomplish anything).
    My response is that is a bunch of South African politician BS spew.

    South Africa has ample vaccine stocks and refused further deliveries due to lack of demand. South Africa may in fact have been one the few countries where, pre-Omicron, the pandemic had morphed into endemic levels due to massive infection during the last year.

    And if you think I said that COVID was no big deal in South Africa, you didn't read my posts. It was a HUGE deal in South Africa. HUGE. Things were Italy 2020 bad. (Italy and SA have about the same population size, but median age in Italy is 47 vs 27 in SA while cumulative deaths are 134K vs 90K respectively).

    South Africa is not its neighbors.

    South Africa is NOT the best or only place performing genetic sequencing. They are not more extensive than the US. Seriously. Who the fuck told you that load of bullshit? They have sequenced like 0.5% of cases while we have gotten up to close to 5% of current testing, which is about where we need to be.

    You would have been telling us about how we shouldn't take one single action against the PRC because we would be punishing them for sharing information January. Well, unlike China, I think South Africa is acting in good faith. Your logic is the same logic of the people screaming RACIST about wanting to ban travel from/through China in mid-January 2020.

    So all that said, what exactly is your proposed response to knowing about a potential new VOC that has a geographically oriented primary prevalence that we could take some self protective action against?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  13. #17463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    My response is that is a bunch of South African politician BS spew.

    South Africa has ample vaccine stocks and refused further deliveries due to lack of demand. South Africa may in fact have been one the few countries where, pre-Omicron, the pandemic had morphed into endemic levels due to massive infection during the last year.

    And if you think I said that COVID was no big deal in South Africa, you didn't read my posts. It was a HUGE deal in South Africa. HUGE. Things were Italy 2020 bad. (Italy and SA have about the same population size, but median age in Italy is 47 vs 27 in SA while cumulative deaths are 134K vs 90K respectively).

    South Africa is not its neighbors.

    South Africa is NOT the best or only place performing genetic sequencing. They are not more extensive than the US. Seriously. Who the fuck told you that load of bullshit?

    You would have been telling us about how we shouldn't take one single action against the PRC because we would be punishing them for sharing information January. Well, unlike China, I think South Africa is acting in good faith. Your logic is the same logic of the people screaming RACIST about wanting to ban travel from/through China in mid-January 2020.

    So all that said, what exactly is your proposed response to knowing about a potential new VOC that has a geographically oriented primary prevalence that we could take some self protective action against?
    Donít question altaslob, he knows everything. He is an attorney in Tacoma after all and the most woke person on the planet.


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  14. #17464
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    Are you really this dense or stoned?
    No I just think Covid gets around on international travelers with the means to travel easily in international airports

    most of the Covid originaly came to USA from china thru Yurp

    and in other news worldometer is just about to clock 800,000 dead Americans

    should happen tomorrow
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  15. #17465
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    Worried about dirt immigrants 1400 miles away taking their white collar college grad job...

    Worried about same dirt poor immigrants giving them COVID but won't wear a mask or get the vaccine...

    Did I miss something??
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  16. #17466
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    No I just think Covid gets around on international travelers with the means to travel easily in international airports

    most of the Covid originaly came to USA from china thru Yurp

    and in other news worldometer is just about to clock 800,000 dead Americans

    should happen tomorrow
    You should pay more attention to your sarcasm meter than the worldometer


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  17. #17467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    My response is that is a bunch of South African politician BS spew.

    South Africa has ample vaccine stocks and refused further deliveries due to lack of demand. South Africa may in fact have been one the few countries where, pre-Omicron, the pandemic had morphed into endemic levels due to massive infection during the last year.

    And if you think I said that COVID was no big deal in South Africa, you didn't read my posts. It was a HUGE deal in South Africa. HUGE. Things were Italy 2020 bad. (Italy and SA have about the same population size, but median age in Italy is 47 vs 27 in SA while cumulative deaths are 134K vs 90K respectively).

    South Africa is not its neighbors.

    South Africa is NOT the best or only place performing genetic sequencing. They are not more extensive than the US. Seriously. Who the fuck told you that load of bullshit? They have sequenced like 0.5% of cases while we have gotten up to close to 5% of current testing, which is about where we need to be.

    You would have been telling us about how we shouldn't take one single action against the PRC because we would be punishing them for sharing information January. Well, unlike China, I think South Africa is acting in good faith. Your logic is the same logic of the people screaming RACIST about wanting to ban travel from/through China in mid-January 2020.

    So all that said, what exactly is your proposed response to knowing about a potential new VOC that has a geographically oriented primary prevalence that we could take some self protective action against?
    300,000+ people came from the PRC after the “travel ban” took effect. It was never a travel ban, and neither is this. It’s a ban on foreigners traveling to the US. some antivax lardass Texan on coming back from his hunting safari in Zimbabwe is likely more a risk, but they are fine.

  18. #17468
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    300,000+ people came from the PRC after the ďtravel banĒ took effect. It was never a travel ban, and neither is this. Itís a ban on foreigners traveling to the US. some antivax lardass Texan on coming back from his hunting safari in Zimbabwe is likely more a risk, but they are fine.
    I think itís a bit different this time with better testing for US citizens returning. It could buy a little time. On the other hand this could be the end.


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  19. #17469
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    So why did you respond to my clearly sarcastic post as if I needed to be educated on how disease moves via international air travel?
    are you still fucking little boys is the more pressing question
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  20. #17470
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    The banning of travel isnít a punishment, nor a comeuppanceó itís a public health measure

    In a world with rampant uncontrollable virus spread, the suppression of trade or tourism isnít the primary problem
    I honestly an starting to doubt seatbelts or airbags could be introduced to the US in the present environment. Because they don't prevent all deaths. I hope I'm wrong and just being too pessimistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post

    South Africa is NOT the best or only place performing genetic sequencing. They are not more extensive than the US. Seriously. Who the fuck told you that load of bullshit? They have sequenced like 0.5% of cases while we have gotten up to close to 5% of current testing, which is about where we need to be.
    Who is doing the most sequencing? Or I guess it could be several countries. And why is 5% were it needs to be, is that just cost/effort per detection of variants or are variants rare enough that any more sequencing is wasted?

  21. #17471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    My response is that is a bunch of South African politician BS spew.

    South Africa has ample vaccine stocks and refused further deliveries due to lack of demand. South Africa may in fact have been one the few countries where, pre-Omicron, the pandemic had morphed into endemic levels due to massive infection during the last year.

    And if you think I said that COVID was no big deal in South Africa, you didn't read my posts. It was a HUGE deal in South Africa. HUGE. Things were Italy 2020 bad. (Italy and SA have about the same population size, but median age in Italy is 47 vs 27 in SA while cumulative deaths are 134K vs 90K respectively).

    South Africa is not its neighbors.

    South Africa is NOT the best or only place performing genetic sequencing. They are not more extensive than the US. Seriously. Who the fuck told you that load of bullshit? They have sequenced like 0.5% of cases while we have gotten up to close to 5% of current testing, which is about where we need to be.

    You would have been telling us about how we shouldn't take one single action against the PRC because we would be punishing them for sharing information January. Well, unlike China, I think South Africa is acting in good faith. Your logic is the same logic of the people screaming RACIST about wanting to ban travel from/through China in mid-January 2020.

    So all that said, what exactly is your proposed response to knowing about a potential new VOC that has a geographically oriented primary prevalence that we could take some self protective action against?
    Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health, echoes a lot of what I said in an opinion column in today's NYTimes.

    Second, the United States must ramp up genomic surveillance — monitoring viral genes and how they evolve over time — to identify Omicron when it arrives and track it as it potentially spreads through the country. The United States has been a surprising laggard on genomic sequencing and must do better.
    Lastly, America must push for a global effort to get more people in Africa vaccinated. While global vaccinations have been rising quickly, much of the African continent has been left behind. In South Africa, just under a quarter of the population has been fully vaccinated.
    And from his twitter:

    The signal to the next country is

    If you identify a variant and share it with the global community

    You will be punished with a travel ban

    I am not pro or anti travel bans

    They can be useful in instances

    But we should know that its weak tool for fighting a global pandemic
    This isn't about woke. It's not about racism. It's about enacting policies that actually accomplish things rather than policies that just sooth the constituents' fears. There are costs to travel bans and it is not just people vacationing to South Africa. Most of the people affected are not traveling for leisure but to be with their family. And it certainly deters countries from being honest with their data. I'm all for strict travel bans if you can convince me they will actually accomplish something. In this particular case, I am not convinced. Rather than a ban, why can you not require a 14 day quarantine? I wouldn't oppose proof of vaccination and a quarantine (the Belgium chick was not vaccinated).

    What I really dislike about travel bans is people assume they work and when they realize they don't work, they blame the government (which further deters people's faith in their government). From the beginning of this pandemic, every country has had a me first, insular reaction. It's as if we can gate off the rich from the peons in the ghetto. Experts have been saying from the beginning that this is not possible. You cannot wall off the problem, you need to address the problem where it lies (i.e. vaccinating poor countries with effective vaccines). The travel-ban, wall-off attitude permeates through other areas of policy. I mean, look at MTT who is honestly trying to claim that the southern border is somehow a COVID concern right now. There are a lot more MTTs in the US than Summits.
    Last edited by altasnob; 11-27-2021 at 01:26 PM.

  22. #17472
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    300,000+ people came from the PRC after the ďtravel banĒ took effect. It was never a travel ban, and neither is this. Itís a ban on foreigners traveling to the US. some antivax lardass Texan on coming back from his hunting safari in Zimbabwe is likely more a risk, but they are fine.
    I agree what we did was a joke in January 2020, sadly, and we paid for it. It was by Chinese design and American incompetence. We weren't testing and we weren't even symptom screening. Quarantine should have been the order of the day and it wasn't.

    I'm advocating for better: anyone transiting or originating from the region banned or quarantined. Probably it needs to last about 120 days, evaluate every 30 days. If Omicron becomes widespread in the US, end the ban. If Omicron is deemed a non-threat, end the ban. Govs don't follow this. Look at Canada, they only lifted the US travel ban in August.

    Unlike 2020, there is at least a blanket testing requirement, which will catch the majority.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  23. #17473
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    I honestly an starting to doubt seatbelts or airbags could be introduced to the US in the present environment. Because they don't prevent all deaths. I hope I'm wrong and just being too pessimistic.
    You are not wrong
    Itís tribalism first, thoughtfulness/common sense later

  24. #17474
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    IWho is doing the most sequencing? Or I guess it could be several countries. And why is 5% were it needs to be, is that just cost/effort per detection of variants or are variants rare enough that any more sequencing is wasted?
    Australia, NZ, Iceland (last I looked) are doing the most sequencing... they were hitting half or most cases.

    WHO recommends >5%.

    See, the point is not to ID every case, because for the most part you don't treat cases different based on variant (although you could have targeted MAB if you had timely results). The point is to detect emergent VOCs early and understand prevalence trends of variants. Basically, is a new variant behind a local spike and is that a threat?

    We only really started surveillance in the US at the end of 2020 and it was a modest start. We expanded capacity significantly during 2021.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  25. #17475
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    Just call them freedom belts

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