To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[skiJ]

bmac is correct -
I may not have the right term/word, but a 'hyper-immune' response IS known and documented in medical literature.
I believe months ago the goat postured it as the body's response to the virus killed the body.

I have a friend in critical care that related that a vital early intervention in many cases is immunosuppression to prevent the hyper-immune response.


WrG -
my opinion / my experience,
( Please ) Don't let it be infuriating.
Just recognize it - adjust. and give it a big, 'F you, post covid. ' - You shall survive this. !

( the Stress of being 'infuriated' is Not healthy.
You are a young, otherwise-healthy man.
getting 'charged-up' is Normal ;
Be-ing Calm is healthy.

I got through some heart health risk a couple years ago, in-car, by just letting go of some b.s. I am prone to stress about.
I can do that at sixty ( it would have been a lot harder at forty ).

(Please )
keep taking Good Care of yourself ! And just give post covid a big, 'F you (post covid) '

... symptoms can linger - outlive the symptoms.
( brain fog is a p.i.t.a. )

' Glad you were skiing !

bmac is correct - 'hyper-immune' is a thing.


Good luck ! skiJ

[skiJ]

clarification -

fitness is not correlated to 'hyper-immune'.

And 'hyper-immune' is a thing.
( I want to compare it to anaphylaxis ( allergic Shock ) and it may not correlate in any way to anaphylaxis physiologically.
But as David described the treatment, that what it reminded me of -- )

but from my reading,
'hyper-immune' is independent of fitness...


Good luck ! skiJ

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I have to think if my symptoms don't improve for a while the race season may just be a wash and I'll get a dog and ride lots of cruisey bike park laps this summer.

[SumJongGuy]

clarification -

fitness is not correlated to 'hyper-immune'.

Agreed, my hypothesis is that fitness level is correlated with viral load and volume of air captured by the lungs of a healthier person. But that also increases the body's ability to fight and expel that higher viral load..

[bennymac]

I know we’re just spit ballin here - and I get what your saying - but I’d guess there are way more relevant and important factors involved in the resultant initial viral load into the respiratory tract than “fitness” of said respiratory system

[skiJ]

SJG -
I have no argument with your theory.

bmac referred to something I have heard previously - 'hyper-immune' / super-immune - it's probably an easy Search.

reviewing the posts, I realized what I had read and heard is specifically independent of fitness. And

I did not WrG thinking I was implicating his superior fitness.
The virus does what viruses do.

Good health is helpful - and No guarantee ( remember mtu ) ;

immunity is a lot more important
( my well-worn vaccination drum ) --


I have no-argument with your theory.

WrG.
Much of Race season is still three months distant -
That is both a long way off, and 'just after tomorrow' ;

You can ride tomorrow in the ''post-covid class' -
so much of Life these days is about adjusting expectation !
Your idea about cruising with a bikeDog gave me a Good laugh !
( there are a lot of maggs that love riding with their bikeDog ! )

carry On !
give post-covid an 'F you (post covid)'


Good luck ! skiJ

[skiJ]

"Hyperinflammation" and
"Hyperinflammatory response "

it is a quick, easy Search. skiJ

[Tri-Ungulate]

Yeah, no, kinda, maybe.

Yeah, an inappropriate, perhaps "hyper" immune response is postulated to be the underlying cause of the inflammatory cascade that can lead to significant morbidity and/or mortality in many COVID19 patients, especially younger ones. Plenty of data for that.

No, the degree of immune response, whether it is inappropriately avid (leading to any number of bad inflammatory/coagulopathic outcomes), or inappropriately tepid (leading to unchecked infection), does not directly relate to an individuals level of baseline aerobic or strength-related fitness.

Kinda, since younger people with more intact thymus (and therefore T-cell function) may have a more avid response, but not necessarily an over-avid response.

Maybe, as we still don't know as much as we should about the intricacies of the immune system in general, much less in regards to its response to SARS CoV2.

I'm gonna guess that an individual's lung vital capacity and expiratory volume (amount of air somebody moves per breath) probably doesn't correlate to expected viral load, although I suppose it's possible.

[skiJ]

Nice post, tri-u.

lots of good information, entertaining presentation - Thank you.

skiJ

[XXX-er]

imo nobody really knows if you will just get mild symptoms or die from covid

[skiJ]

immunity is helpful -
vaccination may provide immunity...

Please. Be vaccinated - and boostered

( reposts on booster last week ranged from 42% to 28%
( by now, most people should be eligible for the booster.

are we relying on omicron to be the booster... ? (??) )

Please be vaccinated and boostered.

my more recent feedback is encouragement to WrG.

Good luck. skiJ

[The AD]

Interesting that Covid cases are falling like a rock (although the trend is starting to flatten out), yet we're still only a bit below where we were at this point last year. On 2/27/21 average new cases were at 68,537 with 1,964 deaths per day in the U.S. This year those numbers are 65,762 and 1,876. It will be interesting to see where the "bottom" is after the omicron wave. I have a feeling it's not going to be all that low even though everyone seems to think we're in the clear now.

[climberevan]

Interesting that Covid cases are falling like a rock (although the trend is starting to flatten out), yet we're still only a bit below where we were at this point last year. On 2/27/21 average new cases were at 68,537 with 1,964 deaths per day in the U.S. This year those numbers are 65,762 and 1,876. It will be interesting to see where the "bottom" is after the omicron wave. I have a feeling it's not going to be all that low even though everyone seems to think we're in the clear now.

IMO the current CDC position and everyone's general change of behaviour is really just a sign that we've given up on trying to protect those who won't protect themselves. How many of the daily deaths or even hospitalizations are among the vaccinated? Those who eschew the vaccine have, at this point, chosen that risky path and the rest of us are done with them.

It does suck that there is collateral damage among those who genuinely can't get vaccinated and that there will undoubtedly be other scary variants.

I also think that people have lived with covid for a couple of years now, and they are becoming used to it. It's no longer a brand new risk in the world; rather, it's settling in as just another thing floating around out there that can kill you. It was bound to happen at some point.

[skiJ]

AD -
... posted much the same in Fear-and-loathing -

who knows (?), But
right now, the omicron curve is so steep, it is hard for me to believe it has much meaning...
immunity wanes; omicron is "immunity-evasive" ;
delta is still out there. And omicron can be fatal.

who know what the real numbers are... (?)

I have a friend who says he still feels symptoms Nine months after diagnosis...


( and now people are writing about the use of "small nukes" like it's a video game.

Not very happy with our species these days. . . )


thanks for listening...

Still beating
the vaccination drum... tj

[bodywhomper]

my favorite part of the cdc's new guidance is the recommendation, "If you are at high risk for severe illness, talk to your healthcare provider about whether you need to wear a mask and take other precautions." Total not a public health recommendation. What % of the population of the US fits into the list of "high risk for severe illness?" Here's the list:

chronic lung disease (includes asthma),
Cancer,
Cerebrovascular disease,
Chronic kidney disease,
Chronic liver disease (cirrhosis, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, alcoholic liver disease, autoimmune hepatitis) ,
COPD,
Cystic fibrosis,
Diabetes mellitus, type 1,
Diabetes mellitus, type 2,
Disabilities, including Down Syndrome,
HIV,
Heart conditions (such as heart failure, coronary artery disease, or cardiomyopathies) ,
Interstitial lung disease,
Mental health conditions (such as mood disorders, including depression, and schizophrenia spectrum disorders) ,
Neurologic conditions (Dementia) ,
Obesity,
Physical Inactivity,
Pregnancy and Recent Pregnancy,
Primary Immunodeficiencies,
Pulmonary hypertension and pulmonary embolism,
Smoking, current and former
Solid organ or blood stem cell transplantation
Tuberculosis
Use of corticosteroids or other immunosuppressive medications

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

"physical inactivity"

So like 90% of the US population?

[The AD]

My work just ended their mask mandate today,--well technically for those who are fully vaccinated, but you know the de facto is no one will be wearing a mask from now on at work.

[DougW]

Today picked up a hitch hiker up to the hill today. He asked if we wanted to him to mask up , we looked at each other for 1/2 sec and said no we're had it and he said he'd had it too. So fuck it.

Later asked a doc friend in yurt how it was dealing with unvaxxed. Well their aggressive , opinionated , have low levels of education and are usually country folk.

[highangle]

Today picked up a hitch hiker up to the hill today. He asked if we wanted to him to mask up , we looked at each other for 1/2 sec and said no we're had it and he said he'd had it too. So fuck it.

Later asked a doc friend in yurt how it was dealing with unvaxxed. Well their aggressive , opinionated , have low levels of education and are usually country folk.

They can get mighty aggressive when they're jacked up on that Mountain Dew...

[paulster2626]

"physical inactivity"

So like 90% of the US population?

According to the WHO, what does "physically active" mean?

Adults aged 18–64 years
*should do at least 150–300 minutes of moderate-intensity aerobic physical activity;
*or at least 75–150 minutes of vigorous-intensity aerobic physical activity; or an equivalent combination of moderate- and vigorous-intensity activity throughout the week
*should also do muscle-strengthening activities at moderate or greater intensity that involve all major muscle groups on 2 or more days a week, as these provide additional health benefits.
*may increase moderate-intensity aerobic physical activity to more than 300 minutes; or do more than 150 minutes of vigorous-intensity aerobic physical activity; or an equivalent combination of moderate- and vigorous-intensity activity throughout the week for additional health benefits.
*should limit the amount of time spent being sedentary. Replacing sedentary time with physical activity of any intensity (including light intensity) provides health benefits, and
to help reduce the detrimental effects of high levels of sedentary behaviour on health, all adults and older adults should aim to do more than the recommended levels of moderate- to vigorous-intensity physical activity

So at minimum 20 minutes of actual exercise a day, and crush some weights 2x a week. Seems reasonable. But yes, you are correct - 90% of the North American population probably doesn't fit this criteria.

[huckbucket]

This redneck, hillbilly and his daughter just caught it. All triple vaxxed (Pfizer). Daughter has been down and out for a week (headache, sore throat, fatigue, etc). She in quarantine in college. I'm on day two and wicked sore throat only.

Ski trip in T-minus 7 days so I'm pounding the fluids, vit-C and sleep.

[funkendrenchman]

This redneck, hillbilly and his daughter just caught it. All triple vaxxed (Pfizer). Daughter has been down and out for a week (headache, sore throat, fatigue, etc). She in quarantine in college. I'm on day two and wicked sore throat only.

Ski trip in T-minus 7 days so I'm pounding the fluids, vit-C and sleep.

Bummer. Throw in some UV light and Bleach. Can’t hurt. Oh wait, never mind.

[SumJongGuy]

This redneck, hillbilly and his daughter just caught it. All triple vaxxed (Pfizer). Daughter has been down and out for a week (headache, sore throat, fatigue, etc). She in quarantine in college. I'm on day two and wicked sore throat only.

Ski trip in T-minus 7 days so I'm pounding the fluids, vit-C and sleep.

If you had to get it, pretty good timing. Your immunities will be ski high for your vacation! Hope your energy is back at that point. Just mask up around others for your full 10 days of course.. Know you'll do that..

[frorider]

As I’m asking around, I’m realizing a lot of healthy youngish triple vaxxed friends got Omicron and were laid the fuck out for 10 or even 12 days. I’ve had it for 12 days now and was feeling ok yesterday but now my energy is low again.

The GPs won’t schedule appointments with anyone still showing symptoms, so it’s not clear to me how to get a review with a HC professional to see if the two antivirals might be appropriate to prescribe. I figured the other option would be to check into ER but that’s usually a 12 hour clusterfuck in the US and I don’t have the energy. GP office said that the local hospital has a Covid nurse who can help assess your situation over the phone — makes sense. But then I called back and was told there is no such nurse available.

I’m fine with saving the antivirals for those in a life threatening situation, but it is weird to see how untrained our local health care system is when it comes to basic process questions.

[oldnew_guy]

There are a number of articles lately noting how aside from just straight up dead people no longer working, long CoVID has likely removed a not insignificant number of people from the workforce.

When I got curious about this 4 or 5 months ago, I found a FNIH presentation where they estimated based on literature review that between 10 and 30 percent of non- serious (IE- not hospitalized) CoVID cases resulted in symptoms that lasted 12 weeks or more.

Its a totally untold story of this pandemic for some reason.