To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[ill-advised strategy]

Maybe That guy was Security.

Not a chance. 100% one of those far out ultra-rural survivalist guys we see up here making his 2x a year journey into town for more ammo or whatever.

Um, and you know this isn’t supposed to be a dig, he looked like if I was a little older, had your beard, wearing vietnam-style old school camo. Like a cross between you, me, and a bus station schizo.

My driving mask at work makes me look like a Juarez sicario. He was really eying me up.

Edit:

I was really quite pleased to be driving away, for sure.

[bagtagley]

Five point harness on the bus driver. Is that in case of a Speed type scenario?

[SumJongGuy]

[riser4]

Open carry at the grocery store is becoming the in thing. Some old guy last weekend here in VT. At least he had a permit for the handicapped spot.

[SumJongGuy]

White people around here are afraid to go anywhere without a gun. They also leave a spare gun in their car at all times. Every teenager (and older felon) in town who wants a gun now just goes out at night going car to car until they find one unlocked with a gun in the glove box or console. It doesn't take long at all. My 19 year said he has friends who talk how easy it is. NextDoor's filled with videos of kids opening car doors.. and it says "they didn't event take anything, just went through the glove box and console.." because they are looking for GUNS. The collateral damage from all those guns out in the community is devastating. MURIKA!

[riser4]

White people around here are afraid to go anywhere without a gun. They also leave a spare gun in their car at all times. Every teenager (and older felon) in town who wants a gun now just goes out at night going car to car until they find one unlocked with a gun in the glove box or console. It doesn't take long at all. My 19 year said he has friends who talk how easy it is. NextDoor's filled with videos of kids opening car doors.. and it says "they didn't event take anything, just went through the glove box and console.." because they are looking for GUNS. The collateral damage from all those guns out in the community is devastating. MURIKA!

This.

[skiJ]

i-as -

I didn't think he was Security - but I still hope - -

only camo. I have is a cheap RealTree jacket
( safety Orange is my preference )

it wasN't me - I am out of the area

( Maybe it was 'Jer'
( I don't see him here anymore... ) ) --

I appreciate your thoughtful posts, i-as --


let's send this thread back to covid Vaccination
( or maybe it will evolve to the infection-And-antiviral meds. thread... )

Please
don't. get. shot, my friend...

skiJ

[SumJongGuy]

Speaking of the antivirals.. It kinda sounds like they are talking about prescribing those new pills to EVERYONE the minute they test positive. The studies stressed early initiation was a big key to the success of the treatment. That's going to be a lot of money compared to a treatment that only has to be administered and that works when someone takes a turn for the worse. Still seems like the vaccine is the best alternative to all of this..

[XXX-er]

So what is the point of a car gun ?

[skiJ]

Vaccination would be the cost-effective means to control the disease - Decrease the spread of the disease.

unfortunately, with 12% to 23% ( or whatever ) of the population refusing to participate to control the disease...


it is my understanding, the key to the antivirals ( and apparently by a different mechanism, also the effectiveness of monoclonal antibodies )
... the key to the antivirals is they need to be administered Before the virus is replicating in an infected person -

someone who waits until they have "severe covid" will not benefit from treatment with the antivirals -

with clinical disease, it is the same supportive care currently used -

even with my Very limited understanding of the Delta variant, the only understanding I have for not vaccinating is arrogance.

( a matter of Faith ? ( I'm) Sorry, no.
God / karma / divinity / higher power / Nature ( whatever it is to (Them) )

... God helps those who ( take care of themselves )

see DougW's chart this morning --


To SJG's comment,
the effectiveness of antivirals IS with early administration -
they may Reduce disease, they do NOT treat 'severe covid'.

Please,
get vaccinated.

Thank you.


skiJ

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Not a chance. 100% one of those far out ultra-rural survivalist guys we see up here making his 2x a year journey into town for more ammo or whatever.

Um, and you know this isn’t supposed to be a dig, he looked like if I was a little older, had your beard, wearing vietnam-style old school camo. Like a cross between you, me, and a bus station schizo.

My driving mask at work makes me look like a Juarez sicario. He was really eying me up.

Edit:

I was really quite pleased to be driving away, for sure.

Your bandanna looks like it has an alien dog on it. Nice suspenders


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[SumJongGuy]

So what is the point of a car gun ?

What's the point of road rage without one?

[old goat]

Not a chance. 100% one of those far out ultra-rural survivalist guys we see up here making his 2x a year journey into town for more ammo or whatever.

Um, and you know this isn’t supposed to be a dig, he looked like if I was a little older, had your beard, wearing vietnam-style old school camo. Like a cross between you, me, and a bus station schizo.

My driving mask at work makes me look like a Juarez sicario. He was really eying me up.

Edit:

I was really quite pleased to be driving away, for sure.

WTF. You weren't being sarcastic? That really happened? My home state for the win. (Although one could argue that Detroit and the UP aren't really the same state.)

[ill-advised strategy]

WTF. You weren't being sarcastic? That really happened? My home state for the win. (Although one could argue that Detroit and the UP aren't really the same state.)

No, that happened about 22 hours ago.

And the point for this thread is just, like, how are we going to get these people to do fucking anything?

[SumJongGuy]

What’s going on in ND? Underreporting? Everyone evacuating the state? They dumping bodies in MT? Seems strange.

FL blazing its own path is a sobering thought.

Maybe they let Rudi play..

Sorry. thought I was in the football thread..

[skiJ]

" how are we going to get these people to do ...anything ? "


i-as -

I wished I share jono's optimism - but I don't --

'carrots' do not seem to be working -

'mandates' . . .

I think we could look at mandates differently - -

many perceive this to be about personal protection, about personal choice ( as If vaccination was somehow a threat to 'their freedom ' - it not.

covid is the threat to their freedom.


so. I will re-market the 'mandate' -

don't want to vaccinate ? one cannot be 'essential' -
Businesses ( and the Government ) are seeing three percent of people lose their employment to assert their right to refuse vaccination - -

insurance surcharges are a good start - but many don't have insurance --

could they be denied medical care if they are not vaccinated ? there are trends in that direction -
providers refusing to accept Unvaccinated ;
referral centers refusing to accept referrals with covid --

venues requiring documentation of a Negative test within 72 hours or Vaccination ;
similarly for travel.

it's tough - I believe there is a lot of fatigue ; I believe a lot of people will get out of medical care careers in the next three to five years ( MUnicorn has commented to this. He will stay. those working toward Retirement will stay. but I bet a third of the people with less than ten years, will do other things ( twenty percent with less than fifteen years will do other things ) )

I have a friend who has recently written that he does not care what those around him do - he believes the vaccine protects him from "severe covid" and he is going to live his life - ;
he travels for Work and he travels on business.

seeing the Sports venues Full with tens of thousands of people, I believe many ( most? ) people in this country ( USofA ) are over this -

700,000 dead, in America -
I am lucky that I can live in relative isolation...

I will continue to promote Vaccination.


my friends with covid this week... (?) I hope they survive !

our friendship will not be the same, and I have known them for forty years
( they are life-long friends ( and I have seen several forty year relationships fail in the last five years.

it is one of the prices we have paid since 2016. ) )


let's go skiing !

( we Cannot get them to do anything, i-as, they have to Choose. )


skiJ

postscript -

ND is kind of like the U.p. - except it's even more isolated -

except for Grand Forks and maybe Williston (depending on what is going on in the oil sands fields),
If you get off the I-94 corridor, everyone in ND is pretty isolated in communities that are Not large
( I don't think of /// ND has 780,000 people - 20%, 180,000 in Cass county / Fargo metro. ( and ND is a Big state )

[ill-advised strategy]

What’s going on in ND? Underreporting? Everyone evacuating the state? They dumping bodies in MT? Seems strange.

FL blazing its own path is a sobering thought.

I don’t know, but didn’t they have it really bad last summer or fall? Maybe lots of vulnerable people already died and the remaining survivors are doing well with their antibodies (?)

[SumJongGuy]

They think they'd rather die than admit those libs were right about masks and vaccines.... until they really are about to die.. Then it's too late..

[jono]

No, that happened about 22 hours ago.

And the point for this thread is just, like, how are we going to get these people to do fucking anything?

I've got no answers, but that is absolutely the question. I sat through a recent "meeting" where almost no one spoke except management and about a half dozen antivaxers. Who were butthurt like the recently departed:

"We're not anti-vaxers because this (sic) isn't a vaccine!"

"But I have family history with vaccines"

"I don't like being told what to do with my own body"

"I'm not the enemy of this team, I just think it's changed and I don't like it and I'm feeling really objectionable about everything now"

"I already had it and I didn't know it, but I have proof now! Can't I get an exception?"

"Will the company help us find tests?"

"Do I need a test if I don't come in that week? You'll let me work from home exclusively now, right?"

"I have it on good authority that the executive order hasn't even been signed yet, so what are you going to do if it still isn't signed by December?"

"I hear there are all these court cases pending and I'm sure it's going to be overturned anyway. What's the company going to do then?"

FML. I think all but maybe two of these fuckwits are trusted with decisions involving objective reality. I hope the company survives this.

@SkiJ: I'm not optimistic. I'm very pessimistic. I think mandates are required, but ultimatums work better when the target's options are more limited and they are more isolated. Jump the gun and they won't work well enough to get us there, and I think that's where we are in many chunks of the country. DC? Seattle? SF? Sure. Mandate all you want. If half the workers are still successfully sticking their heads in the sand, punching them in the balls isn't going to bring them around.

[PB]

Trank dart, followed by vax dart.
easy peasy.

[old goat]

What’s going on in ND? Underreporting? Everyone evacuating the state? They dumping bodies in MT? Seems strange.

FL blazing its own path is a sobering thought.

I wonder if they are shipping a lot of cases. They have one of the worst case rates, hospitalization middling, deaths on the lower side. One of the few states where cases are still rising.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...vid-cases.html

Meanwhile it seems to me that contrary to predictions the mandates seem to be working. And as far as mandatory vaccination to work and play pushing people over to the dark side--those folks are already there.

[Ted Striker]

{coworkers]

"We're not anti-vaxers because this (sic) isn't a vaccine!"

"But I have family history with vaccines"

"I don't like being told what to do with my own body"

I'm seeing/hearing those three.

And the variations: "it's not a vaccine, it's a death sentence" and "my body, my choice" <- that one without even a hint of irony.

Sandy Hook was the moment this country decided that six year old's lives were worth less than muh freedumbs. I'm afraid that's the way this is going to play out too.

[skiJ]

jono -

I may have presented some of that ^^^ poorly --

rather than 'mandate the vaccine' , If people cannot get medical care without vaccination, I think Some ( maybe enough people ) will choose vaccination -

( maybe I have mis-attributed a comment to you - about 95% ultimately participating ( 9-28-2021. post# 13349 ) ) -

I understand the idea the mRNA vaccines are not traditional, historic vaccines - guess what (?), technology evolves - and when the product provides protection against a deadly disease, I will include it in a working definition of vaccine.

still unhappy ? J&J is a viral vector product.

one of my contemporaries says, 'how can they expect medical care, while refusing the technology to prevent the disease ! (?) ! ;
Vaccination is a responsibility to society !

If you don't want to be vaccinated, do not seek treatment - sit home; ride it out. '


I Like that mandate.


the one I will continue to struggle with is the idea that vaccination for this disease is only a matter of personal immunity and personal choice. and
that's why I believe refusing to be vaccinated is a matter of arrogance ( and determined ignorance )

( my friend is an intelligent man, and he is a smart man. ( I cannot say more again ( please see my earlier comments ))
he knows vaccination would decrease the risk to his Family. )


Thanks again to the thoughtful professionals who have contributed to this thread
( I have named several earlier - You know who you are )

respectfully. tj

[old goat]

Don't get the vaccine. It was developed overnight.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/scien...-mrna-vaccine/
These two scientists spent seven years figuring how to modify one of the bases in mRNA to greatly improve immunogenicity and reduce the bodies inflammatory reaction to it. They succeeded in 2005. They spent years trying to publish and get funding. Their lab spent 3 years figuring out how to deliver it, eventually settling on lipid nanoparticles. They developed a Zika vaccine that worked in monkeys but when the epidemic mostly died out they never trialed it in humans. Their technology is the basis of the Biontech and Moderna vaccines. Their modification is different than the modification of the spike protein produced by the mRNA that stabilizes it. Both are critical.

[AK47bp]

Trank dart, followed by vax dart.
easy peasy.

I gotta ask. Why waste the trank dart?


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