To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Skidog]

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/18/10379...h-care-workers

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[The AD]

I've asked before and it went unanswered. Say you need emergency care, like a real emergency, head to hospital and nurse is non vax? She/he is the only one that can help. No other choices. You dying on that mountain? My guess is big fat no.

Correct. And this is why we shouldn't need to even ask the question. We won't if there's a mandate.

[CarlMega]

I've asked before and it went unanswered. Say you need emergency care, like a real emergency, head to hospital and nurse is non vax? She/he is the only one that can help. No other choices. You dying on that mountain? My guess is big fat no.

Hypotheticals like this are just argumentative and don't really serve a purpose in rational discussion.

But when it comes to emergency help, there are only two considerations: someone is in need & someone is in a position to help. That's it.

Special considerations aside, either you meet the standard of professional practice or not. Complying with public health orders, established practices and policy of your institution are the minimum. We'd never knowingly tolerate some food distributer or similar to just make up their own public health compliances on the fly. And from where I sit, health care has a higher standard and expectation of competency than the hair net and rat feces crowd.

[mcski]

They are there, and they are still there. How do you know?

I've asked before and it went unanswered. Say you need emergency care, like a real emergency, head to hospital and nurse is non vax? She/he is the only one that can help. No other choices. You dying on that mountain? My guess is big fat no.

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You’ve long established yourself as a moron in this thread, but even you should know that strawman argument doesn’t mean shit and is irrelevant. The bottom line is no one unvaccinated should be working on a hospital floor. Fuck every last one of those idiots

[Skidog]

You’ve long established yourself as a moron in this thread, but even you should know that strawman argument doesn’t mean shit and is irrelevant. The bottom line is no one unvaccinated should be working on a hospital floor. Fuck every last one of those idiots

You can say that, but hopefully it doesn't effect your local hospital staff. Did you read the NPR article? I mean hospital administrators all over the place are dealing with it. Sure, I agree they should abide by the "rules"..they don't they can quit.

What will that do to healthcare? We don't know, but I wouldn't just blow it off as a nothing burger.

ETA: this isn't an argument for anti vax. It's just something we will have to deal with.

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[SumJongGuy]

The main hospital system here is at 90% employees fully vaxxed. The rest have til the end of next month to comply or will be fired.

[skaredshtles]

The main hospital system here is at 90% employees fully vaxxed. The rest have til the end of next month to comply or will be fired.

...

[Skidog]

The main hospital system here is at 90% employees fully vaxxed. The rest have til the end of next month to comply or will be fired.

That's awesome. Honest question, and totally hypothetical, but I'm sure that hospital admin had considered. How would the hospital do with 10% less staff? Would there be big impact? Is there local replacements ready? Again totally honest questions.

This is obviously different region to region, some areas will be hit harder, some less.

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[MultiVerse]

A vocal contingent also spent a lot of time arguing even if we reach 100% vaccination it won't make any difference because of the variants. It is clear however that the rapid growth of the Delta variant in the U.S.A., from near-zero prevalence to near-dominance of the SARS-CoV-2 genome in the three months between 15 May 2021 and 15 August 2021, has had a negligible impact on vaccine efficacy.

Instead, the “wave” behavior of vaccine effectiveness had more to do with a transfer of demographic risk factors such as age, comorbidities, and other clinical vulnerabilities, between vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, as vaccination rates increased in various demographic cohorts.

In other words vaccine demographics, not variants, is what matters. All three US vaccines remained relatively stable and quite well-performing, despite the dramatic concurrent rise of the Delta variant:

https://web.cels.anl.gov/~cgraziani/vax_vs_delta.pdf

[MultiVerse]

I would guess Marin County has passed herd immunity levels. If you get your R below 1, local cases will die out. However, travel and commutes keep bringing in new cases. If your R is close to 1, say 0.9 or 0.95, those introduced cases propagate for a long time before dying out. Meanwhile, travel and commute keep bringing more cases. My feeling is many highly vaxxed areas are already suffering this phenomenon (bay area, NYC, King County, etc).

Taking Iceland as an example, their cases were falling this summer. They opened travel and shitloads of (diseased) Americans came. Cases spiked. School started in America halting most of the travel. Since travel dropped, Iceland cases are falling dramatically.

Marin County's cases would go to zero if they shut the borders. Alternately, once those living in Marin County's commute and travel networks get their shit together, cases will also fall to zero.

Yeah, Iceland is a good example. And I don't think we should be too surprised to see cases spike even in highly vaccinated places like Marin not only for the reasons you mention but also because:

— There are still large unvaccinated populations in the age<12 cohort
— Waning antibodies from vaccines / prior infections
— As a result schools or large gatherings can still drive case outbreaks

Although as with Iceland when cases rise in areas where vax rates are high, severe disease and death are much much lower.

[Adolf Allerbush]

The last thing we need is dipshits in the medical field. Might be a theoretical short term pain, but I don’t want these fucking morons anywhere near a hospital floor for any reason whatsoever ever. Fuck em, they don’t belong there.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Honestly, if somebody has a allied medical education and can’t figure this vaccine situation out, I think it might be better in the long run if they step out of the field. It’s a short term problem but, just…these are people who shouldn’t have been passed in the first place

I posted this probably a hundred pages ago. I don’t want to work with healthcare workers that won’t get vaccinated. It’s our ethical obligation.

Fortunately most of the resistant coworkers I’m around are “caving” or “buckling”, their words. I guess their stance wasn’t that strong after all. There are a few holdouts but I don’t care if they go to be truthful.

[SorryBro]

I posted this probably a hundred pages ago. I don’t want to work with healthcare workers that won’t get vaccinated. It’s our ethical obligation.

Fortunately most of the resistant coworkers I’m around are “caving” or “buckling”, their words. I guess their stance wasn’t that strong after all. There are a few holdouts but I don’t care if they go to be truthful.

^^^ and this was what I thought would happen. You are 100% correct you don't need to work with those who won't get vaccinated. The 10 people (made up number) you lose will hurt in the short term, but hopefully create a stronger work environment in the long term.

Keep your head up. Thanks for not quitting due to these knuckleheads.

[mcphee]

Guys. GuysguysguysGUYS. Skidog is pro vax. He got both jabs. He’s just sayiiiiing that everyone should continue to question the vaccine. And that healthcare workers who should be putting forth an example for preventative public health measures should ALSOOOO question the vaccine.


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[Skidog]

Guys. GuysguysguysGUYS. Skidog is pro vax. He got both jabs. He’s just sayiiiiing that everyone should continue to question the vaccine. And that healthcare workers who should be putting forth an example for preventative public health measures should ALSOOOO question the vaccine.


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You're an idiot. Without question.

The fact that you'll simply ignore what hospital admins are actually worried about this is amazing. But yeah NPR are just spreading "misinformation". I'm sure the 4 guys here who posted about their workplaces are a great indication of the greater healthcare system.

I bring real points..I'm called a moron. It appears the "Borg" has spoken.

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[mcski]

The only real point you bring is on your head.

[The AD]

I bring real points..

I agree it's a real point and then I think about it and quickly realize that these people are making a stand that absolutely doesn't make sense, and can't help but go back to the "fuck 'em" conclusion.

[mcphee]

*Thoughts, opinions, stances all refuted by a majority using facts, data, and real life experience.*

Guys why aren’t you agreeing with me? That’s hive mind.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

They are there, and they are still there. How do you know?

I've asked before and it went unanswered. Say you need emergency care, like a real emergency, head to hospital and nurse is non vax? She/he is the only one that can help. No other choices. You dying on that mountain? My guess is big fat no.

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There will be no non vax people working in direct patient care. That’s what they’re beginning to realize. In WA, if you somehow get an exemption you can reassign to something not involving patient care or take an unpaid leave of absence until the pandemic is under control. Do you see the spot they’re in? The ones that I know don’t have any strong opinion about vaccination, this is purely a temper tantrum because they don’t want to be told what to do by what they perceive as an illegitimate and/or leftist regime. They, physicians and nurses can’t afford not to work


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[Benny Profane]

Wow, check it out. Seems the vax is better than Viagra.

[CarlMega]

There's tragedy here; completely unnecessary and a family w/ special needs is shattered. I recognize that I'm being crass but consider this level of negligent advice from a HC worker; I think we can manage without them in the field.

Idaho nurse who refused COVID vaccine dies: brother

An Idaho nurse who refused the COVID-19 vaccine, and encouraged her family to do the same, even after her COVID-infected mother went into a coma, has died, according to her brother.

Daryl Rise told CNN that his older sister Natalie Rise was a victim of disinformation.

“She was telling me not to get vaccinated,” Daryl Rise said. “I think it was from misinformation, I think it was falling into negative social media and bloggers, YouTubers.”

Idaho currently lags behind the rest of the United States, with only 40.8% of the population fully vaccinated compared to the nation’s still-meager 54.7%.

The COVID crisis came at the Rise family swiftly.

Daryl Rise told KLXY his mom was hospitalized with COVID pneumonia on Aug. 10 after a week of illness and trouble breathing. She was intubated and put into a medically induced coma. Days later, his sister became ill and was hospitalized “right down the hall” from her mother.

Even while in the hospital and receiving oxygen, the former nurse told her younger brother not to get vaccinated.

Natalie Rise, a 46-year-old mother of 10-year-old twins with special needs, died Aug. 22 in Coeur d’Alene, which is still seeing a surge in cases as the entire state has become overwhelmed. A day later, the Food and Drug Administration gave its full approval to Pfizer vaccine, the same day Daryl Rise said he got his first jab.

“I got it out of fear,” he said.

The Idaho man said his mother, who is recovering and out of her coma, has not decided on whether to get vaccinated.

Whether or not his mother follows his lead, Rise is encouraging others to get vaccinated already.

“We’re hearing from all these doctors and professionals who have all this education and they’re basically begging us to get the vaccination. The people that are telling us not to, they’re not as educated as these doctors, and they’re following social media. It doesn’t matter if we’re a donkey or an elephant. It is a personal choice, but the numbers don’t lie,” Daryl Rise told KLXY.

[jono]

Wow, check it out. Seems the vax is better than Viagra.

That's better than Viagra? Vibes

[::: :::]

The graph is a penis

[TBS]

^^^Nothing gets by you!

[summit]

There's tragedy here; completely unnecessary and a family w/ special needs is shattered. I recognize that I'm being crass but consider this level of negligent advice from a HC worker; I think we can manage without them in the field.

Idaho nurse who refused COVID vaccine dies: brother

My friend is an ER nurse in Coeur d’Alene. I called her when I read they were using conference rooms for ICU overflow to see if it really was so. It was so. Sitrep: shits fucked.