To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[muted reborn]

I wont clutter this topic up any more,

But what does “2) No personal attacks” mean?

There was no content in his post other than personal attack. In multiple posts.




Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

It's been stated over and over - personal attacks are fine. Personal attacks that include violence are not OK.

[::: :::]

I dont get it.

montucky too dumb & too self-centered to realize that everyone is affected by the unvaccinated

-hospitals challenged to meet demand
-health care professionals stressed out & frustrated & getting ill because of the unvaccinated
-the unvaxxed continue to feed the virus by being available to carry it & allow it to propagate variants
-kids can't go to school safely, which fucks up parents ability to work, including teachers
-parents who can't work add to the decrease in production across industries, which drags the economy
-old people who are vaxxed are still at risk given any number of comorbidities
-people who legitimately can't get vaxxed are still in danger from the percolation of the virus in the community
-long covid is a significant issue if it's you who gets it; or say your mom; or your friend; or your grocer; or your dentist

don't get him wrong, tho -- he cares, and is just joking when he posts stupid stuff that promotes poor decisions regarding public health

[Bunion 2020]

Thanks Mods. Fuck those Rockers.

[wooley12]

Joking is hard to swallow for some here while people are dying. True gallows humor is ok.

[::: :::]

Joking is hard to swallow for some here while people are dying. True gallows humor is ok.

for clarity, he's a moron
his "just joking" is utter bullshit

[Core Shot]

Where is the AIDS you promised me

We don’t have full blown aids. All sold out.

All that’s left are hemorrAids

[wooley12]

for clarity, he's a moron
his "just joking" is utter bullshit

I knew that.

[Core Shot]

Who the fuck knows if this hearsay is true.
I hope it is.

===============


The director of global infectious diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital is predicting what was unthinkable less than a month ago: The end of the pandemic.

Dr. Edward Ryan made stunning and encouraging comments on the Omicron variant that give hope for a return to normalcy. Among these: Omicron will make boosters unnecessary. The covid virus will join the ranks of the “common cold.” And the latest wave will enter “clean up mode” shortly.

“We are fighting the last war with COVID and should be pivoting back to normal life,” the summary of Dr. Ryan’s comments states. “Spring/Summer will be really nice!”

Dr. Ryan is professor of medicine at the Harvard Medical School and professor of immunology and infectious diseases at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. He also directs the Tropical and Geographic Medicine Center
and Travelers’ Advice and Immunization Center, which is supported by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

His comments come from an undated summary (see full text below) of a conference call with Ryan that was shared last weekend among doctors and provided to me.

In response to a request for comment, Massachusetts General Hospital issued a statement acknowledging that Dr. Ryan’s remarks had been shared “from an individual’s personal notes.”

“These notes lack context, details, and nuance,” the statement said, noting they fail to reflect “the role that vaccines play in mitigating severe disease or death,” or to note that at-risk people should “continue to take extra precautions.”

Significantly, the statement did not take issue with the accuracy of the conference call summary, which I had forwarded to both Ryan and media officials. Ryan did not respond to requests for comment.

Assessing the situation in the Boston region, Ryan said that close to 100 percent of cases were Omicron.

“Delta is almost completely gone from New England,” the notes said, meaning, significantly, that a more deadly variant has been displaced by a far milder one.

“This surge will peak [in New England] sometime between 1/10 and 1/21 and then begin a quick downhill journey of two to four weeks,” the summary of the call stated.

Perhaps the most surprising, and potentially controversial, statement from the call notes pertained to Ryan’s take on boosters for Omicron.

“We won’t need a booster for omicron because they wouldn’t be able to develop one before it’s completely gone and we’re all going to get it which will give us the immunity we need to get through it,” the summary states.

The booster statement is particularly startling in view of the near universal mainstream medical support for vaccinations and boosters, including for children as young as five years old.

Ryan allayed fears of rising hospitalizations. “Most of them are secondary admissions,” the summary states, meaning people admitted for something else but who test positive for Omicron.

SARS-CoV-2 will be transformed by Omicron, the comments suggest.

“COVID will join the 4 other coronaviruses we deal with that cause the common cold, upper respiratory infections, RSV, etc.,”

[ex-powderbroker]

Nothing says reputable like a full length copy pasta with misinfo and no source given.

[CarlMega]

^I hope so. Really do.

Maybe the doctor is a bit freewheeling and casual with his prediction tho? You can feel the institutions not wanting to be as bold in that claim and distancing:

In response to a request for comment, Massachusetts General Hospital issued a statement acknowledging that Dr. Ryan’s remarks had been shared “from an individual’s personal notes.”

“These notes lack context, details, and nuance,” the statement said, noting they fail to reflect “the role that vaccines play in mitigating severe disease or death,” or to note that at-risk people should “continue to take extra precautions.”

Which I don't blame them. But let's hope, stay vigilant and track this accordingly.

Here's a site - the article is based on a conversation. I have no idea if this site is reputable: https://trialsitenews.com/120773-2/

[Buster Highmen]

I keep reading the title as -To-Vaginate-or-Not-...

[altasnob]

95% of England has immunity either through infection or vaccination (72% fully vaccinated rate). They are dropping mandatory masks in public and vaccine passport rules, and no longer recommend people work from home. No more masks in secondary schools.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60047438

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...hts/antibodies

[::: :::]

I knew that.

more to clarify that i wasn't endorsing his joke

[Mod Team]

It's been stated over and over - personal attacks are fine. Personal attacks that include violence are not OK.

YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!

[Mofro261]

Remaining question is how much you guys worry about possible autoimmune off effects from epitopes generated by the modified constructs, or things like ADE. I know you guys take this into account, but how prevalent is it?

Exceedingly rare.

First off, while any amino acid sequence conformation may be an immune epitope, it's important to note that over-whelmingly most 8-15 mer amino acid sequences are not. Secondly, my understanding on autoimmune epitope generation as it relates to antibodies, is that it relies much more on functional molecular mimicry of the 3D shape of the region being recognized, than linear sequence conservation. Third, the deviations made to stabilize the prefusion Spike, namely alteration of the putative furin cleavage site at the boundery of S1/S2 and 2 rigid Proline-Proline mutations in the S2 heptad regions that prevent helix re-arrangment, were already introduced in V1 vaccines and now with ~1Billion+ doses given remain unlinked as hot spots for either antibody binding and induction of autoimmunity from the vaccines. All of the other changes in Omicron vaccine constructs mirror the actual changes in the Omicron virus and have been vetted by nature.

My limited overlap with ADE is primarily with Dengue fever. Dengue viruses (4 serotypes) enter into human cells through a clatharin mediated endosomal pathway. Normally this involves a re-arrangement of the 90 Envelope dimers into 60 trimers on the viral surface, with a region called the "fusion loop" of each forming a triad that is inserted into the cell lipid bilayer to initiate endocytosis. This fusion loop is nearly 100% conserved across all flaviviruses (zika, dengue, JEV, WNV, YFV), and is a hot spot for antibodies to bind. However upon secondary infection with another Dengue strain, instead of blocking entry, these antibodies actually enhance endosomal uptake of the virus through antibody-FC receptor mediated interactions, and the viruses are then able to escape from endosomal/lysosomal degradation pathways back into the cytoplasm and therefore enhance disease by increasing the #'s of viruses infecting cells.

Corona viruses on the other hand, only sparingly use endosomal pathways in vivo, and instead rely on Ace2 cell surface receptor-mediated uptake as their main pathway directly inside the cell to the cytoplasm. Because of this, these infections do not/have much less chance at generating ADE through antibody-FC uptake. It's also why Hydroxychloroquine, an endosomal inhibitor, is of little to no value for treatment. There most certainly are other mechanisms for ADE generation, but none have so far been identified for coronaviruses.

As an aside, in the early-mid 2000's I was involved with a protein-subunit vaccine approach for a T cell vaccine against Leishmaniaisis, a eukaryotic parasitic disease transmitted by biting sand flies around the world in the tropics, that made it into Phase1 trials in the US and phase 2/2B trials in Brazil. One of the proteins in the vax (identified by both T cell epitopes and serology in Leish patients) was 60% identical to it's human protein counterpart! And so we were quite keen to look for cross-reactivity that might be a sign of autoimmunity. Using both PBMC's and sera from phase I and II vaccinated individuals before and 4 weeks post 3rd shot to look at T cell and antibody responses, assays with the Leish protein gave robust responses post vax while there were virtually none to the human counterpart protein despite having plenty of regions containing amino stretches with complete identity across the 2 proteins. It was pretty striking to me really, how the major epitopes clustered in the regions of difference and were absent in the regions of high similarity.

[Core Shot]

I keep reading the title as -To-Vaginate-or-Not-...

Vaginate. Always.
Why is there any debate.

YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!

Please consult the rage call generator. Unfortunately it’s broken.

BUT FUCK YOU IN THE ASS WITH A RUSTY KÄSTLE COVERED IN COVID AND SANTORUM FOLLOWED BY A VIKING DUMPSTER FIRE FUNERAL YOU CUM GUZZLING TEXAS SKIER

Ahem. Have a nice day.

[bennymac]

Exceedingly rare.

First off, while any amino acid sequence conformation may be an immune epitope, it's important to note that over-whelmingly most 8-15 mer amino acid sequences are not. Secondly, my understanding on autoimmune epitope generation as it relates to antibodies, is that it relies much more on functional molecular mimicry of the 3D shape of the region being recognized, than linear sequence conservation. Third, the deviations made to stabilize the prefusion Spike, namely alteration of the putative furin cleavage site at the boundery of S1/S2 and 2 rigid Proline-Proline mutations in the S2 heptad regions that prevent helix re-arrangment, were already introduced in V1 vaccines and now with ~1Billion+ doses given remain unlinked as hot spots for either antibody binding and induction of autoimmunity from the vaccines. All of the other changes in Omicron vaccine constructs mirror the actual changes in the Omicron virus and have been vetted by nature.

My limited overlap with ADE is primarily with Dengue fever. Dengue viruses (4 serotypes) enter into human cells through a clatharin mediated endosomal pathway. Normally this involves a re-arrangement of the 90 Envelope dimers into 60 trimers on the viral surface, with a region called the "fusion loop" of each forming a triad that is inserted into the cell lipid bilayer to initiate endocytosis. This fusion loop is nearly 100% conserved across all flaviviruses (zika, dengue, JEV, WNV, YFV), and is a hot spot for antibodies to bind. However upon secondary infection with another Dengue strain, instead of blocking entry, these antibodies actually enhance endosomal uptake of the virus through antibody-FC receptor mediated interactions, and the viruses are then able to escape from endosomal/lysosomal degradation pathways back into the cytoplasm and therefore enhance disease by increasing the #'s of viruses infecting cells.

Corona viruses on the other hand, only sparingly use endosomal pathways in vivo, and instead rely on Ace2 cell surface receptor-mediated uptake as their main pathway directly inside the cell to the cytoplasm. Because of this, these infections do not/have much less chance at generating ADE through antibody-FC uptake. It's also why Hydroxychloroquine, an endosomal inhibitor, is of little to no value for treatment. There most certainly are other mechanisms for ADE generation, but none have so far been identified for coronaviruses.

As an aside, in the early-mid 2000's I was involved with a protein-subunit vaccine approach for a T cell vaccine against Leishmaniaisis, a eukaryotic parasitic disease transmitted by biting sand flies around the world in the tropics, that made it into Phase1 trials in the US and phase 2/2B trials in Brazil. One of the proteins in the vax (identified by both T cell epitopes and serology in Leish patients) was 60% identical to it's human protein counterpart! And so we were quite keen to look for cross-reactivity that might be a sign of autoimmunity. Using both PBMC's and sera from phase I and II vaccinated individuals before and 4 weeks post 3rd shot to look at T cell and antibody responses, assays with the Leish protein gave robust responses post vax while there were virtually none to the human counterpart protein despite having plenty of regions containing amino stretches with complete identity across the 2 proteins. It was pretty striking to me really, how the major epitopes clustered in the regions of difference and were absent in the regions of high similarity.

Oh yeah? Where’d you hear all that…CNN?

[XXX-er]

y'know often you can read something scientific and get a general Idea

but i didn't get one bit of that ^^

[mcphee]

Don't shoot the messanger. You do know that the Pharma companies are the biggest sponsors of TV, print, and our Political woes?

In your case, the messenger should be shot(**METAPHORICALLY, this is a METAPHOR**)

[Core Shot]

y'know often you can read something scientific and get a general Idea

but i didn't get one bit of that ^^

Something about Leishmaniasis

I think that’s what happened after Gerry Garcia died.

It’s related to Weirding.

[SumJongGuy]

Something about Leishmaniasis

I think that’s what happened after Gerry Garcia died.

It’s related to Weirding.

Doxed!

[XXX-er]

well my point would be that doing my own research is impossible

[ex-powderbroker]

anti-vax types are burning their carhartt since the company has decided to continue to require vaccination of its workers.

[SumJongGuy]

High school contact tracers called today. Kid had close contact to a student who tested positive in extracurricular activity Tuesday. They're not even recommending isolation. Everyone was masked so it's business as usual unless symptoms arise. Recommend testing 5 days after the close contact, but not required. I guess they're done trying. Keep your masks on and get back to work LOL!

[CarlMega]

When you lose the heavily tattoo'd finger crowd....