To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[2FUNKY]

Lol. Madlibs troll from a mild aged desk jockey, who wouldn’t know stoke if it hit is dumb ass. Wear your political dumbfuckery as a badge of honor, kill more like you, I don’t care.

Just quoting this as you should be gone for making such a statement as others have been removed for less. I’m not a fan of banning people, for you an exception could be made and would be valid as you contribute nothing to this place. For the record I don’t ride a desk. My political leanings I have never discussed here, you may be surprised by them.
I’m a little bitter as this holier than thou attitude of others that are vaxxed against those who chose or for others reasons cannot has me pretty disgusted. I’ve lost a few family friends who had been exposed to this virus yet were vaxxed and took major precautions by people like you dumbfree who think that they cannot transmit this virus. I choose not to live in fear of my fellow man. I also choose not to ostracize them for their choice as I am healthy and protected nor will I ask someone if they are vaxxed and not enjoy their company, esp doing an outdoor activity if they are not.
Live in fear in your mom’s basement dumbfree. You’re just some feckless douche, proven over and over on this forum.

[2FUNKY]

You understand that he has a significantly lower chance of taking this virus to them if he is vaxxed right? And if he doesn’t interact with non-vaxxed people that further reduces his chances of getting it? And you understand how statistics work?

Significantly, no, slightly less, yes. I’ve studied plenty of papers on transmission of vaxxed vs non. The numbers are not that drastic as some would wish they were.
Are they like magnets? Nobody knows how those things work.
I’m out, gotta get some sleep as it’s dumping here and I’m going skiing for the next three days.
Stay afraid my friends.

[chaka]

as stated a billion times in this thread. this isn't a black/white, binary situation. Its about probability, risk.
Hypothetical situation
you get wasted and make a 'choice' to drive drunk.
you manage to get home safe without killing yourself or anyone else.

If your conclusion the next day while nursing a brutal hangover is: "holy shit, did I get lucky. I can't believe I took that chance and got away with it" you might understand probability and risk
If your conclusion is: "I didn't die, so drunk driving must be safe! As safe as driving sober!" well, then...

[Buster Highmen]

Significantly, no, slightly less, yes. I’ve studied plenty of papers on transmission of vaxxed vs non. The numbers are not that drastic as some would wish they were.

Reference? Link?

Are they like magnets? Nobody knows how those things work.

Summary
Unvaccinated 12-34 year-olds in Washington are
• 5 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds.
• 16 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 yearolds.
Unvaccinated 35-64 year-olds are
• 5 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds.
• 17 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 yearolds.
Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are
• 6 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 10 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ yearolds.
• 11 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Doc...Vaccinated.pdf

I’m out, gotta get some sleep as it’s dumping here and I’m going skiing for the next three days.
Stay afraid my friends.

Again, I'm not afraid if I carry shovel probe and tranceiver, nor am I afraid if I avoid unvaxxed, mask up and distance. It's the utility of action.

[Danno]

as stated a billion times in this thread. this isn't a black/white, binary situation. Its about probability, risk.
Hypothetical situation
you get wasted and make a 'choice' to drive drunk.
you manage to get home safe without killing yourself or anyone else.

If your conclusion the next day while nursing a brutal hangover is: "holy shit, did I get lucky. I can't believe I took that chance and got away with it" you might understand probability and risk
If your conclusion is: "I didn't die, so drunk driving must be safe! As safe as driving sober!" well, then...

Drunk driving is a good analogy, but not in the way you say. It's not a "holy shit I got lucky" thing, the reason drunk driving is so insidious is because most of the time it all works out fine, so it gets normalized. It's not lucky to get home safe, that happens a huge percentage of the time. You can easily drive drink 50 times without incident. Just like you can easily engage in "risky" covid behavior tons of times without incident. Which is why people do it, because it gets reinforced to them that it's not that risky. Until that 51st time.

It's like skiing avalanche terrain with a deep persistent layer, you can do it over and over and all is fine. Which may lead you to think it's safe. But when it goes, it goes big. That's what drunk driving is, that's what the risk of covid is.

[Buster Highmen]

I don't understand how we can still be gazing across these gulfs of misunderstanding.
Where are these studies, data and arguments that show that being vaccinated is no safer than being unvaccinated with regard to getting covid?

I mean I get it about the prancy assholes who take every opportunity to look down their noses at everyone else.

[wooley12]

Bullshit. It's not up thread, it's up your ass.

And if you live in American Redoubt, I'm suspicious.

[bennymac]

It's upthread somewhere, not going to rehash. I doubt you care anyway.
Information exists in between the MSM vaccine marketing campaign pumped 24/7/365.25 and the right wing conspiracy crap pumped almost as hard.
Good luck.

That middle ground is telling you that vaccines don’t make sense in the middle of a pandemic?

[AK47bp]

Drunk driving is a good analogy, but not in the way you say. It's not a "holy shit I got lucky" thing, the reason drunk driving is so insidious is because most of the time it all works out fine, so it gets normalized. It's not lucky to get home safe, that happens a huge percentage of the time. You can easily drive drink 50 times without incident. Just like you can easily engage in "risky" covid behavior tons of times without incident. Which is why people do it, because it gets reinforced to them that it's not that risky. Until that 51st time.

It's like skiing avalanche terrain with a deep persistent layer, you can do it over and over and all is fine. Which may lead you to think it's safe. But when it goes, it goes big. That's what drunk driving is, that's what the risk of covid is.

“I like to think of Covid like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!”


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Meathelmet]

So let me get this straight. In Finland the prime minister gets to go clubbing? The prime minister? Like the head of state? The person in charge of the country? Gets to go clubbing? I can't really wrap my head around that.

Yup. Very low "overhead" in Finnish culture. One can regularly rub elbows with "celebs" and "important people" when shopping trout at the market...or rub bums in the public saunas.

And she can leave her "work" phone at home? What if the Russians invade?

She has several phones. The phone she left at the office was the official State<->State phone meant for international communication etc.
She still had 2 other phones, including one for intra government communication.

And ruskies are busy invading Ukraina atm, so no worries.
Maybe.

[skiJ]

What is with this place and it’s irrational fear of unvaxxed people? You know you can get covid from peeps who are vaxxed as well right? So fucking bizarre. Thought has never even crossed my mind to ask if someone is vaxxed let alone be super afraid of them and not be around them if they are not. You guys realize you’re mentally unstable and your actions are far from normal? That was rhetorical.

yes, some understand that vaccinated people can carry and transmit the covid virus ;
that is part of Why you will see some of us, while vaccinated and boostered, wearing masks indoors.

you reject the claim that the Unvaccinated are four times more likely to transmit the virus, claiming to have studied 'lots of papers on transmission' that you claim show transmission is 'slightly higher' in Unvaccinated than vaccinated, but offer no references ;

you claim those who do not share your beliefs are 'afraid' - like that is a bad thing, in a pandemic that has killed millions of people worldwide.

you claim you have lost family friends who though vaccinated, developed Breakthrough cases of covid -
you do not clarify what you mean by "lost" .

"fear", "ostracize" - ... emotional words to try to distract from the thoughtful decision making process...


I am glad you are "protected", and that for you, that is the end.
'mentally unstable' , 'far from normal' (?) - again, words, emotional words to distract from a thoughtful discussion about steps we - as a society and a species - ... steps we should be taking to limit this disease;

I appreciate the efforts of those who through the pages of this thread continue to promote efforts to limit the pandemic and limit the spread of this potentially deadly virus ;

to me, this is no longer a matter of personal choice, it is a matter of Responsibility.
those that disagree - who believe their individual freedom of choice is more important than their Responsibility to others, ,,, yes, I understand each has the right to their opinion and their choice(s), and we are the poorer for it.

please
get vaccinated - and maintain your immunity through the booster(s)...

Thank you. skiJ

[LongShortLong]

Wtf does my current location in this place and time have anything to do with anything? That’s such a bizarre “own”. Why are you so afraid of an unvaxxed person?

Last time I was in the third world (rural Nevada) the front desk warned me of an ongoing Whooping cough outbreak in town. Apparently the vaccinated have enough resistance it never appears in their communities, but they can still catch it from sick people. They were letting me know, so I could alert my doctor if any symptoms of this otherwise rare disease appeared in the following weeks. Measles is like that too. Covid's the same. TMYK

Help us out and update your vaccinations. Kids and animals, too.

[riser4]

[Kinnikinnick]

Significantly, no, slightly less, yes. I’ve studied plenty of papers on transmission of vaxxed vs non. The numbers are not that drastic as some would wish they were.
Are they like magnets? Nobody knows how those things work.
I’m out, gotta get some sleep as it’s dumping here and I’m going skiing for the next three days.
Stay afraid my friends.

LOL!!


Bullshit.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[ticketchecker]

to me, this is no longer a matter of personal choice, it is a matter of Responsibility.
those that disagree - who believe their individual freedom of choice is more important than their Responsibility to others, ,,, yes, I understand each has the right to their opinion and their choice(s), and we are the poorer for it.

please
get vaccinated - and maintain your immunity through the booster(s)...

so·cial con·tract
/ˈsōSHəl kənˈtrakt,ˈkäntrakt/
noun
an implicit agreement among the members of a society to cooperate for social benefits, for example by sacrificing some individual freedom for state protection. Theories of a social contract became popular in the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries among theorists such as Thomas Hobbes, John Locke, and Jean-Jacques Rousseau, as a means of explaining the origin of government and the obligations of subjects.

[schuss]

There's a gulf of misunderstanding as one group is using facts and statistics to make an informed decision, the other feelings - mostly selfish convenience and fear of the other/things they don't understand. They are not the same, nor do they count for the same.

I still mask up indoors despite being vaccinated (booster is soon) not because of fear or manipulation, but because it gooses the stats in my favor ever so slightly, and even more importantly means I'm less likely to spread to family and friends (not that worried about myself). It's not fear, it's just seatbelt level "this doesn't really bother me and makes me safer, so why not?"

You're tired of the condescension? Then act for the good of the many and just get a vaccination. You don't want to for personal reasons? Fine, but understand the only responsible option at that point is to basically quarantine yourself. Oh, you don't wanna? Cry me a fucking river and deal with the fact you're just being a selfish ninny (I'd say child, but my kids too both shots no problem and don't bitch about masks, so they've got one up on the antivaxxers).

[uglymoney]

81 people in the hospital for Covid here in Moose. 64 unvaccinated. Only one has had the booster.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

[The AD]

Most of us didn't start out being condescending to anti-vaxxers. That came from repeatedly trying to change their position by stating vetted statistics that the anti-vax folks either flat-out said they didn't believe or simply ignored. Sorry, you don't get to make up shit and still expect people to respect you.

[TBS]

Significantly, no, slightly less, yes. I’ve studied plenty of papers on transmission of vaxxed vs non. The numbers are not that drastic as some would wish they were.
Are they like magnets? Nobody knows how those things work.
I’m out, gotta get some sleep as it’s dumping here and I’m going skiing for the next three days.
Stay afraid my friends.

Please link the research papers you reviewed to conclude the unvaxxed were no more likely to infect a vaxxed person as another vaxxed person.

Because everything I’ve read says the unvaxxed are way more contagious than the vaxxed.

I did find a study in The Lancet that found Peak Viral Loads of vaxxed and unvaxxed were similar, but the vaccinated shed the virus faster, with lower overall load over a shorter period of time.

Thanks. I look forward to learning more

[SumJongGuy]

It's long past time to begin rationing ALL healthcare system resources to vaxxed first and unvaxxed (COVID related patients) last for everything. Unvaxxed and being treated for COVID on a vent or other ICU resource and a vaxxed person comes in FOR ANY REASON, car wreck etc, the unvaxxed person gets booted off that resource if there isn't enough to treat everyone in need. Full stop!

That will be what it takes to either convince the deniers to change.. or stop fucking it all up for everyone else when they do get ill..

[Buzzworthy]

Got an idea. Brush off the new jizzmonkey from Idaho and go skiing. Same non sensical bs we’ve all heard with nothing new to add.
There’s a fuck load of snow around the mountains so get at it!

[SumJongGuy]

Got an idea. Brush off the new jizzmonkey from Idaho and go skiing. Same non sensical bs we’ve all heard with nothing new to add.
There’s a fuck load of snow around the mountains so get at it!

I went skiing last weekend and the lodge and lift lines were full of anti maskers. I'm good outside fully vaxed but sucks inside especially for the 20% of workers in there who were covering up.. Fuck the rest of that shitshow..

[Buster Highmen]

I've skied with 2funky, he's neither new nor jizzmonkey.
I just don't understand that claim when unvaxxed are 5 times more likely to get covid to begin with.
From that pov, the relative viral loads are almost irrelevant, though I've read the Lancet study that shows the loads are less long lived for the vaxxed IF infected than unvaxxed.

So maybe I'm wrong. Show me.

Besides, after all you scout types should know: "don't be scared, be prepared".

[KQ]

She has an interesting character to go with the looks... She goes to 11, and (sadly) occasionally with the dumbshittery as well.
Not to defend her, but her office had some major malfunctions as well, and the yellow papers took a run with it...

On the side note, met a former acquaintance. Havent seen him in ages but knew he had gone off the rails based on my infrequent FB visits.
After the normal yeahyeahs he asked if I had gotten vaxxed?

Me: "Yup. Twice. Getting my third within a week."
He: "WTF? You are like 40, you should not be allowed for third one yet?!!"
Me: " I got yours as its a leftover"

Was interesting to see how one (formerly) relatively sane person was considering throwing a punch, a tantrum and a yell-a-thon at the same time.
After few seconds off jittery silence, he just left without saying a word, rage white, shaking.

Interesting experience, I have to admit.

High blood pressure is considered a preexisting condition for Covid. A recent article I read reported that since the pandemic doctors have seen a marked increase in patients with elevated BP esp. women. Mine is up which is why I got my booster back in November as soon as they were available despite being under 60 (pretty sure it's due to stress from the pandemic and lack of sleep due to night sweats because I eat right, exercise and am thin).

Anyhoo.... in the future if you don't want an argument high BP is any easy thing to throw out there.

[skiJ]

with the national vaccination rate (two doses) at sixty percent - with 100 million people who are not "fully vaccinated", it is hard for me to believe that a 'social contract' exists regarding covid.

it is interesting to me, the discrimination I feel as I mask for getting groceries, in an area where the vaccination rate remains below fifty percent.
That's okay - I will continue to take precautions that I believe decrease the risk to my neighbors ( and myself)...

I believe we are just going to have to find a long view of this ;
I don't believe it is going to go away anytime soon...
Maybe with advances in vaccine technology a day will come with extended immunity and further decreases in transmission...

until then, my continuing thanks to those who continue to promote vaccination and other measures to limit the spread of this disease -

Thank you. tj