To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[skiJ]

Bottom line, I don't think anyone should be coerced or forced to inject something into their body so they can participate in 'society' or make you feel 'safe'.

This tgr lib mob reminds me of the kangaroo court in Idiocracy. Fortunately you're a relatively small group.

I'll let you all get back to your expert level circle jerk.

preserved.

several others ^^^ have addressed this well.

good luck.
Please get vaccinated. tj

( I believe we are a week or three (weeks) from beginning to have data on vaccination effectivess for omicron )

[schindlerpiste]

A friend of mine and his family who live in town, and who I have invited to my house for X-mas dinner, will be traveling from SLC to NY on Dec. 18, then to Toronto on Dec. 20, then back to SLC on 12/24. I think that I may cancel. OTOH, they will all need to pass a COVID test w/in 24hrs. of returning to the USA, and my son works at a very busy local bar 5 days/wk, and he will be dining with us.

Other notes:
1) I will return to last year's protocol and wear a mask when skiing;
2) On Wednesday, my sister's in-laws, who live in Germany and are in their late '80s, finally received their first vax. On Friday, both were diagnosed with COVID. My bro-in-law's bro., who is an anti-vaxxer, is blaming the vax for the diagnosis. They are doing very poorly and they can't receive hospital treatment because of overcrowding. +++VIBES+++

[altasnob]

China Calls on ‘Little Inoculated Warriors’

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/06/b...smid=url-share

China has embarked on an ambitious campaign that it says will give the country better protection against Covid-19: full inoculation of 160 million of its youngest citizens by the end of the year.

In the first two weeks of the effort, which began in late October, 84 million boys and girls between the ages of 3 and 11, about half of the eligible population, received the first of two shots.

By contrast, in the United States, 2.6 million children between ages 5 and 11, or about 10 percent of the eligible population, received one dose over roughly the same time period.

The campaign faces significant obstacles, including parental reluctance in a country with a checkered history of safety on children’s vaccines. The government insists that child inoculations are voluntary, but parents have described coming under pressure to get their children vaccinated.

Though Chinese vaccines are generally considered safe, the country also has a history of administering spoiled shots and guarding any information about negative incidents.

China is the world’s last zero-Covid holdout, and officials have shown no willingness to change course. Cities of millions of people continue to be locked down during minor outbreaks; tourist sites like Shanghai Disneyland have been shut down to carry out on-the-spot testing. People who lie about infections, hide symptoms or try to escape quarantine do so under threat of prison.

The ruling Communist Party has pointed to the country’s low Covid-19 numbers — fewer than 5,000 people have died — as evidence that China’s authoritarian model is superior to the rest of the world, even as its borders remain closed and ordinary citizens find their personal freedom severely restricted during outbreaks.

[wooley12]

I'll bet you have a point to make. What is it?

[SumJongGuy]

Other notes:
1) I will return to last year's protocol and wear a mask when skiing;

Went skiing yesterday in North KaKalaKi. Outdoors NOBODY wore masks except 2-3 instructors who were working with little kids too houng to be vaxxed. Indoors myself and maybe a handful of others wore masks. 80% of the staff indoors NOT wearing any masks. If I wasn't triple vaxxed I would have turned around and left without even a single run.
But, I was mostly comfortable outdoors unmasked, slight breeze. Last year pre vax I left the same place after an hour when it got crowed and a few people were NOT covering up outdoors.

Thankfully vaccines have me much better protected. I still wish the rest of the folks indoors would have covered up. Some of us go home to immune compromised and/or children too young to be vaxxed.

[Ted Striker]

Another disingenuous talking point is the ‘well we are totally reasonable folks who would just like to see effective treatments developed rather than a focus on vaccines’. This particular piece of stupidity requires one to actively ignore that medical research pretty much always looks at prevention vs treatment options, and generally science rejoices when preventative or mitigation measures can be found (eg vaccines) since they are typically so much cheaper and/or more feasible to administer across populations and regional economies incl developing world.

Fuck seatbelts! I want titanium bones.

[skaredshtles]

Went skiing yesterday in North KaKalaKi. Outdoors NOBODY wore masks except 2-3 instructors who were working with little kids too houng to be vaxxed. Indoors myself and maybe a handful of others wore masks. 80% of the staff indoors NOT wearing any masks. If I wasn't triple vaxxed I would have turned around and left without even a single run.
But, I was mostly comfortable outdoors unmasked, slight breeze. Last year pre vax I left the same place after an hour when it got crowed and a few people were NOT covering up outdoors.

I'd say at this point that *any* expectation that folks wear masks outdoors is fairly unreasonable, unless the outdoor activity is PACKED with humans in very close proximity.

[schindlerpiste]

I'd say at this point that *any* expectation that folks wear masks outdoors is fairly unreasonable, unless the outdoor activity is PACKED with humans in very close proximity.

Like weekend lift lines, trams and gondolas?

[bennymac]

Fuck seatbelts! I want titanium bones.

Demand your doctor give them to you! Contact your representatives in office if no one will perform the surgery.

[Ted Striker]

His posts don't count

FIFY

[huckbucket]

Fuck seatbelts! I want titanium bones.

Who needs a seatbelt? We have medical procedures for people who crash. Ever heard of traction?

[jono]

FIFY

Yeah, that's what I was getting at, thanks!

[jono]

China Calls on ‘Little Inoculated Warriors’

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/06/b...smid=url-share

China has embarked on an ambitious campaign that it says will give the country better protection against Covid-19: full inoculation of 160 million of its youngest citizens by the end of the year.

In the first two weeks of the effort, which began in late October, 84 million boys and girls between the ages of 3 and 11, about half of the eligible population, received the first of two shots.

By contrast, in the United States, 2.6 million children between ages 5 and 11, or about 10 percent of the eligible population, received one dose over roughly the same time period.

The campaign faces significant obstacles, including parental reluctance in a country with a checkered history of safety on children’s vaccines. The government insists that child inoculations are voluntary, but parents have described coming under pressure to get their children vaccinated.

Though Chinese vaccines are generally considered safe, the country also has a history of administering spoiled shots and guarding any information about negative incidents.

China is the world’s last zero-Covid holdout, and officials have shown no willingness to change course. Cities of millions of people continue to be locked down during minor outbreaks; tourist sites like Shanghai Disneyland have been shut down to carry out on-the-spot testing. People who lie about infections, hide symptoms or try to escape quarantine do so under threat of prison.

The ruling Communist Party has pointed to the country’s low Covid-19 numbers — fewer than 5,000 people have died — as evidence that China’s authoritarian model is superior to the rest of the world, even as its borders remain closed and ordinary citizens find their personal freedom severely restricted during outbreaks.

This is exhibit A for all the dumbasses who think American vaccine hesitancy is not a geopolitical threat. D0D is at the front of the line today, but it's a long line.

But he makes a good point: no one has the right to coerce another in order to make themselves feel safer. Goes the same for forcing or prohibiting either an action or inaction. A rational mind would then check in with the facts and find out who is hazarding whom. Irrational ones just say "my/his/her/every body, MY choice."

[skaredshtles]

Like weekend lift lines, trams and gondolas?

I would consider trams and gondolas enclosed - so yeah.

Lift lines? *I* personally would not have the expectation that others would be masked in lift lines...

[Peruvian]

I don't know if this has been shared yet, but I found it interesting.

[LongShortLong]

I would consider trams and gondolas enclosed - so yeah.

Lift lines? *I* personally would not have the expectation that others would be masked in lift lines...

MIT and Alta collaborated on a study last year that concluded liftlines required masks to meet their safety threshold. That was in the days of low case rates and no vaccination. IIRC, they used a case rate of 5/100k/day. US is currently at 6 times that, and not everyone is vaccinated, so the situation is slightly worse this year than modeled in the study.

[SumJongGuy]

I'd say at this point that *any* expectation that folks wear masks outdoors is fairly unreasonable, unless the outdoor activity is PACKED with humans in very close proximity.

Ya but 90% of people weren't wearing them INDOORS either.. rental shop lines and counters filling out forms. fitting boots, etc cough cough..

[skaredshtles]

Ya but 90% of people weren't wearing them INDOORS either.. rental shop lines and counters filling out forms. fitting boots, etc cough cough..

I ain't goin' indoors with a bunch of unmasked morans. I'll just piss in the woods, thank you very much.

[huckbucket]

I don't know if this has been shared yet, but I found it interesting.

Here's the take away in case anyone didn't watch.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

[Summit]

MIT and Alta collaborated on a study last year that concluded liftlines required masks to meet their safety threshold. That was in the days of low case rates and no vaccination. IIRC, they used a case rate of 5/100k/day. US is currently at 6 times that, and not everyone is vaccinated, so the situation is slightly worse this year than modeled in the study.

I'm not sure how much I liked their modeling, and most skiers were wearing single layer cloth masks (buffs) anyway so almost useless.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The Libertarian adage is: Your right to swing your arm ends before my nose.

So, society has always reasonably placed some requirements on behavior to be part of a free society.

Even the Founding Fathers understood the need for public health measures such as quarantine and immunization (variolation), and the right of society to command such things from unwilling members.

Do you have the right to be drunk? Yes. In Public? If you do not disturb others. While driving? That is hazarding others.

I equate choosing to be unvaccinated with being drunk while driving. Yea you might make it home from the bar without hitting anyone. Or you might cause a multicar pileup. You are hazarding others, society, and yourself much more than if sober and society has decided to restrict your liberty to behave in such a manner so that they can be free and safe from such unjustifiable danger.

No man is an island when it comes to communicable disease.

Funny, I was going to post a drunk driving analogy before I read your post. DOD is just that, dumb.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Bottom line, I don't think anyone should be coerced or forced to inject something into their body so they can participate in 'society' or make you feel 'safe'.

This tgr lib mob reminds me of the kangaroo court in Idiocracy. Fortunately you're a relatively small group.

I'll let you all get back to your expert level circle jerk.

No one is being forced to inject anything. They have a choice and there are consequences for that choice. Just like most things in life.


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[2FUNKY]

Jfc this thread would be a great case study for a Psychologist. The irrational fear is both intriguing and alarming at the same time. Carry on.

[jono]

I'm not sure how much I liked their modeling, and most skiers were wearing single layer cloth masks (buffs) anyway so almost useless.

Do you have some specific concerns you can highlight about the modeling?

I'm not afraid of single layer buffs. Gapers gonna gape and wonder why they always have to mess with them, but if they're worn as intended (pulled over the head with the front folded down over the chin) they're two layers in front of nose and mouth and that's been shown to be 90% effective. Not to mention comfortable and easy to breathe through.

Even one layer does a lot for slowing your breath horizontally, and if it rises before it reaches anyone that ought to work pretty well in the lift line.

[dunfree]

Jfc this thread would be a great case study for a Psychologist. The irrational fear is both intriguing and alarming at the same time. Carry on.

Like clockwork a “rationalist” trolls in.

but then that’s the politics of it now. The idiots want to pretend none of this was necessary; utterly ignoring data that doesn’t fit their narrative