To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[The AD]

Not entirely true, given the leverage of public funded research and ridiculous price fixing.

Sure, the point being they've pretty much got us over a barrel because they do produce effective products.

[bennymac]

A region near me recently decided to offer J+J as an alternative option. All the responses from the unvaxxed were “oh the ones who put cancer in the baby powder? No thanks!”

Some people will find any excuse and at the same time paint themselves as a critical thinker doing their own research.

[teletech]

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justi...nt-its-history
Blind faith is odd

[bodywhomper]

Third day after Pfizer booster for me (received it Wednesday afternoon). My body is still not regulating its temperature well. Yesterday was rough but not as intense as moderna. I was in the clear at this point for moderna. My wife got her Pfizer booster yesterday. Last night was rough for her, but she’s all good now.

Fuck Oroville. CA should expel it from the state. Let 'em fix their own damn dam, or drown when it starts to fail again. They were happy to be part of CA and the USA when FEMA and the state were picking up the $1B repair bill the last time.

I’m certain that oroville is still receiving fema money: dam (owned by the state), floods, and wildfire

[bennymac]

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justi...nt-its-history
Blind faith is odd

Blind faith in what

[SumJongGuy]

The reason pharma companies make a lot of money is because the drugs they produce actually work. Really that's the bottom line.

True but they only invest in research towards expensive temporary remedies... No recurring revenue in permanent cures...

[Adolf Allerbush]

The shit going on in Germany/Switzerland, Australia, etc. is absolutely crazy. Never thought I would see this level of totalitarianism.

your post count is weird.

[Mofro261]

Same thing with a good friend of mine who is otherwise young/healthy but has major thyroid issues. Her doc told her not to get the vaccine.

My neighboor had a Delta breakthrough case a month ago- she said it was the worst ~10 days she's ever felt and wouldn't wish it on anyone. Her 5 yro brought it home from preschool but she remained asymptomatic, and her vaxxed husband was tested every 48hr for 14 days over her infection and remained negative.

Turns out she was treated for thyroid cancer in Feb this year prior to getting the vax so she was immunocompromised.

[skaredshtles]

The shit going on in Germany/Switzerland, Australia, etc. is absolutely crazy. Never thought I would see this level of totalitarianism.

[Truckee Joe]

The shit going on in Germany/Switzerland, Australia, etc. is absolutely crazy. Never thought I would see this level of totalitarianism.

Don't be fooled, every government has the ability to take total control if needed.

[Mofro261]

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justi...nt-its-history
Blind faith is odd

Get informed.

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/all

[KQ]

Comedian Torches Anti-Vaxxer In The Audience With An Absolutely Killer Line

British comedian Jimmy Carr jabbed an anti-vax member of his audience with a killer punchline about the coronavirus shot.

“Let’s talk about the controversial thing, the vaccine,” Carr said in a preview of his upcoming Netflix special, “His Dark Material,” released this week.

“Who’s not going to take the vaccine because they think it might be dangerous?” he asked. “Raise your hands.”

Then, in response to someone in the audience who apparently did raise their hand, Carr delivered the punchline: “Now take that hand, and slap yourself in the fucking face.”

“The spread of COVID was directly linked to how dense the population is,” Carr said later. “And some of the population are really quite fucking dense.”

[Summit]

Good comedy, accurate, but doesn't change any minds. I'm not sure what does anymore. Political inoculations of antivax fear are quite potent induce a strong sterilizing immunity against infusions of facts and reason.

[The AD]

I understand that people don't like to be told what to do, but how about take one for the team since it's the right thing to do for humanity? Is that so difficult?

[Mofro261]

How was it the worst ten days of her life if she was asymptomatic?

The 5yro kid is a girl, and the 5yro girl was asymptomatic.

[The AD]

The 5yro kid is a girl, and the 5yro girl was asymptomatic.

Yes, I realized that ten seconds after I posted it

[Summit]

I understand that people don't like to be told what to do, but how about take one for the team since it's the right thing to do for humanity? Is that so difficult?

People are more likely to do what they are told to do by their tribe or for the good of their tribe, but if their tribe's religion has inoculated them with "don't do that it's bad" then a competing authority coming in and saying "do that it is good" is not going to be super effective. Employer mandates work though.

With many social media streams amplifying the noisy few who scream that every single death that is happening in the nation is a vaccine side effect doesn't help balance the inputs for folks. Seriously... you should see the message boards where they are claiming every celebrity death is from vaccines, that athletes are dying in droves (from vaccines), and they blast the comment section on any article about the health effects of COVID with comments about vaccines destroying everyone's heart. The echo chamber effectuates the "Big Lie" technique mastered by Goebbels and continued by the Soviets.

The social internet will be the acid that burns through society.

[The AD]

Not everyone thinks it is better for humanity.

Clearly this is correct. The thing is the people who don't are all morons.

[bennymac]

Not everyone thinks it is better for humanity

Just the vast, vast majority of epidemiologists, virologists, immunologists etc

[KQ]

Not everyone thinks the world is round either but that doesn't make it so.

[Mofro261]

Just the vast, vast majority of epidemiologists, virologists, immunologists etc

In the long run, "humanity" could benefit from ~4 billion less people. Sooooo.... let 'er rip!

Still, "society" and "economy" would continue to take a hit.

[funkendrenchman]

Not everyone thinks it is better for humanity. Vaccinating in the middle of a pandemic might actually make things worse in the long run. Obviously we won't know until looking at this retrospectively but the numbers are starting to look that way.

What numbers?

[k2skier112]

Not everyone thinks it is better for humanity. Vaccinating in the middle of a pandemic might actually make things worse in the long run. Obviously we won't know until looking at this retrospectively but the numbers are starting to look that way.

Most ignorant and incorrect POTY
Fuck, you just don't get it...

[riser4]

That's fine you can all have your opinion and I won't call you a moron or a troll, make false equivalencies, etc.

When the co-inventor of mRNA vaccines was practically begging everyone in charge NOT to undertake a mass vaccination campaign, because it's the wrong tool/methodology for the job, it makes me wonder a bit. I'm trying to keep an open mind but like I said the numbers aren't looking good.
If this pandemic was instead due to variola major with a 30% death rate (not to mention a virus that is actually able to be eradicated via old-school attenuated virus vaccine) then I would likely have a different take on all this.
Like I've said before this whole situation sucks and we should be focusing on whether or not gain of function research is allowed, preserving people's right to decide if they want a vaccine or not, etc.
Best of health to all of you!

Source on coinventor statements?

[Bunion 2020]

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...keptic/619734/

Robert Malone claims to have invented mRNA technology. Why is he trying so hard to undermine its use?
By Tom Bartlett


Robert Malone—a medical doctor and an infectious-disease researcher—recently suggested that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines might actually make COVID-19 infections worse. He chuckled as he imagined Anthony Fauci announcing that the vaccination campaign was all a big mistake (“Oh darn, I was wrong!”) and would need to be abandoned. When he floated that nightmare scenario during a recent podcast interview with Steve Bannon, both men seemed almost delighted at the prospect of public-health officials and pharmaceutical companies getting their comeuppance. “This is a catastrophe,” Bannon declared, beaming at his guest. “You’re hearing it from an individual who invented the mRNA [vaccine] and has dedicated his life to vaccines. He’s the opposite of an anti-vaxxer.”

Before going any further, let’s be clear that the back-and-forth between Bannon and Malone was premised on misinformation. The vaccines have repeatedly been shown to help prevent symptomatic coronavirus infections and reduce their severity. Malone was riffing on a botched sentence in a USA Today article, one that was later deleted but not before being screenshotted and widely shared. That kind of overheated, spottily sourced conversation is par for the course on shows like Bannon’s, which traffic in a set of claims that sound depressingly familiar: The vaccines cause more harm than experts are letting on; Fauci is a liar and possibly a fascist; and the mainstream news media is either shamelessly complicit or too stupid to figure out what’s really going on.

In that alternate media universe, Robert Malone’s star is ascendant. He started popping up on podcasts and cable news shows a few months ago, presented as a scientific expert, arguing that the approval process for the vaccines had been unwisely rushed. He told Tucker Carlson that the public doesn’t have enough information to decide whether to get vaccinated. He told Glenn Beck that offering incentives for taking vaccines is unethical. He told Del Bigtree, an anti-vaccine activist who opposes common childhood inoculations, that there hadn’t been sufficient research on how the vaccines might affect women’s reproductive systems. On show after show, Malone, who has quickly amassed more than 200,000 Twitter followers, casts doubt on the safety of the vaccines while decrying what he sees as attempts to censor dissent.

Wherever he appears, Malone is billed as the inventor of mRNA vaccines. It’s in his Twitter bio. “I literally invented mRNA technology when I was 28,” says Malone, who is now 61. If that’s true—or, more to the point, if Malone believes it to be true—then you might expect him to be championing a very different message in his media appearances. According to one recent study, the innovation for which he claims to be responsible has already saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the United States alone; there’s talk that it may soon lead to a round of Nobel Prizes. It’s the kind of validation that few scientists in history have ever received. Yet instead of taking a victory lap, Malone has emerged as one of the most vocal critics of his own alleged accomplishment. He’s sowed doubt about the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines on pretty much any podcast or YouTube channel that will have him.

Why is the self-described inventor of the mRNA vaccines working so hard to undermine them?

Whether Malone really came up with mRNA vaccines is a question probably best left to Swedish prize committees, but you could make a case for his involvement. When I called Malone at his 50-acre horse farm in Virginia, he directed me to a 6,000-word essay written by his wife, Jill, that lays out why he believes himself to be the primary discoverer. “This is a story about academic and commercial avarice,” it begins. The document’s tone is pointed, and at times lapses into all-caps fury. She frames her husband as a genius scientist who is “largely unknown by the scientific establishment because of abuses by individuals to secure their own place in the history books.”

The abridged version is that when Malone was a graduate student in biology in the late 1980s at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies, he injected genetic material—DNA and RNA—into the cells of mice in hopes of creating a new kind of vaccine. He was the first author on a 1989 paper demonstrating how RNA could be delivered into cells using lipids, which are basically tiny globules of fat, and a co-author on a 1990 Science paper showing that if you inject pure RNA or DNA into mouse muscle cells, it can lead to the transcription of new proteins. If the same approach worked for human cells, the latter paper said in its conclusion, this technology “may provide alternative approaches to vaccine development.”

These two studies do indeed represent seminal work in the field of gene transfer, according to Rein Verbeke, a postdoctoral fellow at Ghent University, in Belgium, and the lead author of a 2019 history of mRNA-vaccine development. (Indeed, Malone’s studies are the first two references in Verbeke’s paper, out of 224 in total.) Verbeke told me he believes that Malone and his co-authors “sparked for the first time the hope that mRNA could have potential as a new drug class,” though he also notes that “the achievement of the mRNA vaccines of today is the accomplishment of a lot of collaborative efforts.”

Malone says he deserves credit for more than just sparking hope. He dropped out of graduate school in 1988, just short of his Ph.D., and went to work at a pharmaceutical company called Vical. Now he claims that both the Salk Institute and Vical profited from his work and essentially prevented him from further pursuing his research. (A Salk Institute spokesperson said that nothing in the institute’s records substantiates Malone’s allegations. The biotech company into which Vical was merged, Brickell, did not respond to requests for comment.) To say that Malone remains bitter over this perceived mistreatment doesn’t do justice to his sense of aggrievement. He calls what happened to him “intellectual rape.”