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  1. #14351
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    Mar 2019
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    Itís now been 6 weeks of skidog trying and failing to suck his own dick in here. Pretty sad considering it takes minimal effort for a dog to do so.

    Even sadder that we keep telling him how it should be done.

    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  2. #14352
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
    It’s now been 6 weeks of skidog trying and failing to suck his own dick in here. Pretty sad considering it takes minimal effort for a dog to do so.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Well, it is possible...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  3. #14353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    I've been phd scientist in the Infectious Disease field working on both vaccines and diagnostics, since 2003.
    ...and a dentist, to boot.


    Anyway, if there's any doubt that teh TRGs have gone full endstage-TeleTips this thread is proof.

  4. #14354
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    Oct 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    I think you describe the obvious answer for 95+% of people. And Americans can be relied upon to do the right thing--after they've tried everything else. There's a fraction who will resist the right thing even harder if they aren't "allowed" to try everything else. And another (larger?) fraction that only accept the truth if they feel they've discovered it themselves. So letting them shoulder the cost and try the alternative might be the more expedient way to illustrate how obvious this choice should be. If they can find a way to do it reliably.
    thanks, jono - and Thank you... !

    as this thread has drifted ( and then gone a little crazy in the past week ) I thought there might be value in looking at the origin of the thread -

    I wish the answer was obvious to 95+% of the people - we would be well on the way to eliminating the threat from this virus.


    Saturday night's report was 70million Americans eligible remain unvaccinated ; I calculate that to be approximately 23% of the population ( given that young children are not yet eligible for vaccination ) ...

    If we are at 77% vaccination, and 70million remain unvaccinated, ,,, to me, that means we are going to fall Ten million people short of population immunity. Ten million is a lot of people - -


    my background is cost effective public health. I appreciate the idea of antibody testing, but as a matter of cost effectiveness ( including the bureaucratic cost of documenting antibody testing and tracking antibody testing. . . ) - Today I read two of the most outspoken 'Alpha male' critics of vaccination are ultimately, afraid of needles. god help us.


    so. I just wanted to try to nudge the discussion back to the original question -

    To Vaccinate or Not (?)

    can we be done with this Before 2024... ?


    Please. get vaccinated.


    Thank you. tj
    Last edited by skiJ; 09-28-2021 at 05:24 PM.

  5. #14355
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    Dec 2012
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    I smell poutine!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AEvospace View Post
    Youíre blocked, I donít waste time with biased, partisan hacks.

    So many of you are partisan hacks.
    Ooh ooh, block me next?

  6. #14356
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    Nov 2005
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    SkiJ: sorry, I worded that clumsily. I didn't mean to imply that 95% see it as obvious today, rather that if they worked through it (as you outlined) that 5% or less (probably a lot less) could logically wind up thinking they'd prefer constant PCR's or even infrequent antigen testing to just getting a shot.

    We just shouldn't let our enemies paint this as unreasonable (and therefore: watch out!! Control!!!) so that our idiots can help them achieve the goal of keeping us divided, unvaccinated, unmasked, diseased and/or (ultimate triumph) locked down. If convalescants want an alternative badly enough to pay for it we should let them.

  7. #14357
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    northern BC
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    a guy like mofro has been to like grade 31 to study shit at the level he is into it

    instead of taking his word these fucking crayon eaters are doing their own research

    and we gotta suffer thru it
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #14358
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    Dec 2005
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    7,161
    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    Ooh ooh, block me next?
    Hey! Thereís a line

  9. #14359
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    Dec 2002
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    cow hampshire
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    6,547
    Backwardass town close to me. The only morons in the district to vote against wearing masks.
    "Seabrook schools COVID outbreak: Mask optional policy altered after 12 cases, 127 absent"

    https://www.seacoastonline.com/story...6iH7clMRs98s0Q

  10. #14360
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    a guy like mofro has been to like grade 31 to study shit at the level he is into it

    instead of taking his word these fucking crayon eaters are doing their own research copying other crayon eater's work..

    and we gotta suffer thru it
    More like that??
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  11. #14361
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    Nov 2008
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    A new study comparing 4 vaccines 1) Pfizer 2) Moderna 3) J&J 4) AZ and 5) Prior Convalescent Patients for neutralization vs. Covid variants four weeks after full dosing:

    - The mRNA vaccines are profoundly superior to the adenovirus vector-based vaccines at inducing neutralizing antibodies (an mRNA boost to adenovirus vector-based vaccines has been shown to be highly effective in other studies). The study also says strong neutralizing antibody responses do not alone account for the protection by current vaccines.

    - Prior convalescent Covid is highly variable. Convalescent variability appears tied to severity of disease: hospitalized convalescent patients (dark gray) had more neutralization titers than patients who were not hospitalized (light gray).

    - All four vaccines remained above half-maximal neutralization but the Beta, Gamma and Delta variants showed on average an 5.8-fold, 3.5-fold and 3.9-fold reduced sensitivity to neutralization from convalescent patients as well as from vaccine recipients.

    - However, according to the authors, while circulating antibodies might be unable to neutralize such emerging viruses, memory B cells are still likely to recognize variants and undergo new rounds of affinity maturation, resulting in new neutralizing antibodies that should kick-in in time to prevent severe disease after infection.

    - Note the importance of full vaccination

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    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....27.21264163v1

  12. #14362
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    A new study comparing 4 vaccines 1) Pfizer 2) Moderna 3) J&J 4) AZ and 5) Prior Convalescent Patients for neutralization vs. Covid variants four weeks after full dosing:

    - The mRNA vaccines are profoundly superior to the adenovirus vector-based vaccines at inducing neutralizing antibodies (an mRNA boost to adenovirus vector-based vaccines has been shown to be highly effective in other studies). The study also says strong neutralizing antibody responses do not alone account for the protection by current vaccines.

    - Prior convalescent Covid is highly variable. Convalescent variability appears tied to severity of disease: hospitalized convalescent patients (dark gray) had more neutralization titers than patients who were not hospitalized (light gray).

    - All four vaccines remained above half-maximal neutralization but the Beta, Gamma and Delta variants showed on average an 5.8-fold, 3.5-fold and 3.9-fold reduced sensitivity to neutralization from convalescent patients as well as from vaccine recipients.

    - However, according to the authors, while circulating antibodies might be unable to neutralize such emerging viruses, memory B cells are still likely to recognize variants and undergo new rounds of affinity maturation, resulting in new neutralizing antibodies that should kick-in in time to prevent severe disease after infection.

    - Note the importance of full vaccination

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    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....27.21264163v1
    From the graph it looks like they tested J and J after 1 and 2 doses? I assume that's what post-prime 2 means. Not much difference from the second dose.

  13. #14363
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    Glad I got Moderna.. I was one click away from getting a JnJ right before they put it in hold..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  14. #14364
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    From the graph it looks like they tested J and J after 1 and 2 doses? I assume that's what post-prime 2 means. Not much difference from the second dose.
    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Glad I got Moderna.. I was one click away from getting a JnJ right before they put it in hold..
    For J&Js single-dose regimen, vaccine recipients were sampled approximately five and eight weeks after the single-dose vaccination. Separately from the study, recently released J&J data shows a second dose significantly increases efficacy.

    The authors emphasize that all four vaccines are extremely effective at preventing severe disease. While neutralizing antibodies are a strong correlate of protection, antibodies alone are not the only factor when it comes to vaccine protection.

    FWIW, while such a regimen is not approved in the U.S., in other countries J&J or AZ followed by an mRNA 2nd dose appears more effective than two doses of mRNA (but not the other way around).

  15. #14365
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    From the graph it looks like they tested J and J after 1 and 2 doses? I assume that's what post-prime 2 means. Not much difference from the second dose.
    J&J is one dose

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  16. #14366
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    And leeches!
    And prayer. Donít forget prayer.

  17. #14367
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    Oct 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    J&J is one dose

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app
    J&J is now advocating a second dose:
    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/2nd-do...ry?id=80138043

  18. #14368
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    (but not the other way around).
    Wow. Sorta like, mRNA trains your immune system to kill off the J&J?

  19. #14369
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Glad I got Moderna.. I was one click away from getting a JnJ right before they put it in hold..
    My only gripe with Moderna is it seems like a waste of a perfectly good minivan name. Introducing the Chrysler Moderna!

  20. #14370
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    Sep 2008
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    12,217
    seems like some groups on twitter have been activated because norway is opening up. let the next public health experiment begin!
    They got a name for the winners in the world

    http://procatinator.com/?cat=80

  21. #14371
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    Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Wow. Sorta like, mRNA trains your immune system to kill off the J&J?
    jRNA? has a ring to it.

  22. #14372
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    My only gripe with Moderna is it seems like a waste of a perfectly good minivan name. Introducing the Chrysler Moderna!
    Chevy AstraZeniVan?
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  23. #14373
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    J&J is now advocating a second dose:
    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/2nd-do...ry?id=80138043
    Yes I know they all are, just wasn't sure if that study actually had 2 dose people or not.

    I'm still wondering what, in the data, is keeping moderna and j&j from full FDA approval? No conspiracy just wondering. I suspect we see booster info from them shortly, but why not full FDA approval then eua for boosters. Not even getting to 5-11age group, which Pfizer has already submitted data for eua. Can Pfizer just work that much more efficiently?

    Totally honest query I hope Mofro might answer.

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  24. #14374
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    Jun 2021
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    Pretty sure Pfizer was the first vaccine to get conditional approval or whatever they called it so makes sense they'd get full approval first.

  25. #14375
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    valley of the heart's delight
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    My take is Pfizer is more organized and has more experience running trials and getting approvals. FDA doesn't run these trials, it's up to the manufacturers to pursue licensing. Moderna is pretty new company. J+J, not sure why they are slower. Pfizer submitted their application and results first. (It's worth noting Biontech did the inventing, and used its partnership with Pfizer for most everything that makes a product sell)

    Maybe J+J sees the mRNA vaccines are better, or their development just took longer. Might be hard for J+J to enroll for their trial when mRNA is the hot vaccine. J+J's business case in the US seems much weaker than the other two. Spend millions on a trial, sell millions of vaccines, make millions of dollars. The other two companies will sell 100 millions of vaccines and make hundred millions of dollars. Despite some flaws, regulated capitalism seems to be picking the best products here.

    The right question may be, how did Moderna succeed to the degree it has? Invented the best vaccine, got an EUA, and managed to manufacture and sell a shitload of it.

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