Page 511 of 713 FirstFirst ... 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 ... LastLast
Results 12,751 to 12,775 of 17823
  1. #12751
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    331
    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    The elephant in the room with all of this Fauci/mask chaff is that isnít even the argument people opposed to vaccination are making. Mtu thinks his natural immunity from COVID is fine, others think alternative treatments like Regeneron ,ivermectin and hydroxy are better, and they argue that the vaccine is actually unsafe.

    The reality is that basically all of these loud voices spreading this information against vaccination appear to either a) have a profit or political motive or b) are not educated in the relevant science or c) appear to have a mental illness.
    except Iíve already shown studies that prove natural immunity is just as good if not better than the vaccine. Youíre wrong and canít admit it, but thatís okay. Iíll just keep pointing out where youíre wrong.

  2. #12752
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    841
    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    crying. should be getting back to stocking the shelves at Staples
    Fuck off hack

  3. #12753
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Before
    Posts
    24,868
    Quote Originally Posted by mtuhockey33 View Post
    except I’ve already shown studies that prove natural immunity is just as good if not better than the vaccine. You’re wrong and can’t admit it, but that’s okay. I’ll just keep pointing out where you’re wrong.
    Links please?
    I think mofro261 also posted a number of pretty convincing arguments that the claim that natural immunity is "better" in any sense than vaccine based immunity, ignoring even the risk of getting covid in the first place.

    If you're referring to this: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....24.21262415v1

    There's the disclaimer:


    This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.



    Further, that study has been debunked since the comparison was done without appropriate control groups.

    Further yet:

    Results showed that the unvaccinated group was twice as likely to contract the infection again, compared with those who had received one dose of the vaccine.

    The findings appear to indicate increased protection from natural immunity over vaccine-conferred immunity. This may be due to a more extensive immune response to the SARS-CoV-2 proteins, compared with the immune activation provided by the vaccine, the researchers suggest.

    Infection disease experts warn that the findings should not be viewed as an excuse to forego vaccination. In an interview with MNT, Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, in Nashville, TN, said that the vaccines are doing exactly what they were designed to do.

    “All the vaccines we have, Moderna, Pfizer, and [Johnson & Johnson], are very effective in preventing hospitalization — a severity of illness that requires admission to the hospital.”

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...est-protection
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  4. #12754
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    14,411
    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    One could only hope.

    Thatís really a false equivalence, but you know that.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Yes....was tongue in cheek, but have surely seen some memes that use versions of it.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

  5. #12755
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    10,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    and yet we dont mandate "healthy body weight". Probably on its way though.
    Let's hope it is.

    Covid is a long ways from being as damaging to our physical, mental, environmental and economic health when compared to being a chunkster.

  6. #12756
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Alpental
    Posts
    6,215
    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    The elephant in the room with all of this Fauci/mask chaff is that isn’t even the argument people opposed to vaccination are making. Mtu thinks his natural immunity from COVID is fine, others think alternative treatments like Regeneron ,ivermectin and hydroxy are better, and they argue that the vaccine is actually unsafe.

    The reality is that basically all of these loud voices spreading this information against vaccination appear to either a) have a profit or political motive or b) are not educated in the relevant science or c) appear to have a mental illness.
    d)All of the above.

    Is still an option.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  7. #12757
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    14,411
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    No I think that its a hint that he has a magic shot that confers 60-90 % chance of not becoming fat. We will here big things about Skidogís fat vaccine soon enough!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I think the point is obesity is a killer in America. Costs lives. Not covid like cause it doesn't transmit..

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

  8. #12758
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The Mayonnaisium
    Posts
    8,855
    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    The right way to look at this is asking whether mandates get us the maximum gain in vaccination rates and public trust in the long term--and if those two are at odds with each other, is the magnitude of the gain worth the long term cost? I'm not sure about that. Maybe so. Mandate effectiveness probably varies by location, among other things.

    I'm sure that deserves honest debate and that dishonest debate is counterproductive, just like lying about masks.
    Pfizer had EUA in December 2020. How much more debate do you think should be allowed and why should debate be prioritized over taking immediate action (read: mandates) that would undoubtedly save lives, prevent morbidity, and save money? Do you think more debate would result in something close to universal agreement on mandates?

  9. #12759
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    8,689
    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Here's a hint: if your latest example of Democratic misinformation comes from last October (Harris on vaccines) you're probably grasping at straws a bit. Not to defend those statements, but it's pretty clear they were just part of the Presidential campaign posturing and it should be noted the tenor was that they aren't going to listen to Trump about the vaccines, but rather the scientific community. To me that's a significant difference.

    The other examples from February 2020 are just lame. Of course they were wrong at the time. People make mistakes, but hopefully they realize these mistakes and make corrections. The people you need to worry about are those who are so steadfast in their convictions that no amount of contrary evidence can sway them.
    Perhaps you missed my point. I wasn't saying those things were/are misinformation/disinformation. I was pointing out how I can literally say the EXACT same things about masks/vaccines at the SAME TIME Fauci/Biden/Harris said those things, yet when I say it, it's "misinformation." Go back in the timeline. I've backed off the vaccine concerns about the same time Biden/Harris, which coincided with more and more data coming out. I'm not saying Biden/Harris were or are wrong based on the science at each point in time. I'm pointing out the treatment in others and how we tend to filter out information based on pre-conceived notions and biases. When I thought it it was of less concern than the flu, that's because the top people (ie Fauci) were saying that too. However, as it became clear it was way worse than we originally thought, I changed my stance, as I have on many of the other things, even if it took me a minute to get there. Yet people here also hold against some of us what we said a year+ ago like we're stuck in time, but for others who are a part of the TGR echo chamber cult, we allow them that freedom of changing stances as we learn more. But throwing out accusations of "misinformation" and "disinformation" is the hip, new version of calling somebody as racist in a vain attempt to shut down a conversation.

  10. #12760
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    14,411
    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Perhaps you missed my point. I wasn't saying those things were/are misinformation/disinformation. I was pointing out how I can literally say the EXACT same things about masks/vaccines at the SAME TIME Fauci/Biden/Harris said those things, yet when I say it, it's "misinformation." Go back in the timeline. I've backed off the vaccine concerns about the same time Biden/Harris, which coincided with more and more data coming out. I'm not saying Biden/Harris were or are wrong based on the science at each point in time. I'm pointing out the treatment in others and how we tend to filter out information based on pre-conceived notions and biases. When I thought it it was of less concern than the flu, that's because the top people (ie Fauci) were saying that too. However, as it became clear it was way worse than we originally thought, I changed my stance, as I have on many of the other things, even if it took me a minute to get there. Yet people here also hold against some of us what we said a year+ ago like we're stuck in time, but for others who are a part of the TGR echo chamber cult, we allow them that freedom of changing stances as we learn more. But throwing out accusations of "misinformation" and "disinformation" is the hip, new version of calling somebody as racist in a vain attempt to shut down a conversation.
    Borg way or the highway man.....

  11. #12761
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    1,202
    If you would stop bringing up things from a year ago like they are still relevant, people would stop treating you like you are stuck in time. Your talking points match up very closely with the disinformation campaigns that are going on, so perhaps you should take a step back and think about why people put you in that category.

    There is a very interesting discussion going on around the actual science here.

  12. #12762
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wenatchee
    Posts
    10,463
    Quote Originally Posted by mtuhockey33 View Post
    except Iíve already shown studies that prove natural immunity is just as good if not better than the vaccine. Youíre wrong and canít admit it, but thatís okay. Iíll just keep pointing out where youíre wrong.
    Natural immunity CAN be as good and in some instances MAY be better than vaccine acquired immunity. These two bolded words make all the difference. If you suffered a mild case of Covid you likely have immunity thatís not nearly as good as someone who has been vaccinated or almost died from Covid. The variables are too many to guess at given that we have a known safe and very effective vaccine. Go back and read Mofroís post about this for more detail.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  13. #12763
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    841
    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Of course it is. It's also the least educated state in the nation and one-party ruled, among other problems. I'm sure you can cherry pick something, but as a resident I can tell you his messaging has been consistently non-DeSantis.
    I'm going to concede that this guy is between a rock and a hardplace. His nutty Lt. Gov is playing the game and undermining him. Personally, I'd think the welfare of his citizens might warrant more than just deferring to local gov't and his messaging but he could lose the whole game with a wrong political move that loses his seat to the dipshit Lt. Gov.

    I could nitpick but there legitimate bad-faith players who deserve the scorn. That said, his state is in crisis mode and clearly cannot provide for its citizens using their own resources.

  14. #12764
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    15,738
    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Perhaps you missed my point. I wasn't saying those things were/are misinformation/disinformation. I was pointing out how I can literally say the EXACT same things about masks/vaccines at the SAME TIME Fauci/Biden/Harris said those things, yet when I say it, it's "misinformation." Go back in the timeline. I've backed off the vaccine concerns about the same time Biden/Harris, which coincided with more and more data coming out. I'm not saying Biden/Harris were or are wrong based on the science at each point in time. I'm pointing out the treatment in others and how we tend to filter out information based on pre-conceived notions and biases. When I thought it it was of less concern than the flu, that's because the top people (ie Fauci) were saying that too. However, as it became clear it was way worse than we originally thought, I changed my stance, as I have on many of the other things, even if it took me a minute to get there. Yet people here also hold against some of us what we said a year+ ago like we're stuck in time, but for others who are a part of the TGR echo chamber cult, we allow them that freedom of changing stances as we learn more. But throwing out accusations of "misinformation" and "disinformation" is the hip, new version of calling somebody as racist in a vain attempt to shut down a conversation.
    The problem you have is that you don't say the EXACT same thing as, for example, what the Biden/Harris campaign said. Specifically, you made the comment that Biden/Harris were saying they wouldn't take a Trump vaccine...when in fact they said they would wait for the scientific consensus on their safety before taking something that Trump is pushing. I think you need to recognize the difference before you will be taken seriously.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  15. #12765
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    8,689
    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    If you would stop bringing up things from a year ago like they are still relevant, people would stop treating you like you are stuck in time. Your talking points match up very closely with the disinformation campaigns that are going on, so perhaps you should take a step back and think about why people put you in that category.

    There is a very interesting discussion going on around the actual science here.
    O rly? I haven't said shit against the vaccine since Biden/Harris did too. When's the last time I've said anything against the vaccine? Hmm? When's the last time I've contradicted "teh science"?



    Usually, when I point stuff out against the narrative here, it's to point out hypocrisy in the establishment who tell us we need to do XYZ, whilst flaunting said advice over the course of the pandemic. But then THAT'S considered "misinformation" too.

  16. #12766
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    23,523
    For fuck's sake...
    A hostess at an Italian restaurant on the Upper West Side of Manhattan was assaulted by three tourists from Texas after she asked to see their proof of vaccination on Thursday, the police said, four days after enforcement of the city’s vaccine mandate for indoor diners began.

    The altercation occurred after a hostess at the restaurant, Carmine’s, asked the tourists to show her proof they were vaccinated against the coronavirus before entering for dinner, the police said. New York City requires people to prove they have received at least one dose of a vaccine before dining indoors.

    The tourists, who were identified as Kaeita Nkeenge Rankin, 44, and Tyonnie Keshay Rankin, 21, of Humble, Texas, and Sally Rechelle Lewis, 49, of Houston, began to argue with the hostess over the requirement, the police said. It was not immediately clear if they displayed proof of vaccination.

    As the argument escalated, the women began punching the hostess, who is 24, breaking her necklace during the assault. The hostess was left bruised and scratched up by the attack, the police said.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/17/n...-attacked.html

  17. #12767
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,264
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I never said un-American. But we're talking about people who are willing to let people die in the hoes of winning elections. These governors are not making principled stands; these are cynical positions. They want Biden to fail and the best way to do that is to keep the pandemic going. We have reached a point where mandates are the only hope we have of controlling the pandemic. Vaccines required for all discretionary activities. Vaccines required to work. Masks required indoors. Heavy fines to venues and employers who don't enforce. And I'm sure these obstructionist governors are hoping to provoke this heavy-handed approach--the same way bin Laden hoped to provoke a heavy-handed approach and succeeded. We have reached the lowest point in American history since the Civil War.

    We are way beyond credibility and education. So called lack of credibility--the Fauci/mask thing and people saying they need more information--these are not reasons. These are rationalizations. You want to play by the rules. You can't play by the rules unless the other side is playing by the same rules. The other side--the politicize the pandemic side-- has no rules. "Just win baby."
    You did not say un-American, and I was not intending to imply that I was addressing that to your post exclusively. Point is that the narrative that a politician's position on preventive measures can be boiled down to what he's willing to mandate is false. I've cited an example of someone that tried to take this seriously from the beginning and finds himself out of step with the lunatics in his party, who don't represent an outright majority in the state, but very close to it. In that situation the objective is not to get maximum legislation, it's to get maximum vaccination. This is not controversial. This is not debatable. This is fact. And not directing this at you, but the emotional response to a mention of undeniable reality is really similar to the problem we have trying to change any minds on vaccination.

    If you think changing minds on vaccination is completely impossible and we should all just embrace nihilism then nevermind. Manadates won't matter in that scheme, either.
    A woman came up to me and said "I'd like to poison your mind
    with wrong ideas that appeal to you, though I am not unkind."

  18. #12768
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    8,689
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    The problem you have is that you don't say the EXACT same thing as, for example, what the Biden/Harris campaign said. Specifically, you made the comment that Biden/Harris were saying they wouldn't take a Trump vaccine...when in fact they said they would wait for the scientific consensus on their safety before taking something that Trump is pushing. I think you need to recognize the difference before you will be taken seriously.
    OMG. That's quite LITERALLY exactly what I was saying at the time too. But I got bashed for wanting to wait for more data. See my point? When certain people like them say something, they're being "scientific" with their approach. So wise. So bold. When I say quite literally the same thing, it's going against "teh SiEnTS!"

  19. #12769
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    841
    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    If you would stop bringing up things from a year ago like they are still relevant, people would stop treating you like you are stuck in time. Your talking points match up very closely with the disinformation campaigns that are going on, so perhaps you should take a step back and think about why people put you in that category.

    There is a very interesting discussion going on around the actual science here.
    Its almost like the info from 2 years was contextually different (and qualified) than how the situation evolved and, for some reason, he's ignoring all the messaging and refinement since then. Completely disingenuous given the steady stream of rhetoric and disinformation from the denier camp.

    It's TFG tactic - find a single instance where it may be plausible that your opponent may have done something that sort of matches your endless stream of lies: "see we're all liars". Find that false equivalency at all costs.

  20. #12770
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    10,595
    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Here's a hint: if your latest example of Democratic misinformation comes from last October (Harris on vaccines) you're probably grasping at straws a bit. Not to defend those statements, but it's pretty clear they were just part of the Presidential campaign posturing and it should be noted the tenor was that they aren't going to listen to Trump about the vaccines, but rather the scientific community. To me that's a significant difference.

    The other examples from February 2020 are just lame. Of course they were wrong at the time. People make mistakes, but hopefully they realize these mistakes and make corrections. The people you need to worry about are those who are so steadfast in their convictions that no amount of contrary evidence can sway them.

    So hypothetically if trump had won, he'd have taken credit for the vaccine and the blue states would be in full lockdown adamantly refusing the vaccine and the red states would still be open and highly vaccinated.

    crazy world we live in.

  21. #12771
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    1,202
    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    O rly? I haven't said shit against the vaccine since Biden/Harris did too. When's the last time I've said anything against the vaccine? Hmm? When's the last time I've contradicted "teh science"?



    Usually, when I point stuff out against the narrative here, it's to point out hypocrisy in the establishment who tell us we need to do XYZ, whilst flaunting said advice over the course of the pandemic. But then THAT'S considered "misinformation" too.
    While you may like to reframe what you are doing as being anti-establishment (which is amusing that you go after certain ďestablishmentĒ figures, yet seem to omit a litany of others who are doing one thing while telling their constituents to do another and watching them die) When viewed in its entirety, thatís not what you are doing. Iím not going to go pull some single sentence out of your posting history as some sort of gotcha. Your posts speak for themselves.

    The experts in this thread like Mofro, Multiverse, etc have done more to counter the ďestablishmentĒ (letís just flip your definition for a second to point right instead of left) narrative and hypocrisy against masks, vaccinations and other public health measures than you can ever hope.

  22. #12772
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    Pfizer had EUA in December 2020. How much more debate do you think should be allowed and why should debate be prioritized over taking immediate action (read: mandates) that would undoubtedly save lives, prevent morbidity, and save money? Do you think more debate would result in something close to universal agreement on mandates?
    Obviously universal agreement on mandates is not a goal. Universal agreement on vaccines would be easier to achieve and result in faster vaccination. Both are impossible. But mandates are a means to an end and whether they are the most effective means has not been established. Mandates feed the narratives of the lunatics and the fence sitters see that. Whether we net more jabs is the question and in some parts of the country I think we will not.

  23. #12773
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    23,523
    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    OMG. That's quite LITERALLY exactly what I was saying at the time too. But I got bashed for wanting to wait for more data. See my point? When certain people like them say something, they're being "scientific" with their approach. So wise. So bold. When I say quite literally the same thing, it's going against "teh SiEnTS!"
    This isn't the "bash MontuckyFried" thread even if you feel that it might be at times, so maybe you should just move on and stop trying to defend yourself.

  24. #12774
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    1,202
    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Obviously universal agreement on mandates is not a goal. Universal agreement on vaccines would be easier to achieve and result in faster vaccination. Both are impossible. But mandates are a means to an end and whether they are the most effective means has not been established. Mandates feed the narratives of the lunatics and the fence sitters see that. Whether we net more jabs is the question and in some parts of the country I think we will not.
    I tend to agree with jono that the mandates may have the unintended effect of hardening the anti-COVID vaccination mentality and it may in fact spread to other vaccinations we currently consider as routine.

  25. #12775
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Mega View Post
    I'm going to concede that this guy is between a rock and a hardplace. His nutty Lt. Gov is playing the game and undermining him. Personally, I'd think the welfare of his citizens might warrant more than just deferring to local gov't and his messaging but he could lose the whole game with a wrong political move that loses his seat to the dipshit Lt. Gov.

    I could nitpick but there legitimate bad-faith players who deserve the scorn. That said, his state is in crisis mode and clearly cannot provide for its citizens using their own resources.
    There's definitely some legit nitpicking.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •