To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[jono]

Ironic.

Exactly

[dunfree]

Exactly

I guess your smug sanctimony makes you clueless?

[Buster Highmen]

Nope. I'm saying that labeling people that disagree with mandates as necessarily un-American or anti-vax is intellectually dishonest and drives down credibility, which interferes with education etc. It's counterproductive.

^This.
Recognize the core fibers of The Reformation in American culture and leverage that.

[ticketchecker]

Laura fucking Loomer, that's the post

[SumJongGuy]

They don’t pay their own taxes, what make you think they will pay yours?

FACT... We're just a writeoff. They are claiming depreciation on me for sure..

[jono]

I guess your smug sanctimony makes you clueless?

It must, right? I mean it's always too much to ask you to re-read your posts. Here, lemme help: it's ironic that you complain about the difficulty and personal strain you feel associated with a conversation, while voluntarily participating in that conversation.

Please feel free to assume that I'm too smug and sanctimonious to reach. That would be pragmatic for both of us.

[Mazderati]

Nope. I'm saying that labeling people that disagree with mandates as necessarily un-American or anti-vax is intellectually dishonest and drives down credibility, which interferes with education etc. It's counterproductive.

They you're saying a mandate is reasonable if not desirable?

[CarlMega]

who opposes mandates while actively campaigning for people to do the right thing is objectively taking the best course.

I'd have no problem with this position discussion... However, in my observations - there are like 5 maybe 6 people total taking this stance and none in a position of authority. It's a unicorn hypothetical.

Instead, we have people that are being purposely adversarial to bettering our situation - virtually at all costs....until it's too late. Further, the standard is to use disinformation to undermine any effective means.... this includes:

COVID denial
COVID downplay
COVID as a ruse for "new world order"
Mask downplay
Baseless mask 'risks'
Distancing downplay
badfaith zero-sum game position pitting COVID/measures vs. Liberty, Economics, your health
Vaccines don't work
Vaccines are worse than the disease
Vaccines as a nefarious mechanism for trans human / tracking / dna modifier - outlandish conspiracy
Vaccinated vs. unvaxed as equal risks/transmission/outcome
Conspiracy that leads to some other remedy being denied to us
Natural immunity as a viable "out" of the situation
Political boogey-manship - some authority is out to get you
Players who know the dangers, risks and best course of action but lean into the denier narrative for tribal wins
Hypocrites who take protective measures themselves but preach non-compliance for political gamesmanship: foreign actors, financial opportunists, political hacks

I've mentioned before - actual policy discussion is a good thing. Bad-faith posturing, backed by disinformation obfuscation is the opposing narrative norm. I'd love to see it some other way but the benevolent, principled libertarian strawman you present simply isn't representative enough to even enter the conversation - it's used as another ploy... an additional 'what if....." to give legitimacy to those who deserve none.

[jono]

They you're saying a mandate is reasonable if not desirable?

I'm saying nothing about the desirability of mandates. I'm saying there is a reasonable and honest reason to take either position on the topic and using ad homs to stifle debate reduces vaccination rates.

[jono]

I'd have no problem with this position discussion... However, in my observations - there are like 5 maybe 6 people total taking this stance and none in a position of authority. It's a unicorn hypothetical.

Idaho governor Brad Little. I'm not a huge fan and disagree with a ton of stuff he does but he's not hypothetical.

[CarlMega]

Idaho governor Brad Little. I'm not a huge fan and disagree with a ton of stuff he does but he's not hypothetical.

I have to pivot to something else but I guarantee I'll find him adopting one of my above narratives within the last 3 months. Guaranteed. I was just there (beautiful state) but we both know it's a COVID shitshow right now.

[Mazderati]

I'm saying nothing about the desirability of mandates. I'm saying there is a reasonable and honest reason to take either position on the topic and using ad homs to stifle debate reduces vaccination rates.

I'm asking you about mandates. Do you think mandates are reasonable at this point in time? Not if you like them. Not if you want them. Do you think mandates are reasonable right now?

[jono]

I have to pivot to something else but I guarantee I'll find him adopting one of my above narratives within the last 3 months. Guaranteed. I was just there (beautiful state) but we both know it's a COVID shitshow right now.

Of course it is. It's also the least educated state in the nation and one-party ruled, among other problems. I'm sure you can cherry pick something, but as a resident I can tell you his messaging has been consistently non-DeSantis.

[365wp]

Considering that coffee, beer, junk food all have a long-term impact on your DNA, while the mRNA material in a vaccine breaks down in a few days, I'm more concerned now about my diet than anything else.

Although since coffee and beer have opposite effects, maybe they cancel each other out?

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...-Cellular-Life

[dunfree]

It must, right? I mean it's always too much to ask you to re-read your posts. Here, lemme help: it's ironic that you complain about the difficulty and personal strain you feel associated with a conversation, while voluntarily participating in that conversation

Another day in jono inventing conversation to justify his narrative.

The number of people against vax mandates, but actively campaigning for people to get vaxxed is vanishingly small and mostly confined to a punditocracy.

and mandates work!

[jono]

I'm asking you about mandates. Do you think mandates are reasonable at this point in time? Not if you like them. Not if you want them. Do you think mandates are reasonable right now?

Sorry, I took your present tense as a question about my post. I see two ways to look at reasonability, one of which is probably sub-optimal or maybe outright wrong. That one is measuring the desperation of the situation and deciding to go with the most extreme action based on that. I think looking at it that way it's easy to justify mandates right now and maybe a month ago, especially if you started with more narrow targets.

The right way to look at this is asking whether mandates get us the maximum gain in vaccination rates and public trust in the long term--and if those two are at odds with each other, is the magnitude of the gain worth the long term cost? I'm not sure about that. Maybe so. Mandate effectiveness probably varies by location, among other things.

I'm sure that deserves honest debate and that dishonest debate is counterproductive, just like lying about masks.

[highangle]

Nope. I'm saying that labeling people that disagree with mandates as necessarily un-American or anti-vax is intellectually dishonest and drives down credibility, which interferes with education etc. It's counterproductive.

^This.
Recognize the core fibers of The Reformation in American culture and leverage that.

You two tonedeaf motherfuckers need to get a room.

At some point, the needs of the many outweigh the desires of the few to pursue temporary political happiness by owning the Libs.






https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ovid-19/620024

[jono]

It's always beautiful when highanger and CJ come together.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

So if Moderna now "owns me" do they support me or am I like a stapler?

Haven’t you always been like a stapler, even before vaccination?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[MontuckyFried]

Further, the standard is to use disinformation to undermine any effective means.... this includes:

COVID downplay <---FAUCI DID THIS FEB 2020
Mask downplay <---HE DID THIS TOO FEB 2020
Distancing downplay <---NANCY PELOSI DID THIS ("COME ON DOWN TO CHINA TOWN!")
Vaccines <--BIDEN AND HARRIS BOTH MADE STATEMENTS WARNING AGAINST THE VACCINE LAST YEAR

Were any of those instances "disinformation", or is it only disinformation when people you consider opposition say the exact same things? Last year, when I too had questions about the not yet released vaccine, I was labeled anti-vax and all that nonsense with you guys, DESPITE Biden and Harris having the exact same concerns. Yet you weren't calling them out? When I thought it was a bad idea to encourage people to congregate en masse, whilst Pelosi was telling people to come on down for the party, were you calling her out? When Fauci was saying we didn't really need masks since only N95s work for viruses and only sick or health care workers needed them, were you calling him out? Even when he literally said they had to lie to save PPE for healthcare workers, were you labelling his previous statements "Disinformation"? Prolly not. Never mind that an admitted lie from the government about masks was LITERALLY textbook and intentional "disinformation."

[Skidog]

Considering that coffee, beer, junk food all have a long-term impact on your DNA, while the mRNA material in a vaccine breaks down in a few days, I'm more concerned now about my diet than anything else.

Although since coffee and beer have opposite effects, maybe they cancel each other out?

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...-Cellular-Life

and yet we dont mandate "healthy body weight". Probably on its way though.

[Skidog]

Haven’t you always been like a stapler, even before vaccination?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

yeah well... yer mom

[old goat]

Nope. I'm saying that labeling people that disagree with mandates as necessarily un-American or anti-vax is intellectually dishonest and drives down credibility, which interferes with education etc. It's counterproductive.

I never said un-American. But we're talking about people who are willing to let people die in the hopes of winning elections. These governors are not making principled stands; these are cynical positions. They want Biden to fail and the best way to do that is to keep the pandemic going. We have reached a point where mandates are the only hope we have of controlling the pandemic. Vaccines required for all discretionary activities. Vaccines required to work. Masks required indoors. Heavy fines to venues and employers who don't enforce. And I'm sure these obstructionist governors are hoping to provoke this heavy-handed approach--the same way bin Laden hoped to provoke a heavy-handed approach and succeeded. We have reached the lowest point in American history since the Civil War.

We are way beyond credibility and education. So called lack of credibility--the Fauci/mask thing and people saying they need more information--these are not reasons. These are rationalizations. You want to play by the rules. You can't play by the rules unless the other side is playing by the same rules. The other side--the politicize the pandemic side-- has no rules. "Just win baby."

[MagnificentUnicorn]

and yet we dont mandate "healthy body weight". Probably on its way though.

One could only hope.

That’s really a false equivalence, but you know that.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Kinnikinnick]

One could only hope.

That’s really a false equivalence, but you know that.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

No I think that its a hint that he has a magic shot that confers 60-90 % chance of not becoming fat. We will here big things about Skidog’s fat vaccine soon enough!!!


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums