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  1. #6626
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    Both products use actuarial data to insure profitability. And I have seen both life and health insurance described as luxury products. Which do you see as a luxury?
    I think you can guess based on my response to MF.

  2. #6627
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    Many believe healthcare is not a right so like most yes/no questions the answer is "It depends".

    Anyhoo, only 10% wearing masks at my local Kroger's and they were giving away free bottles of Kroger branded disinfectant at the checkout. The clerk who wore an industrial strength mask for the past year seemed to think the pandemic was over. The mask I was wearing has a German idiom that means "THE WORST IS YET TO COME" but I didn't tell her.

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    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  3. #6628
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    ]
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdude2468 View Post

    And drinkers. And people who eat like shit. And people who don’t get enough sleep.
    How about reckless skiers, which is a redundant phrase to non skiers?

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  4. #6629
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    Dec 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    Many believe healthcare is not a right so...
    Yep. Many feel that way. And vote accordingly, universal health care is socialism they cry!

    But when they get sick from covid because they are also anti vax, well, all of sudden their tune changes.



    sent from Utah.
    sigless.

  5. #6630
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    That sounds good, however, if you pull up your favorite graphs of daily infections and vaccination level, there is no support for that position. In the US, from mid-Jan to mid-Feb 2021, fully vaxxed was under 10%, however this is the time of greatest fall in daily cases. From mid-Feb to mid-Apr, fully vaxxed continued to rise, however daily cases also rose. If vaccination was primarily driving the drop in cases, neither of these patterns would occur. Also, consider India, a country with minimal vaccination and lots of delta. Cases there have fallen rapidly despite minimal vaccination. This is why I say vaccination has a small influence on case rates.

    I propose instead that human behavior primarily explains surges and drops in daily Covid cases. We began in 2020 with no precautions, business as usual. Infections soared. We panicked and had lockdowns, infections plummeted. We slowly relaxed precautions, cases slowly climbed then soared. We locked down and wore masks, cases plummeted again. Now we're in Biden's freedom era, not that he had much choice.

    Currently, US fully vaccinated hovers below 50%. The original prognostications said we needed 70-80% vaxxed to stop the pandemic. We're short. If everyone returns to schools, worksites, bars, concerts, and dinner with friends, even Wuhan classic would thrive. I will not be surprised if Fall brings overflowing ICUs.
    It's not that simple--people get vaccinated and a month later cases fall.
    First of all--until delta came along, one vax was good protection. Second--the first people to get vaccinated were HCW;s and nursing home patients--the highest risk for contracting the virus and the most frequently tested. No doubt there have been changes in behavior that may influence rates but I don't believe there has been a significant change in behavior between the winter peak and the summer low. No doubt increase opening and decrease masks this summer have contributed to the rise in cases but not as much as delta. My guess is that without delta we would have seen a plateau, not a continued fall.

  6. #6631
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    Mar 2008
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    the ham
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    Quote Originally Posted by basinbeater View Post
    Yep. Many feel that way. And vote accordingly, universal health care is socialism they cry!

    But when they get sick from covid because they are also anti vax, well, all of sudden their tune changes.
    Yeah, Americans are only against socialism for others.

    Getting back to vaccines for a moment, an open question to the fully vaxxed collective: how comfortable are you in public places - especially indoors - mingling with the teeming masses?

    Where I am, everywhere other than medical facilities and restaurants, covid protocols have pretty much ended. Social distancing is a thing of the past, and mask usage is maybe ten percent.

    Are you confident that you're well enough protected by immunization to forego the mask while indoors with the unvaccinated?

  7. #6632
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    Nov 2011
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    Missoula
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Are you confident that you're well enough protected by immunization to forego the mask while indoors with the unvaccinated?
    Yes. And the data supports this. Way less dangerous than getting in the car at this point. Might go get another dose this fall just for fun!

  8. #6633
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    Dec 2008
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    Nashville TN
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    939
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Yeah, Americans are only against socialism for others.

    Getting back to vaccines for a moment, an open question to the fully vaxxed collective: how comfortable are you in public places - especially indoors - mingling with the teeming masses?

    Where I am, everywhere other than medical facilities and restaurants, covid protocols have pretty much ended. Social distancing is a thing of the past, and mask usage is maybe ten percent.

    Are you confident that you're well enough protected by immunization to forego the mask while indoors with the unvaccinated?
    I am. The vax isn’t 100 percent on preventing COVID but it’s pretty high and it’s even closer to 100 percent on preventing a serious infection. The inconvenience of wearing a mask, especially when the guys who are actually the ones who are spewing the virus aren’t wearing a mask, outweighs my concern about getting a serious case of COVID at this point. If I were higher risk I might reach a different conclusion, but mid50s w no other risk factors, that’s where I land. Plus I’m antisocial in general so that helps. My wife, who runs around hugging people, probably should wear a mask.

  9. #6634
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    Dec 2005
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    Ive been rollin without the mask now for a couple of months. I had my second dose of moderns back in early March. But we are rethinking the mask thing the last few days with all the delta news. I read in salt lake trib, that Utah has over 100 breakout cases of covid per day in fully vaccinated people. The cases are not severe, and rarely result in hospitalization, (I think it is like 95 or 99% unvaxxed showing up in hospitals) but we have young kids. So we are rethinking mask usage. We are also in an area of Utah that has the 2nd highest vac rate after park city (near the u). I suspect the next time Im out at a big store with a varied population, the mask is probably coming out.
    Fucking maga mouth breathing idiots. Fucking it up for everyone. That's how I feel.

    sent from Utah.
    sigless.

  10. #6635
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Alpental
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    6,224
    We stopped masking at work (those with full vaccination) just last week. My zip is >85% vaxxed, the city is >80%, the county nearing 75%.

    Not so worried about mingling with the unvaxxed masses with those kind of numbers locally.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  11. #6636
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    Oct 2003
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    slc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Getting back to vaccines for a moment, an open question to the fully vaxxed collective: how comfortable are you in public places - especially indoors - mingling with the teeming masses?
    Haven't given 1/100th of a fuck for two months.

  12. #6637
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    Oct 2004
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    50 miles E of Paradise
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    12,107
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Yeah, Americans are only against socialism for others.

    Getting back to vaccines for a moment, an open question to the fully vaxxed collective: how comfortable are you in public places - especially indoors - mingling with the teeming masses?

    Where I am, everywhere other than medical facilities and restaurants, covid protocols have pretty much ended. Social distancing is a thing of the past, and mask usage is maybe ten percent.

    Are you confident that you're well enough protected by immunization to forego the mask while indoors with the unvaccinated?
    As a fully vaxxed member of society, I take the position that the unvaxxed should FEAR ME!
    I can harbor the virus in my nasal passages without symptoms, and breathe my Fauci particles on them. Sorta like farting in their general direction.

    I haven't been inside a restaurant since before the pandemic, and have turned into a recluse since then. Outdoor dining and takeout work just fine for me.

  13. #6638
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    Feb 2009
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    I'm vaxed and masked at the market and in the kwicky marts at this time. Not doing indoor dining or casinos. Too many unmasked, unvaxed and unrepentant where I live. Hate to be the last one to get sick or die in this war.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  14. #6639
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    Jan 2015
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    1,629
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Haven't given 1/100th of a fuck for two months.
    To answer Ted's question, I suppose I give very approximately 1/100th of a fuck these days. I've eaten in restaurants and crowded shops recently, unmasked, some because other people dragged me there, and in a couple other cases, because I couldn't bear not to revisit an old favorite meal ritual. Oh, and because it was hot outside and air conditioning. So whatever. A lot of people around here have resumed mask wearing in supermarkets, and I haven't; if I see a couple of maskless employees, that's good enough for me.

    Picked up a car-full of smelly hitchhikers at a trailhead; chatted maskless for the next 40 miles; whatever.

    That said, I'd probably avoid more indoor crowd scenes now than I used to, if I didn't have a good reason to be in there.

  15. #6640
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    Nov 2008
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    6,771
    Had a brief period (2-3 weeks) where I felt comfortable going maskless unless required e.g. my local gym/rehab facility, but now I'm generally masking indoors again. I'm expecting things to deteriorate even further going into the Fall with Delta.

    Found myself getting nervous in my local CVS last week - no masks anywhere (in a place where people come when they're sick); this week, the pharmacists and customers were all masked, but not any one working the registers.

  16. #6641
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    I smell poutine!!!
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    I give a fuck for those folks who can't get vaccinated for various legitimate reasons. Which is why I prefer to say vaccine hostile vs unvaccinated. The only only way to protect those who are unable to get vaccinated is for everyone else to get vaccinated. Please join me in no longer saying unvaccinated when we mean vaccine hostile.

  17. #6642
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    Jan 2010
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    Fucking enraging that this country is being held hostage by assholes like this:
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  18. #6643
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post

    Getting back to vaccines for a moment, an open question to the fully vaxxed collective: how comfortable are you in public places - especially indoors - mingling with the teeming masses?
    Pretty much maskless here in Maine for anything outdoors and shopping trips in the middle of the New England area where vax % are good, except we're in the middle of touron season here so people are coming from all over.

    Haven't been fired up to eat inside, actually eating out blows these days cuz you need a reservation everywhere and places are short staffed. I live in a restaurant mecca and used to go out a couple times a week kinda last minute every time, the rez thing is making it easier to keep eating home and not spend a ton of cash.

    There's one indoor scene I want to go to but haven't yet. It's a small local club where a really good Dead band plays every Wednesday, great group of people who go every week but I guarantee out of 250 in the club there's gotta be easy 30-50 unvaxxed in there and those folks are going to shows and festivals left and right.

    Basically not buying tickets to any indoor shows just yet which other than gear is a category I spend a ton of money in annually. May start masking at grocery store if doing a big shop so in there for longer.

  19. #6644
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    Oct 2008
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    valley of the heart's delight
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    1,428
    I see very low case rates as an essential part of vaccines preventing infections. So, just as I'd be uncomfortable in a region with out of control measles, I'm uncomfortable in the current Covid environment. For awhile, we had no numbers on vax resistance to infection and onward transmission. The numbers coming out of Israel and UK aren't exactly encouraging (near as I can tell CDC is blind).

    There's also this high horse called 'elimination strategy' parked in my barn. Thinking he might prefer Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, or China though. Any time, we could start a 10-week lockdown, and end it... I'm having trouble accepting we've cursed ourselves.

  20. #6645
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    6,918
    i'm back to wearing my livinguard mask when in indoor areas for more than a few minutes. the livingguard mask is one of those types that supposed to provide protection to the wearer beyond that provided by a surgical mask.

    my rationale for masking: i live in a tourist community; my community is less than 50% vaxed, but most do not wear masks (which is changing); i have 2 unvaxed 11 year olds at home (one may fall into the high risk category); there's shit poor data about long covid for kids except that it is happening (flawed studies are apparently showing between 10-45%-ish kids get long covid if infected); delta variant has been found in our community since early June; our community seems to be having a surge; our county apparently sucks at contract tracing (they acknowledged at sucking at the end of the last surge); apparently (?), there's still little info about the probability of those that are vaxed and infected to be able to transmit delta to others (like their unvaxed children) - i'm aware that this data is available for some of the other variants.

    i'm not eating indoors.

    i was at the mobile mart in lee vining yesterday afternoon, which is a tourism hot spot ((tour buses now stop there). saw maybe one family other than mine wearing a mask while indoors (it was semi-packed inside - no tour bus). most of the employees were donning masks.

    anybody see this article (or similar) about the outdoor music festival in the netherlands that may have been a superspreader event? https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/15/musi...nfections.html

  21. #6646
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    6,029
    Apologies if this has been posted. But the amount of stupid on Fox is no longer mind boggling.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/fox-news-...212701012.html

    On Monday morning, "Fox & Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade defended people who do not want to get vaccinated. Kilmeade also argued it was not the government's job to prevent people from dying.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  22. #6647
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    I saw a reasonably done forecast that by end of August US week be at 500k new cases per day. Based on the trajectory of new cases in the uk and the 4-8 weeks lag in the us.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

  23. #6648
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    Nov 2003
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    Portland
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    I saw a reasonably done forecast that by end of August US week be at 500k new cases per day. Based on the trajectory of new cases in the uk and the 4-8 weeks lag in the us.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk
    Looks like we might level off around 1800 daily deaths: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...asting-us.html

    I guess that's until a variant starts killing the vaccinated or the unvaxxed die off.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  24. #6649
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    Looks like we might level off around 1800 daily deaths: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...asting-us.html

    I guess that's until a variant starts killing the vaccinated or the unvaxxed die off.
    Seems like new variants are a given.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  25. #6650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    Looks like we might level off around 1800 daily deaths: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...asting-us.html

    I guess that's until a variant starts killing the vaccinated or the unvaxxed die off.
    http://bonddad.blogspot.com/2021/07/...uk-as.html?m=1

    This one shows 4k deaths per day by mid October.

    Who knows though

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

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