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  1. #6601
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    [QUOTE=Kinnikinnick;6358177]Refuse available vaccine and get covid and you deserve every consequence. IMO that should include disqualification from health insurance, life insurance, medicare, etc. Die at home or go bankrupt for hospitalization:

    I agree with this as soon as we disqualify tobacco users.

  2. #6602
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    [QUOTE=bigdude2468;6358602]
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    Refuse available vaccine and get covid and you deserve every consequence. IMO that should include disqualification from health insurance, life insurance, medicare, etc. Die at home or go bankrupt for hospitalization:

    I agree with this as soon as we disqualify tobacco users.
    And drinkers. And people who eat like shit. And people who donít get enough sleep.

  3. #6603
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    Can we also recognize that leaving the unvaxxed to their own misguided future represents a huge potential financial liability for society. ER's, ventilators and therapeutics are unbelievably expensive and it would be wrong to assume that each patient pays their own way or has sufficient insurance coverage.

  4. #6604
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    [QUOTE=JimmyCarter;6358615]
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdude2468 View Post

    And drinkers. And people who eat like shit. And people who donít get enough sleep.
    Now you are intentionally eroding the point.

    Dont get vaxxed = dont get insured for the hospitalization costs.

    If you start adding lifestyle choices then the consequence would be so broad that it wont have the desired incentive.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  5. #6605
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckbucket View Post
    Can we also recognize that leaving the unvaxxed to their own misguided future represents a huge potential financial liability for society. ER's, ventilators and therapeutics are unbelievably expensive and it would be wrong to assume that each patient pays their own way or has sufficient insurance coverage.
    Agreed. And for the record I am very pro-vax. It still poses interesting questions regarding where we draw the line for compelling certain behaviors. Especially if we are using the "dollar cost to the public" argument.

  6. #6606
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Are you getting the one where the lady mispronounces "normalcy?" Drives me bonkers.

    All pronunciations of the word "normalcy" in this context are wrong (a malapropism). It's been pissing me off for 16 months and counting.
    Quote Originally Posted by digitaldeath View Post
    Hereís the dumbest person on tgr
    "What are you trying to say? I'm crazy? When I went to your ski schools, I went on your church trips, I went to your alpine race-training facilities? So how can you say I'm crazy?!"

  7. #6607
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    [QUOTE=Kinnikinnick;6358661]
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyCarter View Post

    Now you are intentionally eroding the point.

    Dont get vaxxed = dont get insured for the hospitalization costs.

    If you start adding lifestyle choices then the consequence would be so broad that it wont have the desired incentive.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Lot's of insurance plans already do this though. They don't phase it as a higher rate for unhealthy people. They give a "discount" if you link your fitbit, garmin, etc and meet fitness goals.

  8. #6608
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    The point is that society could wake up and say ďhey we donít want to insure your health costs related to your motorcycle accident because itís 27x more likely to result in a serious injury or deathĒ.

    Take you pick of other risky or not socially desirable activity. Skiing, mountaineering, etc

  9. #6609
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    Take you pick of other risky or not socially desirable activity. Skiing, mountaineering, etc
    The issue for these risky behaviors and smoking/obesity comparisons is that there isnít a two shot treatment that provides 90%+ reduction of risks for those activities. If there was a vaccine that eliminated 99% of deaths from wing suiting I bet insurance companies would require it for coverage.

  10. #6610
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    The point is that society could wake up and say “hey we don’t want to insure your health costs related to your motorcycle accident because it’s 27x more likely to result in a serious injury or death”.

    Take you pick of other risky or not socially desirable activity. Skiing, mountaineering, etc

    So be it. You feel kinship with others who want to offload their risk to society because you want to offload your own. Too bad. Accept the risks you create. That's what personal responsibility means and you can't keep a free society without assigning responsibility to those who are free to choose.

  11. #6611
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    The point is that society could wake up and say “hey we don’t want to insure your health costs related to your motorcycle accident because it’s 27x more likely to result in a serious injury or death”.

    Take you pick of other risky or not socially desirable activity. Skiing, mountaineering, etc
    Isn't that kind of the case with life insurance? Skyrocketing costs or straight up denials of coverage if you're into things such as skydiving.

  12. #6612
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckbucket View Post
    Can we also recognize that leaving the unvaxxed to their own misguided future represents a huge potential financial liability for society. ER's, ventilators and therapeutics are unbelievably expensive and it would be wrong to assume that each patient pays their own way or has sufficient insurance coverage.
    Versus what?

    Mandating vaccinations at the federal level?

    You argue against it without proffering any viable alternative to save society those same costs. Financial incentive to vax = 0


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  13. #6613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flounder View Post
    The issue for these risky behaviors and smoking/obesity comparisons is that there isnít a two shot treatment that provides 90%+ reduction of risks for those activities. If there was a vaccine that eliminated 99% of deaths from wing suiting I bet insurance companies would require it for coverage.
    Well, itís pretty easy to say ďwe arenít covering your care because you are a smoker, eat like shit, etcĒ but Iím pretty sure we just fought a huge political battle so we donít have to think about pre-existing conditions now.

    I mean, it incurring an injury skiing is easy. Just donít ski. Thatís 100% effective.

    (Iím 100% vaccinated by the way, I just think that this approach is highly unlikely to get the response you are looking for. You are just going to get stupid shit back like ďhealthcare insurers donít have to cover injuries incurred at a protestĒ etc)

  14. #6614
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    People are only interested in how much healthcare costs them. They could care less how much healthcare costs society.

  15. #6615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    Financial incentive to vax = 0
    Not sure I understand this comment. There's actually a very large societal incentive to vax as I explained. Just as there's an incentive to quit smoking. Maybe you mean something different? And I support the French model of "incentivizing" vaccination in order to engage in public because this avoids the dreaded "mandate" word and still gives people the freedum they desire. However, we all know red states will fight back on such a proposal with every idiotic bone in their body.

  16. #6616
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    Quote Originally Posted by CS2-6 View Post
    All pronunciations of the word "normalcy" in this context are wrong (a malapropism). It's been pissing me off for 16 months and counting.
    Seems like it's been used that way for the last century, so I think that definition is pretty entrenched into the English language at this point.

    (for the record the woman in the commercial pronounces it "nor-mal-a-see." She probably also refers to "ath-a-letes." )

  17. #6617
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Isn't that kind of the case with life insurance? Skyrocketing costs or straight up denials of coverage if you're into things such as skydiving.
    Comparing life insurance with health insurance on any level is inappropriate. One is essential and the other is a luxury.

  18. #6618
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckbucket View Post
    Not sure I understand this comment. There's actually a very large societal incentive to vax as I explained. Just as there's an incentive to quit smoking. Maybe you mean something different? And I support the French model of "incentivizing" vaccination in order to engage in public because this avoids the dreaded "mandate" word and still gives people the freedum they desire. However, we all know red states will fight back on such a proposal with every idiotic bone in their body.
    ďSocietal incentive?Ē You mean social pressure? Thats precisely the opposite of the antisocial Behavior that defines the unvaxxed. Only afraid of the chance of side effect on themselves or in full frontal obstinate resistance to doing whats right for society.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  19. #6619
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    Arkansas for example has forbidden healthcare providers from requiring employees get vaccinated until 2 years after the vaccines are fully approved. Two years. What are the odds you get any traction if you try to force it via financial incentives?

  20. #6620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    “Societal incentive?” You mean social pressure? Thats precisely the opposite of the antisocial Behavior that defines the unvaxxed. Only afraid of the chance of side effect on themselves or in full frontal obstinate resistance to doing whats right for society.
    As I said, we should have national laws that prevent the unvaccinated from mingling in high-density locations. So not social pressure but actual laws.

    You think the unvaxxed are anti-social? It's pretty clear that rising case rates across the country, but specifically in regions where vaccination rates are lower disproves this.

  21. #6621
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckbucket View Post
    Comparing life insurance with health insurance on any level is inappropriate. One is essential and the other is a luxury.
    Ok. Fair enough. With health insurance though, doesn't one typically pay higher premiums if they're a smoker/drinker?

  22. #6622
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckbucket View Post
    As I said, we should have national laws that prevent the unvaccinated from mingling in high-density locations. So not social pressure but actual laws.

    You think the unvaxxed are anti-social? It's pretty clear that rising case rates across the country, but specifically in regions where vaccination rates are lower disproves this.
    Anti social behavior doesnt mean that they dont socialize, thats Asocial behavior

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-social_behaviour


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  23. #6623
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Ok. Fair enough. With health insurance though, doesn't one typically pay higher premiums if they're a smoker/drinker?
    Of course. There are tiered levels of insurability based on lifestyle and a full-on health exam including blood tests.
    Proposing such a thing for health insurance is extremely complicated. For example, how could fairly distinguish between predisposing conditions versus lifestyle habits in order to adjust cost? That's one of 50 issues although I'm sure health insurance companies have been probing this concept for a long, long time as a means of dropping high-risk clients.

  24. #6624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    Anti social behavior doesnt mean that they dont socialize, thats Asocial behavior

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-social_behaviour


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Right. My comment still stands. Can't be social pressure alone.

  25. #6625
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckbucket View Post
    Comparing life insurance with health insurance on any level is inappropriate. One is essential and the other is a luxury.
    Both products use actuarial data to insure profitability. And I have seen both life and health insurance described as luxury products. Which do you see as a luxury?
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

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