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  1. #6526
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    Jan 2009
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    1,997
    Canada will pass the USA in fully vaccinated % of population tomorrow. Germany, Italy, France will do the same soon.

    Perhaps the Delta spread will convince the unvaxxed to get their shit together.

  2. #6527
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Alpental
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulster2626 View Post
    Canada will pass the USA in fully vaccinated % of population tomorrow. Germany, Italy, France will do the same soon.

    Perhaps the Delta spread will convince the unvaxxed to get their shit together.
    Not likely anything will budge the culture wars unfortunately.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  3. #6528
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    Shadynasty's Jazz Club
    Posts
    9,729

    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    Suck it up a little longer? What a load. This country needs to protect its citizens and stop pandering to the morons that are putting us and our kids at risk.

    Doesnít effects kids?

    https://people.com/health/7-children...delta-variant/

    Iíve said this before but whatís the threshold for deciding to put your kids at risk, particularly in a country where reliable stats are slow and sparse? Obviously itís different for everyone, but weíre not willing to take the risk. Weíll just continue to hole up and pretend that itís going to eventually get better.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  4. #6529
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    20,371
    The right wing nuts should be recruited to "militia training camps" in Idaho and Montana, once they're all in there lock the gates, spray and make them get shots to get out.

  5. #6530
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    Nov 2005
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    7,375
    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    Not likely anything will budge the culture wars unfortunately.
    They are switching the definition of "culture" though, so maybe Planck will be right a little sooner.

  6. #6531
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    I can still smell Poutine.
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    19,261
    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    The problem with putting masks on the vulnerable and no one else is that masks work Much better when they're worn by the infected than they do as protection for the uninfected. Take what you can get, obviously, but masking only the vulnerable is not as much protection as if the restrictions applied to everyone.

    Kids were good about masking. Let's not underestimate their vulnerability based on the results of better behavior. The answer, especially for kids and especially since the idiot parents are going to ramp up the stupid, is this:
    I see a metric shit ton of unmasked kids everywhere I go. I was down in NH and MA for an AAU basketball tournament last weekend and probably saw a grand total of two masked under 12s. I saw more elderly people masked than masked kids. I even saw a few double maskers.

  7. #6532
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    10,083
    Quote Originally Posted by paulster2626 View Post
    Canada will pass the USA in fully vaccinated % of population tomorrow. Germany, Italy, France will do the same soon.

    Perhaps the Delta spread will convince the unvaxxed to get their shit together.
    ...

  8. #6533
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    EWA
    Posts
    21,276
    Treating the Unvaccinated

    In Utah, and across the U.S., doctors are facing a wave of preventable COVID deaths—and trying to convince the hesitant that “it doesn’t have to be this way.”


    Despite a looming fourth wave of COVID-19 in the United States, many people are still refusing vaccinations. “It’s like riding a motorcycle without a helmet.“ one critical-care physician said. “The wake-up call always comes too late.”
    ďWhen you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkiní Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  9. #6534
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    valley of the heart's delight
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    1,742
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Can someone tell me again why Canada should open the border ?
    1 Verify that vaccination works well
    2 Increase spread to the unvaxxed so they get natural immunity sooner*
    3 Maple syrup sales

    If you're going to make it to community immunity (herd immunity) level of protection, maybe at least wait until vaccinations trail off. Give everyone a chance to develop immunity who wants it. Even then, you might restrict crossing to vaxxed Americans and/or PCR-negative too (it's looking like the vaxxed can transmit somewhat). The vaccine doesn't protect everyone, so allowing infected people in increases risk to those who can't mount a strong immune response (oldsters, immune compromised, organ transplants, etc).

    * If you're considering the "let's get everyone sick" strategy, keep an eye on England for the next few weeks. They are opening. Cases are rapidly climbing. Watch what happens with hospitalizations and death over the next month.

  10. #6535
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Santiago Chile
    Posts
    1,405
    The Sinovac vaccine is finally doing it for Chile, at the worst time of the year (winter). With 74% of adults fully vaxxed, and about 60% of the total pop., cases and positivity are falling fast.

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    The bright side of that is the ski areas are open, even on weekends, fully vaxxed only, thanks.

    US, UK, and Israel cases continue to rise. UK looks scariest
    Boris Johnson’s policy poses ‘danger to the world’, as cases soar past 50,000 a day
    .

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/c...-b1885144.html

    My niece in London (and her friends) got the Delta, and is recovering ok, but hospitalizations in general are rising.

    Vaccination rates:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #6536
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    Treating the Unvaccinated

    In Utah, and across the U.S., doctors are facing a wave of preventable COVID deaths—and trying to convince the hesitant that “it doesn’t have to be this way.”


    Despite a looming fourth wave of COVID-19 in the United States, many people are still refusing vaccinations. “It’s like riding a motorcycle without a helmet.“ one critical-care physician said. “The wake-up call always comes too late.”
    The same people who won't get vaccinations or wear masks only wear helmets to keep from getting tickets. And sometimes not even then, If we can force people to wear helmets--which doesn't protect anyone but the rider (except financially)--we can do the same for vaccinations.

    A reminder, since several people mentioned herd immunity--previous infection will not produce herd immunity as one of our experts has pointed out. Only vaccination will do that.

  12. #6537
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    I can still smell Poutine.
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    19,261
    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    1 Verify that vaccination works well
    2 Increase spread to the unvaxxed so they get natural immunity sooner*
    3 Maple syrup sales

    If you're going to make it to community immunity (herd immunity) level of protection, maybe at least wait until vaccinations trail off. Give everyone a chance to develop immunity who wants it. Even then, you might restrict crossing to vaxxed Americans and/or PCR-negative too (it's looking like the vaxxed can transmit somewhat). The vaccine doesn't protect everyone, so allowing infected people in increases risk to those who can't mount a strong immune response (oldsters, immune compromised, organ transplants, etc).

    * If you're considering the "let's get everyone sick" strategy, keep an eye on England for the next few weeks. They are opening. Cases are rapidly climbing. Watch what happens with hospitalizations and death over the next month.
    I got better maple syrup right here at home.

  13. #6538
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    27,259
    Canada produces 75% of the worlds maple syrup

    USA just produces more dead Americans
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  14. #6539
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    Dec 2012
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    I can still smell Poutine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Canada produces 75% of the worlds maple syrup

    USA just produces more dead Americans
    Ya, well I live in VT and we produce the best maple syrup.

  15. #6540
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    the ham
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    11,589
    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    Ya, well I live in VT and we produce the best maple syrup.
    Upstate?

  16. #6541
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Missoula
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    337
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    The same people who won't get vaccinations or wear masks only wear helmets to keep from getting tickets. And sometimes not even then, If we can force people to wear helmets--which doesn't protect anyone but the rider (except financially)--we can do the same for vaccinations.
    How? You going to literally show up to their house and strap them down? You can make peoples lives inconvenient, but you can't force them. And personally, I would find that incredibly authoritarian.

    In rural MT there's not a lot of helmet or seat-belt wearing either. These people sure as fuck arn't gonna be forced to get a vax by the gubmit and if you try to make businesses enforce it for entry, that shit ain't happening out here either.

  17. #6542
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    Infect them all and let god sort it out
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #6543
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    7,375
    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    I see a metric shit ton of unmasked kids everywhere I go. I was down in NH and MA for an AAU basketball tournament last weekend and probably saw a grand total of two masked under 12s. I saw more elderly people masked than masked kids. I even saw a few double maskers.
    Same here. Note the past tense in my statement. The word around here from young school kids was that they were fine with masks back when they had to wear them. Nobody still does, but the data on how safe kids are is heavily influenced from earlier times. Damn shame if we don't manage to take this chance to curtail their usual vectoring.
    A woman came up to me and said "I'd like to poison your mind
    with wrong ideas that appeal to you, though I am not unkind."

  19. #6544
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,557
    I was messaging with a friend in Sidney last night. The delta variant apparently spread faster than their contract tracing system could handle and they are in a pretty severe lockdown with a $3,000 fine if youíre caught breaking the rules.

  20. #6545
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
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    16,829
    Ski with no helmet

    Raw dog feels good

  21. #6546
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    1,217
    Does federal OSHA have any ability to require precautions or density reductions if employers donít have X percentage of their workforce vaccinated?

    IE - you have to reduce the density in your factory to X unless you have 70/80/90 percent vaccinated.

    I donít think anything changes unless those states get overrun.

    But with the governors in certain states actively working against increasing the vaccination rate I doubt anything changes.

  22. #6547
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    14,379
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Upstate?
    Close, but not quite as cool

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

  23. #6548
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    16,544
    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    I was messaging with a friend in Sidney last night. The delta variant apparently spread faster than their contract tracing system could handle and they are in a pretty severe lockdown with a $3,000 fine if youíre caught breaking the rules.
    It's because AstraZeneca doesn't work very well against the Delta variant correct? And Australia's leaned heavily on that vaccine it looks like.

    Chile, that's interesting. Maybe Sinovac works better than folks thought? or the Delta variant just hasn't hit South America that hard yet?
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  24. #6549
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    valley of the heart's delight
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    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    I got better maple syrup right here at home.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Canada produces 75% of the worlds maple syrup

    USA just produces more dead Americans
    WW3 starts here

    Forgot to mention... if a population is not going to reach herd immunity through vaccination, the eventual reopening will cause rising cases. Once vaccination tails off there's some argument to let it rip. Maybe balanced against a future therapeutic, if we think we'll get a good one. Also vaccinating kids - if we decide not to do that, we're deciding to let them all get infected (which is the safer approach if Covid effects are less than vax effects, and we consider only the kids' health). Just a matter of how fast we allow the unvaxxed to get infected, most all of them eventually will.

    So easy to vaccinate (or isolate) a herd of animals. So hard to do the same for humans.

  25. #6550
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    valley of the heart's delight
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    It's because AstraZeneca doesn't work very well against the Delta variant correct? And Australia's leaned heavily on that vaccine it looks like.

    Chile, that's interesting. Maybe Sinovac works better than folks thought? or the Delta variant just hasn't hit South America that hard yet?
    So far, human behavior changes drive infection more than vaccination. Israel, UK, US have relatively high vax rates, all have rising cases. You could almost claim the vaccines don't work, though hospitalizations are 99% unvaxxed showing they do work.

    It is possible Sinovac is better at preventing spread, but it's probably more restrictions (or good behavior). There's a few studies looking well the various vaccines prevent infection or spread. I've not followed many - the numbers aren't as good as the efficacy vs severe disease.

    Aussies are way behind on vaccinating. They are trying the Kiwi full suppression strategy but have a (tiny compared to other countries) delta outbreak.
    10/01/2012 Site was upgraded to 300 baud.

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