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  1. #5601
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Has the sore arm issue been addressed in the thread? I've heard the same thing from so many people and had it myself. Never experienced anything like it from a needle of any any kind.
    It's the magnet. You'll get used to it.

  2. #5602
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Has the sore arm issue been addressed in the thread? I've heard the same thing from so many people and had it myself. Never experienced anything like it from a needle of any any kind.
    mrs ::: ::: had such a sore arm, i helped her dress the day after shot 2
    it did go away within 24 hrs
    I didn't get it, just the flu-y overall dull hangover feeling

  3. #5603
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    My arm was pretty sore after Pfizer #2 but I went golfing the next day and that helped immensely.

  4. #5604
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    Some more info on the Yankees' cases and some other interesting ideas on PCRs vs antigen tests.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021...-outbreak.html

  5. #5605
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    Dec 2010
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    EU travel is about to open up to those with vaccinations! Already booked a trip to Italy next year. Maybe go back to Germany this year? Flash that card to go? Come on Canada...we aren't all idiots here, let us back in! Lol

  6. #5606
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    My arm was pretty sore after Pfizer #2 but I went golfing the next day and that helped immensely.
    The golf helped your sore arm, or your sore arm helped your golf?

  7. #5607
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    EU travel is about to open up to those with vaccinations! Already booked a trip to Italy next year. Maybe go back to Germany this year? Flash that card to go? Come on Canada...we aren't all idiots here, let us back in! Lol
    What are they going to require as proof? The joke paper card?

  8. #5608
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    My arm was pretty sore after Pfizer #2 but I went golfing the next day and that helped immensely.
    I can assure you there's no way I could golf right now. It feels like I have a broken arm.

  9. #5609
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    EU travel is about to open up to those with vaccinations! Already booked a trip to Italy next year. Maybe go back to Germany this year? Flash that card to go? Come on Canada...we aren't all idiots here, let us back in! Lol
    Just 46.9% of us.

  10. #5610
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    Sep 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkendrenchman View Post
    Some more info on the Yankees' cases and some other interesting ideas on PCRs vs antigen tests.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021...-outbreak.html
    That's really interesting, thanks.

    I look forward to Austin completely misunderstanding it and mangling the conclusions drawn in the article.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  11. #5611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    That's really interesting, thanks.

    I look forward to Austin completely misunderstanding it and mangling the conclusions drawn in the article.
    Yea, I thought it was going to be a quick article about the Yankees, but it just kept going and getting more interesting.

  12. #5612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    What are they going to require as proof? The joke paper card?

    Nanochip scan, silly.

  13. #5613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    That's really interesting, thanks.

    I look forward to Austin completely misunderstanding it and mangling the conclusions drawn in the article.
    Can I try?

    PCR is completely useless.

    How’s that?
    . . .

  14. #5614
    Join Date
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    I haven't unfollowed this particular idiot on FB because he periodically brings the gold. His friends, apparently, are also morons.

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    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  15. #5615
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    I haven't unfollowed this particular idiot on FB because he periodically brings the gold. His friends, apparently, are also morons.
    Alas, that could be my daughters page...
    I continue to follow her, for the family stuff.
    It is really hard not to fact check each of her other posts. I have learned that it is better to shake my head and scroll down.

  16. #5616
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Has the sore arm issue been addressed in the thread? I've heard the same thing from so many people and had it myself. Never experienced anything like it from a needle of any any kind.
    That was it for me with both shots. Second time was worse but neither lasted more than 36 hours.

  17. #5617
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    The golf helped your sore arm, or your sore arm helped your golf?
    The golf helped my sore arm.

  18. #5618
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkendrenchman View Post
    Some more info on the Yankees' cases and some other interesting ideas on PCRs vs antigen tests.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021...-outbreak.html
    It's going to get interesting when Americans start going to Europe and the CDC is requiring a negative test before they're allowed to return.

  19. #5619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    Isn't it 66% effective at preventing symptomatic infection, rather than infection at all? In the case of the Yankees it's exactly what you would expect, especially given how often these athletes are being tested. IMO
    I know it’s been a few days, but I did want to acknowledge that you’re correct, “effective” relates to weather you get symptomatic illness. But that makes it at least as likely to get caught in a PCR test. If they had used one of the mRNA vaccines, it would have much less likely caught by the test.

    J &J made the choice of being the cheap, convenient vaccine for the masses. There were studies that showed increased “effectiveness” with a 2 shot regimen compared to a single shot, but they went with single shot for the reasons stated above.

    But, not a problem, the J&J vax is pretty good at reducing serious illness and deaths. Just don’t expect it to do well in a highly tested environment.

  20. #5620
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    J&J is more effective at preventing severe/critical illness >4 weeks after inoculation vs 2. If you get into the data, J&J is quite a bit more effective 6-8 weeks after inoculation where it is competitive with mRNA vaccine efficacy... (of course mRNA efficacy data is was measured 5-6 weeks after the first dose).

    But for whatever reason (simplicity? realism?) they've chose "2 weeks after you last dose" as the metric for "fully vaccinated."
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  21. #5621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    J&J is more effective at preventing severe/critical illness >4 weeks after inoculation vs 2. If you get into the data, J&J is quite a bit more effective 6-8 weeks after inoculation where it is competitive with mRNA vaccine efficacy... (of course mRNA efficacy data is was measured 5-6 weeks after the first dose).
    Huh. That's interesting. The long term data on this stuff is going to be fascinating to track. What if it ends up that the J&J (more like a "traditional" vaccine, right?) ends up trending up for long term efficacy, and the mRNA vaccines end up trending down over the long term, and they end up crossing paths with the J&J being most effective and the Moderna/Pfizer shots being worthless after a period of time without boosters. Only time will tell I suppose. Will be interesting to see what's up in year 0 + 1, 2, 3...

  22. #5622
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    What if it ends up that the J&J (more like a "traditional" vaccine, right?) ends up trending up for long term efficacy, and the mRNA vaccines end up trending down over the long term, and they end up crossing paths with the J&J being most effective and the Moderna/Pfizer shots being worthless after a period of time without boosters.
    No, I wouldn't call J&J more like a "traditional" vaccine. It's a viral vector vaccine. It uses a modified virus to deliver DNA to a cell where it then generates mRNA that creates the spike protein for the immune system to target. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines use a lipid particle to deliver mRNA to generate spike protein for the immune system to train against. Given that information, it seems unlikely that Pfizer/Moderna efficacy would decrease over the long term vs J&J. I was mostly speaking to the oft quoted "66%" J&J efficacy seeming much lower in comparison to mRNA because the timeframes of comparison were much different (there are also differences in time, variant prevalence, and case severity groupings that make the efficacy from Phase III harder to compare).

    "Traditional" vaccine are more like those that use attenuated or inactivated virus, like the ChiCom company Sinovac's CoronaVac vaccine that has really crappy efficacy (<50%). For this type of vaccine you have to make the virus inactive (so that you don't get the disease) without also destroying immune targets you want to train against (the spike proteins on the virus). You also have to make sure you don't have the problems you get with with real infection such as harmful immune reactions or training the immune system against the wrong targets. The "traditional" inactivated vaccine is "dirtier" in that you are placing a lot more wildcards into the whole process.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  23. #5623
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    Aug 2020
    Posts
    1,218
    My arm has hurt in a similar way with every vaccination I have received as an adult, particularly my tetanus booster.

    This wasn’t any worse.

    Moving it often helped a lot. Swimming motion, in and out, up and down, etc

  24. #5624
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    Apr 2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Huh. That's interesting. The long term data on this stuff is going to be fascinating to track. What if it ends up that the J&J (more like a "traditional" vaccine, right?) ends up trending up for long term efficacy, and the mRNA vaccines end up trending down over the long term, and they end up crossing paths with the J&J being most effective and the Moderna/Pfizer shots being worthless after a period of time without boosters. Only time will tell I suppose. Will be interesting to see what's up in year 0 + 1, 2, 3...
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    No, I wouldn't call J&J more like a "traditional" vaccine. It's a viral vector vaccine. It uses a modified virus to deliver DNA to a cell where it then generates mRNA that creates the spike protein for the immune system to target. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines use a lipid particle to deliver mRNA to generate spike protein for the immune system to train against. Given that information, it seems unlikely that Pfizer/Moderna efficacy would decrease over the long term vs J&J. I was mostly speaking to the oft quoted "66%" J&J efficacy seeming much lower in comparison to mRNA because the timeframes of comparison were much different (there are also differences in time, variant prevalence, and case severity groupings that make the efficacy from Phase III harder to compare).

    "Traditional" vaccine are more like those that use attenuated or inactivated virus, like the ChiCom company Sinovac's CoronaVac vaccine that has really crappy efficacy (<50%). For this type of vaccine you have to make the virus inactive (so that you don't get the disease) without also destroying immune targets you want to train against (the spike proteins on the virus). You also have to make sure you don't have the problems you get with with real infection such as harmful immune reactions or training the immune system against the wrong targets. The "traditional" inactivated vaccine is "dirtier" in that you are placing a lot more wildcards into the whole process.
    To make a simpler compairson for MF: it's two different wrappings for presents. The J&J is a gift wrapped in a box with wrapping paper and the Pfizer/Moderna is just a gift bag with some tissue paper. Both contain the same present as far as your body is concerned, but the delivery method and unwrapping is different.

    The efficacy differences are not worth comparing one to the next. The tests were performed on different people, in different countries which had different amounts of different variants floating around. The J&J trials faced the most kinds of variants while Pfizer/Moderna didn't. You can't compare their efficacy percentages because they didn't take the same test. It's like saying Pfizer got 95% on their math test and J&J got 66% on the Princeton entrance exam. They're not comparable scores.
    Wait, how can we trust this guy^^^ He's clearly not DJSapp

  25. #5625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not DJSapp View Post
    To make a simpler compairson for MF: it's two different wrappings for presents. The J&J is a gift wrapped in a box with wrapping paper and the Pfizer/Moderna is just a gift bag with some tissue paper. Both contain the same present as far as your body is concerned, but the delivery method and unwrapping is different.
    It's like you're explaining this to a 5yo.


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