3D Printed Skin Tail Clips - What Material Should I Use?

[rfconroy]

Alright folks, the stock tail clips that came with my skins were pretty sub-par. Therefore I took the opportunity to knock off the design from Ski Skins Direct, and print some out. They came out pretty good, and seem to work much better than the stock ones.




So the question is: What material should I print in for actual use on? Keep in mind, this part will ultimately be used on long tours. While I've prototyped in PLA, I am thinking of either printing in PC or ABS, to have a good combination of impact and tensile strength. My original thought was to print in PC, but I am concerned on how easily the support material will break away from the model. Lastly, I also have the ability to use PETG.

Lastly, there is some precedent to this, as the Daymaker touring adapter has some printed parts in it. Does anyone happen to know what material those are made out of?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Muggydude]

PETG won't hold up well outdoors. PC might be a little brittle, I'd probably go ABS

[ExPowderSnob]

the Formlabs Form 3 has some really high strength materials that aren't supposed to get brittle in the cold... Their website actually has some decent info....

[HAB]

PETG won't hold up well outdoors. PC might be a little brittle, I'd probably go ABS

Seconded.

[adrenalated]

PETG won't hold up well outdoors.

Elaborate? All of the info I've read about PETG is that it is stable to both UV exposure and high/low temperatures. It also prints really well so I'd think it would be a good choice.

FWIW - I 3D printed some ski racks for my snowmobile out of PETG. Only one day using them, but I beat them pretty hard on some roads that were severely whooped out and they didn't break. Will need a lot more time to confirm durability and longevity though.

[burrito]

My first instinct is a nylon, maybe PA6 or PA12, which will perform better in varied temperatures and have better flex than ABS. I'm not sure if FDM machines (which looks like what you're using) have nylon spools available, though. I've had good luck ordering from 3dhubs.com - SLS PA12.

[XXX-er]

you are gona beat the shit out of any climbing skin by walking on them ... my first instinct is metal

[Muggydude]

PETG has great UV resistance, but it is prone to water absorption, which can significantly degrade its strength and deform parts over time if they're exposed to moisture a lot (i.e. snow). ABS is great in cold and has low moisture absorption, but does degrade in UV over time, albeit slowly. I think moisture is more of a problem than UV for skin clips.

That being said, I'm not sure what PETG filaments they're making now, and f they have ones that are less prone to moisture absorption after an object is printed. They also make UV resistant ABS filaments I'd assume.

[rod9301]

I would like a pair

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[adrenalated]

PETG has great UV resistance, but it is prone to water absorption, which can significantly degrade its strength and deform parts over time if they're exposed to moisture a lot (i.e. snow). ABS is great in cold and has low moisture absorption, but does degrade in UV over time, albeit slowly. I think moisture is more of a problem than UV for skin clips.

Thanks for the clarification!

Doing a bit of reading now - my initial understanding is that the loss of strength in wet PETG is primarily due to hydrolysis, which is caused by the combination of moisture in the material AND high temperatures, causing the breakdown of the polymer chains. In other words, printing wet PETG yields a very brittle print. But under normal temperatures, this would not be an issue.

Or am I missing something here? I'm not super knowledgeable about the material properties of thermoplastics.

[Muggydude]

I think you’re right- there’s something about drying out filament before printing which is more of an issue, rather than water absorption after, although I’d still think water absorption could be an issue. Water from Cold snow isn’t necessarily easy to absorb though.

I haven’t done much PETG printing in a while though, so I’m not sure what the material properties after printing are these days

TBH for something like this, I honestly think most printing materials would be fine


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[ExPowderSnob]

you are gona beat the shit out of any climbing skin by walking on them ... my first instinct is metal

Want some super cheap aluminum sheet metal cut parts? sendcutsend.com You could cut these in thin aluminum, and probably make a clever way to bend them in your garage with some plywood...

It would probably be cheaper too

[rfconroy]

I would like a pair

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Shoot me a PM, and I can figure out how to get you some. One thing to note - tail thickness seems to be a factor, so different thicknesses will need different slot sizes.





Also found this from one of my favorite youtube channels last night:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0JV...nel=CNCKitchen

So I think I am going to try printing in PC, although the backup plan will probably be to print in ABS. I'll let folks know how it goes once I get on snow. I will also upload the model to Thingiverse once complete, and tested.

The caveat I have with PC is that it's clear, so I think I will need to hit it with a light coat of paint when finished to have more contrast with the snow if anything is broken.

[rod9301]

Actually, i have pomoca skins and these seem very similar to the pomoca.

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[gregorys]

Use ASA, not ABS. (ABS is not good in UV)
PETG may well work fine, from what I've read. (Good UV durability. Plus it's pretty flexible/less brittle, so it might survive better.)

But all I know about filament selection (at least for outdoors) is from reading, not actual real-world use - so YMMV.

And ASA/ABS/PETG all have issues with water absorption. But I don't think that has any bearing after printing.

[rfconroy]

Use ASA, not ABS. (ABS is not good in UV)
PETG may well work fine, from what I've read. (Good UV durability. Plus it's pretty flexible/less brittle, so it might survive better.)

But all I know about filament selection (at least for outdoors) is from reading, not actual real-world use - so YMMV.

And ASA/ABS/PETG all have issues with water absorption. But I don't think that has any bearing after printing.

I've got black ABS so UV isnt an issue. Printed some initial samples in PC, and it was a total PITA to remove the support material. Since I am still making some fine adjustments on the geometry, im going to test out with PLA on the end and see how easy they break.

Does anyone know what what material is used on the Daymaker touring frames?

[abraham]

Isn't it one of the filaments with carbon fibers chopped up and mixed in for strength? I might be misremembering.

[rfconroy]

Isn't it one of the filaments with carbon fibers chopped up and mixed in for strength? I might be misremembering.

That CNC kitchen guy did some testing on those types of filaments, and it seemed like diminishing returns. Also, dont have that material, nor do I want to print a bunch of chopped carbon fibers so I dont get:



I also just tested the current design and it seems to work with G3 tail clips too. I'd need to make some adjustments to work with Pomoca, and BD. However, those changes should be quick.

Anyone want to try these bad boys out? Yall think I could make some money selling these stupid things?

[adrenalated]

Anyone want to try these bad boys out?

I would give Pomoca and BD versions a try and give you feedback. I can print them myself, would only need design files.

[riff]

I’d test drive some too, i mostly use Pomoca


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[rfconroy]

I would give Pomoca and BD versions a try and give you feedback. I can print them myself, would only need design files.

Let me make the mods tonight, and test them out on the appropriate designs.

Once finished, I'll generate a Thingiverse link for them.

[rfconroy]

Let me make the mods tonight, and test them out on the appropriate designs.

Once finished, I'll generate a Thingiverse link for them.

Finally got around to making the modifications for BD and Pomoca, and uploaded them onto that page. Havent been able to test, but maybe some other people can give them a try.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4682896

[adrenalated]

Finally got around to making the modifications for BD and Pomoca, and uploaded them onto that page. Havent been able to test, but maybe some other people can give them a try.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4682896

Nice. I'll print some and give them a try and report back on what I think.

[jtb]

I have some 3D printed parts on my bindings. I use nylon (PA12) or steel. The nylon seems to hold up well in cold, wet, high-stress environments, but I'm not sure I'd trust it for that bend around the tail. I would carry spares or print in steel.

[Core Shot]

I didn’t know 3D printing in steel was possible for average folks.