How many of you are riding plus (+) bikes?

**toast2266** · 12-03-2020, 11:06 PM

I'm just curious. There was a lot of hype about it a few years ago, and there were a bunch of people in here that were big fans. But I don't see many people riding plus bikes these days - the industry seems to have moved on. But maybe that's just my narrow view of the situation, since I basically don't get to leave my little bubble anymore.

I'm defining plus bikes as having 2.7 to 3.0 tires. Bigger is a fat bike. Smaller is a regular bike.

**D(C)** · 12-03-2020, 11:17 PM

I'm not riding a plus bike, but a buddy just gave me a 29 x 2.6 DHF that I tried for a ride. Compared to the 2.5, it just feels rounder and bites less hard in corners, with no added forgiveness. I don't really see the benefits, even for beginners. I was running it at 22 psi on a 30 mm rim, so maybe it needs less pressure on a wider rim to come alive.

**sethschmautz** · 12-03-2020, 11:26 PM

I rode a Trek Stache (29+ with 3") for a good chunk of the summer. It is my first plus bike and really enjoy it. I gravitated more toward my Hightower as the year progressed but I had a lot of fun on that bike and can't bring myself to sell it quite yet. It is lighter and a better climber than the HT and holds it's own on descents. I found I could run some pretty fast rolling tires (XR2) with similar grip to my DHF/Aggressor on my HT. I also did a bike packing overnight with my son and feel like it will be a good bike for riding as the kids grow up and get some more singletrack experience.

I'm trying to figure out if it makes any sense to sell the fat bike and put a set of studs on the Stache for winter riding since I don't love soft singletrack.

There seems to be a pretty solid Stache following on FB but Trek just abandoned that ship. There is rumor that tires are going to be hard to find soon also.

Seth

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**gravitylover** · 12-04-2020, 06:17 AM

I prefer 2.8-3 over pretty much everything else now especially on hardtails.

**Bushwacka** · 12-04-2020, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by D(C)

I'm not riding a plus bike, but a buddy just gave me a 29 x 2.6 DHF that I tried for a ride. Compared to the 2.5, it just feels rounder and bites less hard in corners, with no added forgiveness. I don't really see the benefits, even for beginners. I was running it at 22 psi on a 30 mm rim, so maybe it needs less pressure on a wider rim to come alive.

yes you do.

I ran 2.6 Specialized tires all this summer and they fucking rocked on a 35mm internal rim but would AWFUL on a 29mm internal rim.

I am 190lb and on my 29er hardtail with a 35mm rim I could run as low as 18 psi front (grid trail) and 15 psi rear (BLCK DIAMOND) and the bike simply felt it has claws in the ground on any surface and cornering speed was insane.

So I bought some 2.6 specialized tire for my 160/140 27.5 with 29mm internal rim and ugh. The bike simply felt like it want to drift everywhere really wasnt fun or confidence inspiring to ride. I put 2.3 inch widths of the same tires on it, and it was again great to ride, good cornering speed but not as good as the 29er. Right at the end of the year I built up a set of 35mm internal rims for my 27.5 FS and put 2.6 inch tires back on it now had all the benefit of the My Nimble 9 running 35mm rims and 2.6 tires. on my Trance SX With the 35mm rims on 2.6 BLCK DMND front and rear I am running 19 psi front and rear.

IMO the wide rim, stiff tire and the ability to run a low pressure seem to work well for me, the sidewall do not roll over(I ride almost all hand built trail, very little machine built) and the shock absorbation and grip while cornering is just crazy good, climbing again my hardtail feel like it has some rear suspension.

I should add I have rode 2.5 WT maxxis tires on my 29mm internal rims and they seem to work really well but IMO the Specialized 2.6s or Maxxis 2.6 need 35mm internal to even be in the realm of fun.

I think alot of the hate of the 2.6-2.8 inch tires is coming from simply not being put a on a rim wide enough.

I used to own a Krampus which was a great bike for western PA single track riding but at the time there wasnt a burly enough tire to even ride Rocky XC tire for it.

**scrublover** · 12-04-2020, 08:05 AM

On my hardtail. 2.8" rear. 3" front.

Played around with various 2.6-3" tires on the trail bike and felt the positives didn't outweigh the negatives when paired with 5-6" of front and rear suspension. Keeping that bike with 2.3-2.5" tires. On a mix of 29mm - 30mm rims on the trail bike, 35mm on the hardtail.

Of course it all depends on how/where you ride.

**Eluder** · 12-04-2020, 08:55 AM

On our hardtails that we sell customers predominantly want the midfats, so that is how we offer them. That being said I do get request to swap them out for regular tires. I honestly think it greatly depends on where and how you ride a bike.

**ticketchecker** · 12-04-2020, 09:19 AM

^^ pretty much all of what Scrub said, FS with plus tires was numb.

Rocking a new Karate Monkey with 2.8r / 3.0fr tires on 36id rims right now, pretty nice setup for Fall/wet conditions. Just got a set of Wrathchild 3.0 studs for it as I sold the fatbike but still want to have an outside riding option in the winter. If it snows, fack it I'll be skiing. If not the trails will be icy and I'll be alright.

Bike is set up to be easily converted for bikepacking by swapping in a Surly Moloko bar and have the option to put the rigid fork back on with all the mounting points.

Wouldn't surprise me if + bikes and tires start going the way of the dodo, tires could remain available but prices up if sales volume goes down.

**panchosdad** · 12-04-2020, 09:25 AM

Question for the hardtail riders, why not run a bigger tire in the rear, where you have no suspension? Seems like the biggest downside to plus tires is the vagueness/self steer in hard cornering, which could be mitigated by higher pressure/smaller tire in the front. Just curious having not had a hardtail in many years.

**HAB** · 12-04-2020, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by panchosdad

Question for the hardtail riders, why not run a bigger tire in the rear, where you have no suspension? Seems like the biggest downside to plus tires is the vagueness/self steer in hard cornering, which could be mitigated by higher pressure/smaller tire in the front. Just curious having not had a hardtail in many years.

I think the squirminess might be even worse in the rear, unless you're running silly low pressure up front.

I also need to run burly casings in the back of my hardtail to avoid shredding tires, which don't really exist in plus sizes, and if they did would weigh a ton.

I've never liked plus size tires at all in the few instances I've tried them though (never on my own bike or for very long, FWIW) so maybe I'm just not the target audience.

**Andeh** · 12-04-2020, 09:34 AM

I tried it a couple years ago on a SC Chameleon, and hated it. It came with 27.5x3.0s on 40mm rims. The undamped spring feeling is awful, especially on a hardtail. I ran pressures from 24 to 12 psi. Stepped down to 2.8s, same feeling. Stepped down to 2.6, and started to feel closer to decent. Sold the clown shoe rims and tires and converted to 29 with 27mm rims and it felt normal.

I'd agree that 2.5 is about the limit for a typical 30mm rim. I got hooked up with a set of 2.6 Hillbillys last winter, and they felt awful, and looked massive compared to even a 2.5 Assegai.

**bagtagley** · 12-04-2020, 09:50 AM

29+ is low profile enough to not be as vague and squirmy as 27.5+. I’d be seriously considering a Stache or even better, an Arcturian, if good 29+ tires weren’t disappearing.

**toast2266** · 12-04-2020, 10:02 AM

They certainly seem to make sense on hardtails, and seth, the bikepacking scenario seems like a great place for them.

My somewhat limited experience with them has definitely been that tire pressure is pretty critical, and it's a fine line between too much pressure where you bounce off everything, and too little pressure where they're just a mushy mess.

I mostly posted this because I stumbled across a tgr thread from a few years ago when plus bikes were just becoming popular. A lot of people were fairly militantly for or against them, but these days I don't hear much talk about plus tires one way or the other.

**Bushwacka** · 12-04-2020, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by panchosdad

Question for the hardtail riders, why not run a bigger tire in the rear, where you have no suspension? Seems like the biggest downside to plus tires is the vagueness/self steer in hard cornering, which could be mitigated by higher pressure/smaller tire in the front. Just curious having not had a hardtail in many years.

Its part of the reason I got an Nimble 9. Since I could run a 2.6 inch tire out back. Id rather run a 2.6x29 over a 3.0 x 27.5.

**ticketchecker** · 12-04-2020, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by panchosdad

Question for the hardtail riders, why not run a bigger tire in the rear, where you have no suspension? Seems like the biggest downside to plus tires is the vagueness/self steer in hard cornering, which could be mitigated by higher pressure/smaller tire in the front. Just curious having not had a hardtail in many years.

Right now it's because the 3.0 I had on the back sucked in wet conditions and I had a 2.8 nobby nic onhand so on it went. I've got a 2.6 f/r forekaster rekon combo leftover from my FS experiment that I just haven't gotten around to trying on the monkey yet.

And I want to get a low tech 29 wheelset for that bike to make it more versatile, isn't that what Surly's are all about? #frankenbike

**slcdawg** · 12-04-2020, 10:31 AM

I've got a Spot Rocker hard tail with 2.8+ tires for XC type trails and a Ripmo with 29x2.5 (not plus) for more tech riding, mostly in CO. I love the Spot on flowy singletrack and definitely notice a difference in traction, they do not slip. The plus tires also provide some cushion and is much better on my back than my older 29er HT. I'm not a racer but my strava times are faster on it than on my old race oriented 29er HT so no disadvantages that I'm aware of (other than tire price). If I were to get another HT it would definitely be a plus size. I don't think they make sense for FS. My ripmo has plenty of traction/cushion.

My daughter, 15, has a Rocky Moutain Growler with 26+ tires. Its her third year on it and really feel it is a great bike for kids/beginners. Its less expensive and weighs less than a FS but has a lot of the same benefits. Great traction, some cushion. She's a freshman on the HS team and getting to be a good technical rider. Crushed it this year in Moab, Fruita and local trails (Longhorn, Django in BV). I recommend this type of bike to all my friends' kids and will prob get my son something similar. He is on a Transition Ripcord with 24x2.4 tires and constantly slipping.

I know they are getting "out of fashion" but I'm a huge fan.

**Terrapin Ben** · 12-04-2020, 10:32 AM

I rode a big full squish plus bike for two seasons, a Scott genius lt plus - 160/160 travel. It was a good bike, but I eventually began to ride it with 27.5 x 2.5 tires and much preferred it that way. I also rode it as a mullet with 2.5 tires and preferred it to the 2.8 plus tires. When riding mellow trails and not charging the plus tires definitely provided more traction, but if you were trying to rail turns and ride aggressively the thin and unsupportive sidewalls became a pretty big liability. Checking tire pressure before every ride was requisite.

**sethschmautz** · 12-04-2020, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Andeh

I tried it a couple years ago on a SC Chameleon, and hated it. It came with 27.5x3.0s on 40mm rims. The undamped spring feeling is awful, especially on a hardtail. I ran pressures from 24 to 12 psi. Stepped down to 2.8s, same feeling. Stepped down to 2.6, and started to feel closer to decent. Sold the clown shoe rims and tires and converted to 29 with 27mm rims and it felt normal.

I'd agree that 2.5 is about the limit for a typical 30mm rim. I got hooked up with a set of 2.6 Hillbillys last winter, and they felt awful, and looked massive compared to even a 2.5 Assegai.

Funny. I had the opposite experience with my Stache. Had the frame built up and the only rims I had were 30mm IW so I rode it for a while with those (2.5 DHF/2.5 Aggressor). I got my wider rims (40mm) and rode those with McFly 2.8s front and rear. Ended up picking up a pair of 3" XR2s and the bike felt like it came alive - much faster, excellent grip and a bit more forgiving (probably less stiff tire casings I would guess). Climbed and descended really well and I found myself as fast or faster than my friends on their FS bikes.

But a HT, even a plus HT, takes a toll and the FS bike is easier on my body so I rode that for the majority of the end of the summer.

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**jackstraw** · 12-04-2020, 04:01 PM

I threw them on my Hightower and they were horrible. Zero confidence cornering with speed. I constantly played with pressure to no avail. Now that was on a Stans Flow 29mm internal. So a wider rim may be better.

Possibly a wider rim on a hardtail could be a better combo.

But at this point running a 2.5 - 2.4 combo, I just don't see a need for going to a 2.8-3.0 on fs bike. I'll just go full phat for the snow.

**detrusor** · 12-04-2020, 05:27 PM

I have a friend who bought a high zoot carbon Juliana with 3” tires. It was a mystery to her why it was such a shitty feeling climber compared to her Imd bike. Finally raked her into putting some 2.4” tires on tubeless. She was blown away.

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**volklpowdermaniac** · 12-04-2020, 11:14 PM

Steel hard tail here- 27.5x3.0 on both front and rear. Love the shit out of it. Tried it for a decent chunk of summer with 29x2.4, just meh, put back the plus for the muck season and fell back in love. Just feels springy and lively with the plus, but I realize I’m not like everybody else.

**climberevan** · 12-05-2020, 11:53 AM

GF & I have 29+ bikes for fooling around on occasionally and for bikepacking. We love them. Mine's a Krampus and she has a Trek 1120. Krampus has 40mm IW wheels with Dirt Wizard (pretty knobby) tires and 1120 has 50mm IW with Chupacabras (low, smaller knobs).

The traction is just endless, and especially nice on certain trails around here that are kind of too sandy to be fun on regular bikes. For bikepacking they are nice because they just monster truck over everything, and we're not in a hurry in that scenario. I also enjoy just going out for a couple of hours on the Krampus--it's fun in a certain way to just roll along and not feel hurried. I'll be bummed if the 29+ thing fades completely, as I feel it has a worthwhile place in our quiver, but we're pretty committed to N+1.

**VTskibum** · 12-05-2020, 04:56 PM

My 9y/o is running a 24+ (2.6) and has been great for his confidence on singletrack.

I’m slightly curious and if I had a modern 29 HT, would give it a go. Don’t see the point on FS bikes.

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**evdog** · 12-07-2020, 01:49 AM

My Mojo3 came with 2.8 tires. They were nice in sand but otherwise I didn't see the point. 2.5 WT tires have plenty of grip and are lighter, so that's what I've run since the 2.8s wore out.