Minimalist pin binding advice - East Coast glade jong-a-thon

[spaztwelve]

I’m finally building up a light weight 100% touring setup on a budget (like everyone else on the planet, apparently). I have skis and boots. Now I need bindings. Ideally I’d like something on the cheap side but I don’t know if that’s going to be a mistake.

I’ve read many posts on here. Frankly, I’m more lost now. I’m looking for a simple touring binding - I figure a low tech dynafit something or other - but I really don’t know what I should be using and what I should avoid. All I’ve ever toured on is frame bindings and heavy skis/boots.

I’m tall and 230 (or so) without gear and the boots I’ll be using have a BSL of 333. I ski fast and aggressive usually but I’m not looking to make this setup for that. I’m hoping to have something nimble and simple for early morning glade skipping on shit East coast snow (with hopefully some good days sprinkled in). It’s low consequence stuff. I guess I’m saying that I don’t necessarily want bindings on the burly end of the spectrum. I’d love to aim for simplicity, efficiency, and lightness. I probably don’t need brakes (maybe??) I also don’t want to be fighting release issues.

So, this is where I’m lost. I don’t understand release values of low tech bindings in regards to my size or what I’d ultimately overpower on less than ideal variable snow. Any advice?

Also, if anyone has something like this I’d consider purchasing.


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[rfconroy]

If you like to ski fast and hard, you will inevitably end up skiing like that at some point on your touring setup at least for a short bit.

Personally, while Radicals and other more minimal setups are awesome, I wouldn't trade that for the consistency of a Kingpin, Ion, or Tecton, because its not really that much of a weight penalty in the grand scheme of things.

I think Cody put it best here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHN1Odjl1bO/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[stealurface831]

plum techs?

[PNWbrit]

..

[spaztwelve]

If you like to ski fast and hard, you will inevitably end up skiing like that at some point on your touring setup at least for a short bit.

Personally, while Radicals and other more minimal setups are awesome, I wouldn't trade that for the consistency of a Kingpin, Ion, or Tecton, because its not really that much of a weight penalty in the grand scheme of things.

I think Cody put it best here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHN1Odjl1bO/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

That’s good advice and I definitely don’t disagree. I’m not necessarily picky. I just don’t know what I should be using. Also, I’m hoping to buy used stuff to keep cost down, so I definitely don’t want $500 bindings.


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[fleaches]

I'm sure a lot of people here will tell you to get Salomon mtns, for light and simple and a high RV that's probably not a bad choice. Especially if you are going to go brakeless.

Having just spent a few years on the Ice Coast I think bindings with some elastic response are maybe a little more suited for the conditions (I skied a tecton mostly), but I suppose that depends on what sort of conditions you want to tour in. When the snow was super shit or non existent in the woods I usually ended up at the resort anyways, so honestly a simple pin binding would have sufficed.

[GoSlowGoFar]

If you like to ski fast and hard, you will inevitably end up skiing like that at some point on your touring setup at least for a short bit.

Personally, while Radicals and other more minimal setups are awesome, I wouldn't trade that for the consistency of a Kingpin, Ion, or Tecton, because its not really that much of a weight penalty in the grand scheme of things.

I think Cody put it best here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHN1Odjl1bO/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Cody Townsend also regularly skis the MTN binding so there's that...not to mention 400-500g is much more significant than 85g on the meme. 1lb per foot is noticeable and you can still ski pretty damn aggressively on a 300-400g binding.

Plenty of info out there OP; Plum Guides, G3 Ion/Zeds, even the Dynafit Speed Turn 2.0s will do the job. Something that has a release value of at least 10 would probably be ideal considering your weight (not saying that you need to crank it up that high, but it's best to give yourself the option if you find you need it).

[spaztwelve]

I'm sure a lot of people here will tell you to get Salomon mtns, for light and simple and a high RV that's probably not a bad choice. Especially if you are going to go brakeless.

Having just spent a few years on the Ice Coast I think bindings with some elastic response are maybe a little more suited for the conditions (I skied a tecton mostly), but I suppose that depends on what sort of conditions you want to tour in. When the snow was super shit or non existent in the woods I usually ended up at the resort anyways, so honestly a simple pin binding would have sufficed.

Yeah. Truly shit days, I’ll hit the hill. I’m just hoping to get in a rhythm of getting up at 6, lapping a run in nearby glades and potentially heading to the resort after. My goal is regular fitness but I don’t want to tour the resort. I was thinking light and simple in this respect but more substantial than a straight rando race setup.


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[spaztwelve]

Cody Townsend also regularly skis the MTN binding so there's that...not to mention 400-500g is much more significant than 85g on the meme. 1lb per foot is noticeable and you can still ski pretty damn aggressively on a 300-400g binding.

Plenty of info out there OP; Plum Guides, G3 Ion/Zeds, even the Dynafit Speed Turn 2.0s will do the job. Something that has a release value of at least 10 would probably be ideal considering your weight (not saying that you need to crank it up that high, but it's best to give yourself the option if you find you need it).

So, an RV of 10 is okay for me? That’s what I’m interested to understand.


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[PNWbrit]

So, an RV of 10 is okay for me? That’s what I’m interested to understand.


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What DIN do you normally ski with?

[spaztwelve]

Honestly, I settled on 12 last season for resort days - getting older and nervous in my mid-fourties - but I do find it to be a fine line. I’ve historically run higher.


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[PNWbrit]

You'll probably be happier with something closer to what you normally ski.

Sounds like you're wandering around on your own though. So you're not going to be wrecking anyway.

[spaztwelve]

You'll probably be happier with something closer to what you normally ski.

Sounds like you're wandering around on your own though. So you're not going to be wrecking anyway.

Yeah, I really am more concerned about the up. If I could tour for steep and deep goodness, I’d be all over it and all my considerations would be different. Basically, it generally isn’t that great here but it’s still fun. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t intend to side slip down, but I’m not planning on charging. In fairness to the earlier poster, I would probably find an excuse to open it up a bit though. So, maybe just aim for an RV of 12?


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[Backward_Banana]

For what you're talking about, I think the answer is "the cheapest pin bindings you can get". Don't overthink it, there's minute differences between all of the options, but at the end of the day it's two pins up front and two pins in back.

[Lindahl]

I usually run a DIN of 11/12 in alpine bindings, and bindings like the Shift, Vipec, etc. I have no problem staying in a 10-RV ATK binding. That said, you're quite a bit bigger than me. I would say go for it, and see if you can stay in a 10-RV binding, just try it out for a while before heading into no-fall zones. I'd recommend the ATK Trofeo - good price and goes to 10.

If you need a higher climbing bar, then you can either:

1) augment with a DIY climbing bar using a dremel tool on a cutting board from Walmart and a Voile climbing riser that you mount under your foot in front of the heel piece (this has so many benefits, by the way)

2) buy a heavier binding like the ATK R12 or the Salomon binding

[gregL]

So, an RV of 10 is okay for me? That’s what I’m interested to understand.

None of us knows.

I would plan ahead and get something with a release value of roughly 12 - Ion 12, R 12, MTN with Expert Spring would all work. I also ski my alpine bindings at 11 or 12, and all of them are fine for me; I had sporadic pre-releases with "10" RV tech heels. (Also much smaller than you)

[Benneke10]

The used binding market kinda sucks right now because everyone and their mother is getting a touring setup. I'm seeing ancient Dynafits going for $200, while you can get new for not much more. If you're OK with a release value of 10 and you want to spend ~$250, get a pair of Speed Turns from Yurp, and consider a B&D toe shim because the delta is crazy on those. If you're OK with a release value of 10 but want to get the best, consider the ATK Release 10 which is one of the highest performing bindings on the market and can be had from Yurp for under $350 right now. If you want a release value of 12 and want to spend under $300, consider the Marker Alpinist 12 (again, cheaper from Yurp), the main downside of that binding is lack of a high riser.

[spaztwelve]

Helpful advice, everyone. I now have a good idea of where I should aim.

[adrenalated]

If you normally ski around DIN 12, I would definitely get a pin binding that goes to 12. I usually ski alpine bindings around 8-10 depending on the binding, and have settled in around 10 for RV on my pin bindings, despite generally skiing softer conditions and more conservatively than in the resort.

I have both G3 Ion LT and Salomon MTN Pin bindings and while I like both, I think I'd take the weight penalty of the Ions for ice coast skiing. They aren't as elastic as an alpine binding or something like a Tecton, but the heel definitely feels more precise than the MTN or a Dynafit Speed Radical so I think it's worth the performance upgrade for east coast conditions. I ordered a pair of Zeds this year that I'm pretty interested to try out.

[doebedoe]

Vipec may be worth a look for an east coaster if you want to stay lighter than Tecton. Elasticity at the toe, non-rotating heel piece for better feel, 12 RV.

[detrusor]

Marker alpinist 12 is inexpensive compared to others.


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[XXX-er]

I’m not necessarily picky. I just don’t know what I should be using. Also, I’m hoping to buy used stuff to keep cost down, so I definitely don’t want $500 bindings.]

if you don't wana spend much look for a used setup with Dynafit Vertical FT's

the Verts were super reliable, they have fully adjustable tension both lateraly and verticaly and the FT goes to 12 (Vert ST only goes to 10)

at yer size you probably want something that goes to 12

[Lindahl]

Also, I would carefully consider whether or not you want to go Dynafit. If I'm skiing dynamic with some energy that pops me up and has me landing on my edges, I've popped out a few times. The toe springs are too weak to take a lot of lateral forces like that. If you lock out, you may not have issues, but when skiing unlocked, it's happened more than a few times on a variety of their bindings. I much prefer the strength of the ATK toe springs.

If I remember correctly, I had problems with the both Superlite and Speed Radical models. I haven't skied any others besides the rotation models, but I never skied those hard enough to know if they had the same issue (I disliked how they skied).

If you want to get nerdy about it, Lou Dawson did some force tests on the clamping force of the toe springs that seems very relevant to these sorts of releases. I prefer to just go skiing though and see how they perform in somewhat controlled environments.

[rod9301]

If you normally ski around DIN 12, I would definitely get a pin binding that goes to 12. I usually ski alpine bindings around 8-10 depending on the binding, and have settled in around 10 for RV on my pin bindings, despite generally skiing softer conditions and more conservatively than in the resort.

I have both G3 Ion LT and Salomon MTN Pin bindings and while I like both, I think I'd take the weight penalty of the Ions for ice coast skiing. They aren't as elastic as an alpine binding or something like a Tecton, but the heel definitely feels more precise than the MTN or a Dynafit Speed Radical so I think it's worth the performance upgrade for east coast conditions. I ordered a pair of Zeds this year that I'm pretty interested to try out.

Interesting.

I had the ion 12 and now I'm on mtn, with brakes.

I found the ions more vague. Plus the toe piece wore out after 1 year.

The mtn is bomber

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[rod9301]

Also, I would carefully consider whether or not you want to go Dynafit. If I'm skiing dynamic with some energy that pops me up and has me landing on my edges, I've popped out a few times. The toe springs are too weak to take a lot of lateral forces like that. If you lock out, you may not have issues, but when skiing unlocked, it's happened more than a few times on a variety of their bindings. I much prefer the strength of the ATK toe springs.

If I remember correctly, I had problems with the both Superlite and Speed Radical models. I haven't skied any others besides the rotation models, but I never skied those hard enough to know if they had the same issue (I disliked how they skied).

If you want to get nerdy about it, Lou Dawson did some force tests on the clamping force of the toe springs that seems very relevant to these sorts of releases. I prefer to just go skiing though and see how they perform in somewhat controlled environments.

Totally agree with the dynafits springs being weak.

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