Best Avy Bag?

[syruptraps]

I'm just trying to put out some feelers on what this community thinks the best airbag out there is?

I've kinda narrowed it down to the Mammut Pro Protection 3.0 and the BD Jetforce. The mammut bag and canisters are available through pro-deal for me where as the Jetforce is not meaning I would save almost $800 going with Mammut.

I know this isn't a product to compromise on considering it will save my life, but is the Jetforce that much better? Thanks for the input!

[altacoup]

I have the Mammut and really like it except for one thing. The ski carry isn’t. Dry good when the bag is lightly packed. I really liked the idea of having some head protection built in. That said if prices where the same I’d buy the jetforce simply for ease of practice deployment


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[tang]

There's a lot of considerations and probably not a "best" bag out there for everyone. But here are a few thoughts...
- Size is critical. Think about what you bring and knock at least 5L off the bag size, and be sure you have enough room for the kind of touring you do. Otherwise, good chance you'll leave your avy bag at home and use your old pack. I had a Mammut 30 or 35. It was too small I sold it. I now have a Scott Patrol e1 40L - it is just big enough for all-day touring
- Fit - Much more individual. It would help to try one on before you buy. I'll say the Mammut fit nicely in that it hugged me pretty well and felt secure on both the up and downs
- Fan vs cannister - Fans are just more convenient - for testing, for traveling. But if you mostly tour locally, then not as big of a deal. Both will (or should!) deploy just fine
There's other features like ski carry, modular (jetfoce) vs swappable airbag, etc. but I think the above are the key things to think through

[tang]

And yes, ski carry on the mammut and the scott are quite bad - the "diagonal" is way too vertical, it's a mess and poorly designed. But you can just add an upper strap more offset to the side, or carry a-frame

[ender9099]

Im coming out of this research as well and ended up with the new Osprey Soelden 32L with the Alpride E1 airbag. Generally i would highly recommend the new super-capacitor airbag over the traditional canisters because they are easy to charge and discharge, you can practice, you never have to make a decision on deployment, etc. You can actually get comfortable with the airbag system and not being paying $ to redeploy it. I find great comfort in being very comfortable with my gear and never really like having a piece of BC gear i could not practice with. You could easily deploy this in the BC and immediately repack it and recharge it (AA batteries = 4 hours). You can travel with it if the pandemic ever ends and it sees a plane. You also get to say "supercapacitor" which is fun and explain to people wtf it is. It is also interchangeable verbally with flux capacitor.

The E1 is available in the Scott Patrol (30 and 40L options, plus some smaller ones). It is removable so if you want a smaller pack and a larger one you can transfer it (although its not "easy" but it can be done - the velcro will hold a fucking elephant.).

On the Osprey Soelden itself - generally this is a great pack for day tours. With some careful packing and iteration I have learned to love it - solid A frame ski carry system. Exterior ice axe or tool carry, gear loops on the belt. Avy gear pouch, and a large main full zip pouch. Airbag super-capacitor placement is fine imo - creating a nice spot underneath for first aid kits, ski crampons pre-use, other pouches, etc. I have it rigged with a small insulated hydration sleeve as well and it still fits a separate water bottle just fine. The insulation sleeve routing is a bit weird but it keeps it completely underneath the actual airbag (i know most people don't use hydration systems in the BC bc they freeze - i have sort of figured them out and like to tour with them). You can also easily route a radio through it as well. Helmet carry is integrated and works nicely. Only gripe is it could use one or two more true exterior pouches (no dedicated goggle pouch of spare lens pouch if you really want that) - but i have learned to live with it. I have triggered the bag twice now to learn how to repack it and its pretty bombproof. Also will be fun at parties (which I don't have bc covid).

My recommendation is to look at the Scott patrol 30 and 40 with the E1 (Im pondering the Scott 40, would be nice for bigger days and just a bit more space) but the Osprey 32 E1 is solid - and the 32 is AFTER the airbag - so full bag is closer to a 35 i believe. Going to tour with it for the full season and determine if i really need anything larger. The more gear-heavy you are, the more ski mountaineering vs just touring you are - the more you may want to size up to the Scott 40.

Hope that helps. Lots of videos online or I can post a few with it packed if you wanna see this ho.

This is a good overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acu3DKxR3DE

UPDATE (12/7/20): I recently began experiencing some major issues with the osprey S32 E1 pack related to the zipper that holds the airbag (it comes apart with basic field use of the pack) and i might recommend holding off on this given its Gen-1 for them. They have been crazy responsive to the issue thus far and and i will provide further updates shortly.

[syruptraps]

Thanks for all the suggestions!

[DarthMarkus]

Dont have as much experience on backpacks, but depending on your purposes, you may like the north face ABS vest. I've had mine for 4+years and I can say that it was one of the better purchases i've made.

Balance has always been a big issue for me with normal backpacks, so getting an airbag that doesn't pull me backwards was one of my bigger considerations.

The north face vest does fit a bit snug compared to some of the others, but I also trust it a bit more in the event of a deployment - I would worry about some of the other looser fitting vests or packs ripping off in the event of an avalanche.

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[volklpowdermaniac]

I was looking to get a small non bag pack for side country (I have a 40+ l BD for long tour days and multidays) seems like a 20-30l should suffice for a side country setup (probably minimal skins in the pack)? Also is it weird to consider getting an avybag for sidecountry but not having one in my longer tour setup? (Different risk assessment, less pow charging mentality, more adventure/explorative on my longer days) - hmm just typing that seems dumb?

[GoSlowGoFar]

I was looking to get a small non bag pack for side country (I have a 40+ l BD for long tour days and multidays) seems like a 20-30l should suffice for a side country setup (probably minimal skins in the pack)? Also is it weird to consider getting an avybag for sidecountry but not having one in my longer tour setup? (Different risk assessment, less pow charging mentality, more adventure/explorative on my longer days) - hmm just typing that seems dumb?

I think if your mentality and risk assessment l is changing based on if you have an avy bag or not, you probably should forego the air bag altogether.

[f=ma]

Currently use a BCA float 32 for my avy bag. In terms of the bag, it's terrible....

[volklpowdermaniac]

I think if your mentality and risk assessment l is changing based on if you have an avy bag or not, you probably should forego the air bag altogether.

Fair point. I never used one in the backcountry and leaned on knowledge, and decision making and instinct to keep me on my feet, used one for years at work, so have that to consider. But maybe I’m better off just staying conservative.

[ender9099]

Fair point. I never used one in the backcountry and leaned on knowledge, and decision making and instinct to keep me on my feet, used one for years at work, so have that to consider. But maybe I’m better off just staying conservative.

Correct. AND if your mentality and risk assessment is NOT changing while wearing an airbag (which it absolutely should not) - then the mortality rate reduction of having this equipment is worth the $. You don't learn to drive, wear a seatbelt, and then drive a car with no airbag. You do both bc it reduces risk. Avalanche training is a seatbelt and is required by bc law. The airbag is the airbag. Do both. Plan to always avoid an accident. But shit happens.

[skifishbum]

Im coming out of this research as well and ended up with the new Osprey Soelden 32L with the Alpride E1 airbag. Generally i would highly recommend the new super-capacitor airbag over the traditional canisters because they are easy to charge and discharge, you can practice, you never have to make a decision on deployment, etc. You can actually get comfortable with the airbag system and not being paying $ to redeploy it. I find great comfort in being very comfortable with my gear and never really like having a piece of BC gear i could not practice with. You could easily deploy this in the BC and immediately repack it and recharge it (AA batteries = 4 hours). You can travel with it if the pandemic ever ends and it sees a plane. You also get to say "supercapacitor" which is fun and explain to people wtf it is. It is also interchangeable verbally with flux capacitor.

The E1 is available in the Scott Patrol (30 and 40L options, plus some smaller ones). It is removable so if you want a smaller pack and a larger one you can transfer it (although its not "easy" but it can be done - the velcro will hold a fucking elephant.).

On the Osprey Soelden itself - generally this is a great pack for day tours. With some careful packing and iteration I have learned to love it - solid A frame ski carry system. Exterior ice axe or tool carry, gear loops on the belt. Avy gear pouch, and a large main full zip pouch. Airbag super-capacitor placement is fine imo - creating a nice spot underneath for first aid kits, ski crampons pre-use, other pouches, etc. I have it rigged with a small insulated hydration sleeve as well and it still fits a separate water bottle just fine. The insulation sleeve routing is a bit weird but it keeps it completely underneath the actual airbag (i know most people don't use hydration systems in the BC bc they freeze - i have sort of figured them out and like to tour with them). You can also easily route a radio through it as well. Helmet carry is integrated and works nicely. Only gripe is it could use one or two more true exterior pouches (no dedicated goggle pouch of spare lens pouch if you really want that) - but i have learned to live with it. I have triggered the bag twice now to learn how to repack it and its pretty bombproof. Also will be fun at parties (which I don't have bc covid).

My recommendation is to look at the Scott patrol 30 and 40 with the E1 (Im pondering the Scott 40, would be nice for bigger days and just a bit more space) but the Osprey 32 E1 is solid - and the 32 is AFTER the airbag - so full bag is closer to a 35 i believe. Going to tour with it for the full season and determine if i really need anything larger. The more gear-heavy you are, the more ski mountaineering vs just touring you are - the more you may want to size up to the Scott 40.

Hope that helps. Lots of videos online or I can post a few with it packed if you wanna see this ho.

This is a good overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acu3DKxR3DE

thanks fer the solid post we have that new osprey bag at work and i think im gonna replace my dueter 40+
with it and try to downsize

[tang]

Correct. AND if your mentality and risk assessment is NOT changing while wearing an airbag (which it absolutely should not) - then the mortality rate reduction of having this equipment is worth the $. You don't learn to drive, wear a seatbelt, and then drive a car with no airbag. You do both bc it reduces risk. Avalanche training is a seatbelt and is required by bc law. The airbag is the airbag. Do both. Plan to always avoid an accident. But shit happens.

Good way to put it. I know some who've avoided an airbag because of possible risk of pushing their safety boundary. It's like you have to block out that its there. Although in certain circumstances maybe its a consideration - for example, if I have an airbag and partner doesn't, should I do the ski cut?

[Cocximus]

Good way to put it. I know some who've avoided an airbag because of possible risk of pushing their safety boundary. It's like you have to block out that its there. Although in certain circumstances maybe its a consideration - for example, if I have an airbag and partner doesn't, should I do the ski cut?

Is it even a consideration? Poodle > Avi Bag > No Bag is pretty much the norm...

[volklpowdermaniac]

Ended up buying a float 22 for sidecountry. Know the BCA system well, used it before. Will look to upgrade my big pack at some point too. Good talking points here.

[frorider]

Several threads kicking around on this topic, but I’ll throw in my big thumbs up on the Scott 30 L https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...irbag-backpack

By switching the trigger to the other shoulder strap, this pack allows me to position a wide Camelbak lumbar hydration ladder nicely in the very bottom of the pack, and I’ve taken this med volume pack on ski mtneering trips w/ boot crampons, fat skins, rescue gear (but no harness or big rope), etc. For me the A frame carry has always been preferred on any pack where my helmet is stored on the back. Anyway, net result is a light pack, easy to take on planes, easy to test inflate or multiple inflate on a weeklong hut trip, that also skis well.

[garyfromterrace]

Ended up buying a float 22 for sidecountry. Know the BCA system well, used it before. Will look to upgrade my big pack at some point too. Good talking points here.

Too bad. I mean what are you not carrying in your "side" country pack that you would normally carry in your "back" country pack. I feel side country = back country. No one's going to save you if shit goes bad. 22 litres seems to small to carry anything. IMHO of course.

edit:
My above post may have come off like a know it all dick. Edit to say a 22 litre pack is too small for all MY shit. Volkl, you may pack different shit, differently. So there's that.

[Skeeze]

Several threads kicking around on this topic, but I’ll throw in my big thumbs up on the Scott 30 L https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...irbag-backpack

By switching the trigger to the other shoulder strap, this pack allows me to position a wide Camelbak lumbar hydration ladder nicely in the very bottom of the pack, and I’ve taken this med volume pack on ski mtneering trips w/ boot crampons, fat skins, rescue gear (but no harness or big rope), etc. For me the A frame carry has always been preferred on any pack where my helmet is stored on the back. Anyway, net result is a light pack, easy to take on planes, easy to test inflate or multiple inflate on a weeklong hut trip, that also skis well.

I got this exact pack for this season and although there’s not enough snow yet to have used it, it’s really nice and light for a pack you can take on a plane and seems to be designed well. Only issue I can see is that the entire outside of the pack likes to unzip if you unzip it even just a little bit (seems the zipper could be made a bit stiffer).

The diagonal ski carry is quite vertical which isn’t ideal but also pretty standard. On the subject of the A-frame carry—wouldn’t that prevent the airbag from deploying properly?

[volklpowdermaniac]

Too bad. I mean what are you not carrying in your "side" country pack that you would normally carry in your "back" country pack. I feel side country = back country. No one's going to save you if shit goes bad. 22 litres seems to small to carry anything. IMHO of course.

edit:
My above post may have come off like a know it all dick. Edit to say a 22 litre pack is too small for all MY shit. Volkl, you may pack different shit, differently. So there's that.

Oh no worries. It’s just for sidecountry I like my rescue gear, maybe a little water and extra layer and some food. Long day trips or overnights could be lots of food, lots of water, full change of base layer,, extra gloves or goggles, extra safety gear - axe, ropes, skins (that’s a big one, probably won’t take or have skins with me in sidecountry)

Different strokes for different folks. It’s better for me to have two bags, then one where I have to worry about making shit everything gets from one bag to another.

[adrenalated]

probably won’t take or have skins with me in sidecountry.

Something to think about here. If the last person in your group gets slid/injured/buried, and you're down below, do you have a way to get back uphill to them? Even shuffling uphill with skins on alpine bindings might be quicker than sidestepping or bootpacking, depending on terrain and snow conditions.
Summit brought this up years ago and I find myself carrying skins in the sidecountry a lot more regularly now.

[volklpowdermaniac]

Something to think about here. If the last person in your group gets slid/injured/buried, and you're down below, do you have a way to get back uphill to them? Even shuffling uphill with skins on alpine bindings might be quicker than sidestepping or bootpacking, depending on terrain and snow conditions.
Summit brought this up years ago and I find myself carrying skins in the sidecountry a lot more regularly now.

Great point

[abraham]

Something to think about here. If the last person in your group gets slid/injured/buried, and you're down below, do you have a way to get back uphill to them? Even shuffling uphill with skins on alpine bindings might be quicker than sidestepping or bootpacking, depending on terrain and snow conditions.
Summit brought this up years ago and I find myself carrying skins in the sidecountry a lot more regularly now.

Yeah I remember that tree well post. I've carrieded skins that are too small for my normal skis in my pack since then, it's not a lot of extra space and it could be worth it

[skibrd]

I really like the 26 liter Dakine Poacher RAS 3.0, it fits, it holds what I need for a day of skiing, and it’s durable. I’ve used it 50-70 days a year for the past 4 years, and it’s holding strong. I am getting a new one for this winter, but that’s mainly because I’m overly cautious about personal protective gear.


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[Backward_Banana]

Also wanted to throw out the Arva Reactor airbags, I've used the 24L for the last 3 years, and it carries everything I need for a typical day of touring, even including rope and all that. I have a different pack I use for anything that I'd need two tools for, but typically if I'm using two tools I'm not bringing and airbag anyway.

The pack carries really "flat" compared to the BCA packs, which to me carry more like a school backpack, if that makes any sense. Otherwise it's pretty standard, and it comes in orange, which is super important.