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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Boston hopefully temporarily
    Posts
    521

    Mtb hub overthinking

    I beed a new rear wheel for my fs bike (transition sentinel) because I smashed into too many things with the current one. Currently in Boston riding slow jank so engagement is important, hoping to move back to Seattle where sealing against mud is more important. I am 205 and donít ride light but am also a cheap ass. I like quiethubs. I have had skipping in my stock nova techs and the stans hubs in my last bike.

    Options

    King known good but expensive and like a fair bit of maintenance. Also draggy.

    Onyx instant and quiet. Questionable bearings. Expensive.

    I9 torches are too loud. 101s seem to be the same. Hydras are quieter but the same price as king/onyx.

    P321 some good reviews and cheaper and lighter than king/onyx but had issues and not a ton of more recent info.

    Spank hex drive gives me good engagement in a ~$350 wheel but unknown durability.

    Also debating cheapish aluminum rims that are good for 2 seasons vs we are ones that should not break and will replace for free if I do.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    3,501
    Been super happy with my P321. Fast rolling and quick engagement. I think the P321s with issues had I9 internals, look into that. That being said your first 4 options are all great hubs. Kings are bit annoying to deal with IME.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    21,098
    DT 350 and upgrade engagement?


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    8,470
    My observation was that P321 has evolved into the benchmark hub. Has quiet vs semi loud choice, Shit ton or Mega Shit Ton POE, preload bearings, light, and somewhat affordable (got my rear on sale at Fanatik).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    38
    I'll echo other's comments on the P321 hubs. I'm a little bigger than you and ride in the PNW...been very happy with these hubs so far. The high engagement is nice but I think the highlight of P321s is the sound...definitely not silent like the Onyx, but very quiet.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    13,287
    I wouldn't run Onyx on a FS bike. Too heavy (although the Vespers aren't as bad) and instant engagement isn't even all that desirable on FS. I9s can supposedly be made a lot quieter with a heavier grease.

    Hayes gave my kid some wheels with Ringle Bubba hubs and they're pretty sweet (https://bikerumor.com/2019/05/04/ins...ain-bike-hubs/). Adjustable engagement (4* single-pawl or 8* double-pawl), 350 g, $100 less than Hydras. On sale right now: https://hayesbicycle.com/products/bu...34635432263725

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Norcal
    Posts
    76
    Current bike has I9 hydra. They are pretty damn loud and high pitched. That said, engagement is insanely good. Previously ran Hope Pro 4. Definitely less engagement but still pretty good. Also much more affordable and pretty bullet proof. IMO Hope Pro 4 is a great value.


    I'm a similar weight, ~200 lb. For aluminum rims I destroyed a few of the newer Stans Flow MK3 rims in the rear and eventually switched over to a Spank Vibrocore 350 and found it to be more durable. YMMV but I've found most aluminum rims to be relatively disposable for rear wheels. I'm currently running a pair of china carbon rims laced to the I9 hydras and they have held up well. Brand is Nextie, decals kind of look like Enve knockoffs.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Donner Summit
    Posts
    867
    DT 240S? Light, reliable, cheaper than the more blingy options (CK etc.). Comes in any color you want as long as it's black. Upgrade the star ratchet if you want more POE.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Shadynasty's Jazz Club
    Posts
    8,939
    No issues with my newer (non-I9) P321 rear hub after three+ seasons. Though, I agree with Dan (and toast) that instant engagement is probably more detrimental than beneficial on a FS bike if you're not real sensitive to engagement. I've been swapping between bikes all summer, one with the P321 and the others with crap POE. I never notice when moving to/from the high engagement hub (other than the glorious silence of the P321). YMMV.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Boston hopefully temporarily
    Posts
    521
    DTs are out the 54t ratchet are not reliable and 36 is less than I want. I am not worried about 100g on the hub, these will be built with 500g rims, 1100-1200g tires and 150-200g inserts that will make them heavy no matter what.
    Torn on how cheap I want to go. I can get Crank brothers synthesis on i9 1/1s for cheap (pro deal) when they come back into stock and deal with the noise. Nice hubs on alloy rims are ~$550-600. Even with an insert I expect to kill an aluminum rear rim in 2 seasons so wondering if carbon is worth it.

    We are one or nobl are ~1200 on 1/1s or $1400 on hydra for the pair or ~1000 for a rear on other options.

    Also considering hunt carbon for $800 for the pair on their hubs including rim crash replacement, not available until january but most other options are on a similar timeframe. Any experience with these wheel or brand? I emailed them asking for more details on what happens if I crack a rim.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    809
    I cracked a We Are One Agent about 2 weeks ago, and they had a new rim on my doorstep in 5 days. Cost to me was $30 for shipping (to the US from CA nonetheless).

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    lake level
    Posts
    1,343
    Quote Originally Posted by carlh View Post
    Also considering hunt carbon for $800 for the pair on their hubs including rim crash replacement, not available until january but most other options are on a similar timeframe. Any experience with these wheel or brand? I emailed them asking for more details on what happens if I crack a rim.
    Got some Hunts a couple months ago, so far so good. I bought them because my aluminum E13s are shit, and no longer anything close to round. Reviews that I read were all good, and the price can't be beat except maybe some no name Chinese stuff. Also lifetime warranty, though I am wondering if I ever have to use it how long it would take to get a replacement. Kept the E13s just for that reason. I'm 215 and ride pretty hard, no inserts, I've had a few impacts that had me checking the rim, but they are still looking new. I'm not too picky with hubs, to me they are all the same until they fall apart, but these seem pretty solid, not silent but quieter than what I had before. I've never ridden any other carbon wheels, so can't make comparisons, but these are maybe slightly lighter than my aluminum ones, seem to track better, and haven't needed any truing or tightening yet, so I'd consider it money well spent so long as it stays that way. Time will tell.
    ďI really lack the words to compliment myself today.Ē - Alberto Tomba

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tahoe-ish
    Posts
    1,156
    If you're considering Hunts, just get Farsport wheels and cut out the middleman. They (Hunt) use Novatec hubs, BTW.

    https://youtu.be/-bb7eCgLbLI

    I'm loving my BTLOS rims with DT 240 hubs (1390g/ pair), but I'm so much lighter than OP that my experience is prob not relevant.
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    952
    Hadley is my gold standard for surviving winter PNW slop, and they're quiet. 72 POE is more than enough. I've got a pair that I bought used more than 10 years ago, that have been in regular use on my hardtail (primary winter bike) for the last 6ish years and I still haven't needed to change the bearings since I bought them.

    DT's high end aluminum rims are the best in the business. 471s, 481s, and 511s are all great, depending on how wide and burly you want things. We Are One is my favorite if you want to go carbon. I own Unions and Agents, both are excellent. The Agents have survived multiple pinch flats of Double Down and DH casing rear tires at ~30psi without incident.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Bham
    Posts
    255
    I'll vouch for We Are One rims being the best feeling and most reliable carbon rim I've ridden. Great folks and laid up in N. America. I'm reluctantly on Hydra hubs as I'm not a fan of loud hubs. Grease helps temporarily, but a viscous high mileage wet chain lube quiets them down significantly for 100 miles or so. Dead easy to re-up. They ride beautifully and so far are quite reliable.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using TGR Forums mobile app

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I9s can supposedly be made a lot quieter with a heavier grease.
    Tired that, it only made them tolerable for ~25 miles, then the loud annoying whine. I donít usually even mind hub noise, but the high pitched whine of Hydras hurt my soul. Like an air raid siren...

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Boulder
    Posts
    5,384
    I don't even notice my hydras.

    All of you should have spent more time with loud engines when you were kids.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Boston hopefully temporarily
    Posts
    521
    I know the hunts use novatec hubs but the high end 120 poe version and china carbon rims, but for ~$100 over the direct options I get a rim replacement warranty and a US office to deal with. Waiting to see how responsive they are to my warranty terms questions.
    Step up is we are one, but they are pushing my appetite to spend money. Can I quiet down a 1/1 hub with grease to a reasonable level like a king instead of a torch? Can find a discount code but only for the stock i9 hub options that makes these a bit more reasonable price wise.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    703
    was looking at the project 321s and can't understand why the microspline is only compatible with the 51t 12 speed shimano cassette. i love the spacing on 12 speed 45t setup but apparently it's a no-go.
    now a complete tool

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    952
    Quote Originally Posted by westoxified View Post
    was looking at the project 321s and can't understand why the microspline is only compatible with the 51t 12 speed shimano cassette. i love the spacing on 12 speed 45t setup but apparently it's a no-go.
    I assume it's spoke to derailleur clearance. The larger cassette buys more room because the derailleur sits lower to clear the big cog, so the spokes have more distance over which to angle away from it. Per their site:

    **IMPORTANT!!! Due to a large drive side flange spacing our hubs are ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH 51T MICROSPLINE CASSETTES. This feature of our hubs is designed to maximize drive side bracing angle and rear wheel lateral stiffness. This has been a feature of our hub design since before Microspline was released. Please note that when purchasing a hub set with Microspline driver or upgrading to Microspline driver on an existing hub set you
    will be limited to 51t only. Thank you!

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    3,501
    Quote Originally Posted by westoxified View Post
    was looking at the project 321s and can't understand why the microspline is only compatible with the 51t 12 speed shimano cassette. i love the spacing on 12 speed 45t setup but apparently it's a no-go.
    Drive side hub flange?
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
    Posts
    13,638
    My hydra rear is amazing. Wouldn't want to ride anything else now. I like em loud, but you can run heavier grease in them to make them quiet.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    the big dirty
    Posts
    715
    I go back and forth between a Bontrager with 108 POE and an 18 point DT swiss star ratchet and I don't notice any difference

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Boston hopefully temporarily
    Posts
    521
    tech climbing aka uphill rock gardens that make up 50% of new england riding high engagement helps a bunch. The king on my hardtail is much easier to ratchet than the novatec on my sentinel. I agree it doesn't matter in a lot of situations but when it does it helps a lot.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,413
    I liked the Kingís on my old bike, but with less techy terrain, I donít miss them.

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