Walk’n away from GripWalk. Anyone else?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Been running basically that set up since 2016 (Lupo with rubber soles with 916/STH) I have not died.

Me too and before that I used WTR. No problems and release when I expect them to. I don’t really care about the sole blocks aside from the tech fittings , just the tour mode.


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[gregL]

Oh c'mon. It's all about impressing the chicks at the watercooler.

For sure if you wear your GripWalk soles at work you'll be "drowning in pussy" . . .

[GoldenBC]

I put them on my flip flops

[GoSlowGoFar]

I’ve been trying to follow along but I guess I can’t really see the true issue with GW. Is your only issue with it regarding alpine binder compatibility? I’ve been happy with my Hawx XTDs the past few seasons, they tour great and ski great but I’m running STH2s on my alpine setups so it’s not an issue compatibility wise. Only downside is the minimal rocker makes it a little less comfortable bootpacking or hiking, otherwise no complaints.

[chicken feathers]

I just picked up some sets of GW bindings because they would work with old ISO 5355 sole race boots I have, and I think ​the local shops only had GW and MN bindings on display...I didn't do much research though, just asked for a binding that would work w/ my boots, not a binding that would only work with my boots.
To me GW seems like a solution to a problem that I don't have. I am guessing this is where most peoples issue lies.
The whole system just seems sorta clunky, while not offering any apparent performance benefit over DIN. The adjustable AFD height is one more thing to monitor, and or adjust if you switch boots. But those are just my initial thoughts.

[iriponsnow]

I’ve been trying to follow along but I guess I can’t really see the true issue with GW. Is your only issue with it regarding alpine binder compatibility?

Pretty much a year after starting this thread- all of post 1 still applies. DIN gives me consistent access to on/off piste skis without messing with the AFD parameters or skiing an all plastic clamp.

[east or bust]

GW is stupid on alpine boots.

GW soles should only be put on AT specific boots.

/endthread?


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[the_eleven]

GW is stupid on alpine boots.

GW soles should only be put on AT specific boots.

Why stop there?

GW is stupid on Alpine boots and "crossover boots."

For an AT specific boot, use a full Vibram for better walking, hiking, and scrambling on rock.

[skimaxpower]

I never left DIN for resort and lif-served skiing. Too much time on it and it worked too well to try anything else. I had a pair of the first Tecnica Cochise for a hot minute, but even those had the ISO sole blocks. If I'm headed out the gates, it's either too boot pack, or I'll be in AT mode all day and as such, I'll have my AT boots. Or I'm in the backcountry. So yah... DIN FTW

Couldn't agree more. Gripwalk is a bad solution to silly problem. In the interest of deluding consumer into believing that one boot really can do it all, they gave us a generation of boots that are bad at touring, bad at resort skiiing, less safe than their predecessors, and incompatible with beloved previous technology.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Couldn't agree more. Gripwalk is a bad solution to silly problem. In the interest of deluding consumer into believing that one boot really can do it all, they gave us a generation of boots that are bad at touring, bad at resort skiiing, less safe than their predecessors, and incompatible with beloved previous technology.

Yet thousands of skiers use them happily and are unaware of these short comings. I don’t care about the GW soles, but I do like certain hybrid boots for most of the skiing that I do but I’m an old beater and don’t care.


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[phatboy64]

Also, correct me if I am wrong but I have been told that having GW soles makes it impossible/difficult to cant your boots even when using Cantology.

[jummo]

Also, correct me if I am wrong but I have been told that having GW soles makes it impossible/difficult to cant your boots even when using Cantology.

Cantology has started to produce shims that are Gripwalk. To use them you have to reset your router to cut down the toe and heel lug. Additionally, the GW soles are quite a bit more prone to wobble during the cut.
Personally, the less time spent resetting the cutter height the better. And wobble during the cut is not good at all.

It is our preference to simply switch the soles back to standard if there is canting required.
Brand N includes the soles in the box so that's easy. With some of the brands, the pieces are still back ordered. So if we know you will require canting you don't even try them on.
Gripwalk also sucks for trying to set up fore/aft balance, we place a 4mm lifter under the heel to negate the Gripwalk effect. The same with evaluation for canting.

So, yes, Gripwalk sucks.

jummo

[gregL]

It is our preference to simply switch the soles back to standard if there is canting required.
Brand N includes the soles in the box so that's easy.

Good info, thanks. Brand D also includes ISO 5355 soles in the box in most cases.

[onenerdykid]

Some positive points to GripWalk:

-Tech Inserts are allowed in the norm and the TÜV will certify a GripWalk + Tech Insert combo. The TÜV does not and never has certified a ISO 5355 + tech insert combo. Any boot that has ever had that combo was a non-certified boot. While some people might not care, shops should.

-GripWalk allows for a deeper, more aggressive tread pattern than ISO 5355. I personally have found this helpful when boot packing- they seem less slippery than dual component 5355.

-In a GripWalk binding, a boot with ISO 5355 and GripWalk have the same geometry. GripWalk will stand more upright on a flat surface, but once it is in the binding, it is the same as the same boot with 5355 soles.


Re: sole canting - Canting shims will work with ISO 5355 pads and GripWalk because the interface between the shell and the grip pad is the same. Because a GripWalk boot will stand more upright on a flat surface, the boot-fitter should do the canting assessment with 5355 soles, add the shims, do the routering with 5355 pads installed, and then change over to GripWalk.

[jummo]

In theory, you can switch the soles to 5355 with the Cantology shims, cut down the lugs and put Gripwalk back on, but that's a lot of extra steps.
Brand A has an elaborately tooled set of canting shims that don't work with Gripwalk and didn't have standard replacement soles available until just recently.
We received a small number of them free of charge, based on a percentage of the order and ordered more of them so we would have enough. The free ones came finally, but the ones we are willing to buy are back ordered.
Same with Brand S, although nothing has shown up yet.
My assumption is that since such a small number of shops actually do any of this, that it is not a big priority with limited production capacity.
We went through this with the lack of cuff adjustment on Brand S boots as well. We were able to convince the boys from Annecy that we were losing sales of Brand S boots because we couldn't set the boots up correctly.
But it wasn't until the Race Dept. requested it that something was finally done.
Either way, Gripwalk still sucks.
jummo

[onenerdykid]

Brand A has an elaborately tooled set of canting shims that don't work with Gripwalk
jummo

Heh?

[SumJongGuy]

Yak/SkiTrax FTW.. GW and WTR were inferior solutions looking for an already resolved problem. Walk on boot sole covers, ski on ski boot soles.. Leave the boot covers hanging with your lock at the base lodge rack.
Out on the mountains hiking crampons..

[jummo]

Heh?

This is one of those times where I'm glad to be wrong .
Thank you, but swapping soles twice is still a PIA.

jummo

[onenerdykid]

This is one of those times where I'm glad to be wrong .
Thank you, but swapping soles twice is still a PIA.

jummo

Agreed. But, at least it's still possible to do. For non-tech insert boots, there is always going to be a 5355 option when GripWalk comes equipped. As you noted, stock is hard to come by. But during the pandemic and when every company's supply chain is absolutely fucked, brands have had to prioritize complete boots before spare parts. It will even out eventually, but it's going to take some time to get there.

[XavierD]

This thread is literally old man yells at clouds.

1) Grip Walk wasn’t brought about for AT boots, or cross over boots for that matter. It was brought about to make navigating parking lots, base areas and lodges easier for the majority of skiers, who often only ski once in their lifetime.

2) If you struggle to find a solution to canting grip walk boots with cant shims you probably shouldn’t be canting anyone to start with. Most of the time the only benefit to canting is the quick $200 to the boot fitter and some extra smoke and mirrors to the customer. More isn’t always better.

3) GW is objectively an improvement in user experience for 99% of skiers. Your collection of old bindings which need to be upgraded isn’t a reason to pause the whole industry moving to a more user friendly solution.

4) 5355 isn’t coming back. Grip Walk is here for the time being, and something may replace it in a decade but it won’t be your traditional 5355. Pretty much every alpine binding sold now is grip walk compatible, and most boots are coming stock with GW soles. It’s here, it’s a certified standard which has been adopted by the entire industry.

I’m sure we can still find people who watches movies on DVD. This doesn’t mean streaming isn’t a better solution.

[jummo]

This thread is literally old man yells at clouds.

1) Grip Walk wasn’t brought about for AT boots, or cross over boots for that matter. It was brought about to make navigating parking lots, base areas and lodges easier for the majority of skiers, who often only ski once in their lifetime.

2) If you struggle to find a solution to canting grip walk boots with cant shims you probably shouldn’t be canting anyone to start with. Most of the time the only benefit to canting is the quick $200 to the boot fitter and some extra smoke and mirrors to the customer. More isn’t always better.

3) GW is objectively an improvement in user experience for 99% of skiers. Your collection of old bindings which need to be upgraded isn’t a reason to pause the whole industry moving to a more user friendly solution.

4) 5355 isn’t coming back. Grip Walk is here for the time being, and something may replace it in a decade but it won’t be your traditional 5355. Pretty much every alpine binding sold now is grip walk compatible, and most boots are coming stock with GW soles. It’s here, it’s a certified standard which has been adopted by the entire industry.

I’m sure we can still find people who watches movies on DVD. This doesn’t mean streaming isn’t a better solution.

Not disputing that Gripwalk isn't here to stay. We carry 74 models of boots this year, there are very few with replaceable toes and heels that aren't Gripwalk.

My gripe is that Gripwalk alters your stance when not in a binding. This effects fore aft balance, cuff alignment and canting evaluation and adjustment.
Swapping the soles to set up the boot and then switching them back, adds time to the process.

While it would be great if canting was $200, it isn't. At least not in my shop. We charge $40 to install a Cantology or equivalent shim from Nordica or Atomic and then cut the lugs back down.

To plane soles and install lifters ( the analog method) runs between $125 and $160 depending on the lifter.

As to the smoke and mirrors aspect, the most common reason we cant a boot sole is tibial torsion. The best Instructor or Internet authority in the world can't (inadvertent pun) talk someone out of having a twist in their leg. Canting when accurately applied is most cases is a game changer. At least in my experience.

While I have nothing against streaming movies, I do prefer to drive a car with a clutch.
So I guess I do fall somewhere on the Luddite spectrum.

jummo

[GoldenBC]

This thread is literally old man yells at clouds.

2) If you struggle to find a solution to canting grip walk boots with cant shims you probably shouldn’t be canting anyone to start with. Most of the time the only benefit to canting is the quick $200 to the boot fitter and some extra smoke and mirrors to the customer. More isn’t always better.
.

The fact that you just said canting is smoke and mirrors most of the time.... Wow.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

A sucker born every minute…


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[XavierD]

I fit boots for well over a decade. I’ve seen more people screwed up by canting than helped by it. Most of the people who get it don’t need it. Again it’s a great way to get an extra $200 out of someone. Generally I started folks away from it unless they really were fucked. And why are you selling it for less than that? If the fitter is actually good at it the customer is paying for the alignment assessment not the shim and grind labor.

Also a great thing for some idiot PSIA nerd to fret over why they can’t make the perfect dork turn. $$&Cha’Ching$$$ motherfucker.

[jummo]

I fit boots for well over a decade. I’ve seen more people screwed up by canting than helped by it. Most of the people who get it don’t need it. Again it’s a great way to get an extra $200 out of someone. Generally I started folks away from it unless they really were fucked. And why are you selling it for less than that? If the fitter is actually good at it the customer is paying for the alignment assessment not the shim and grind labor.

Also a great thing for some idiot PSIA nerd to fret over why they can’t make the perfect dork turn. $$&Cha’Ching$$$ motherfucker.

Well, it would appear we have reached something of an impasse.

Either, I have wasted most of my life believing how you stand in your ski boots is important and impacts how you ski.

Or, you did something for a comparatively short time and never got very good at it.

Regardless of which scenario you accept, I can assure you we are charging enough and it goes quite well,
thank you.

jummo