Edelweiss Chair and beyond... Alpental , The valley and the rest of snocrummy

[phatty]

I'm almost pm'd you to say to bring your chop skis when you said you were headed up for turn 2 . Pillaged was certainly the right verb to use.

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Yeah, my Billy Goats or QLabs would have been a better choice than my MFree 108s. Still, in the wise words of Slackey, skiing is fun.

[thefortrees]

skiing is fun.

Correct.

[lrn2swim]

Crazy morning up there. 3 hours, 2 runs. Was still worth it though. Pretty perfect day for the OG Protests.






Also, check out this dude from Sunday at Hyak.



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[subtle plague]

Crazy morning up there. 3 hours, 2 runs. Was still worth it though. Pretty perfect day for the OG Protests.






Also, check out this dude from Sunday at Hyak.



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So I've been lurking here for the pics...

Sorry if I intrude from my euro perspective, but 3 hours for 2 runs? With skins off and on that is about 400m /1200feet vert per run in touring....

I would have just toured? Because the two runs were probably not 4000foot tram laps?

[Norseman]

- within 1 hour of 4 million people
- the only hill in the region not requiring reservations
- huge dump of new snow
- heavy morning avy control work
- pow-starved covidians all "working from home"
- 2 chairs

[californiagrown]

So I've been lurking here for the pics...

Sorry if I intrude from my euro perspective, but 3 hours for 2 runs? With skins off and on that is about 400m /1200feet vert per run in touring....

I would have just toured? Because the two runs were probably not 4000foot tram laps?

It was likely 2200ft/lap, so 4400ft of vert in 3 hours. You also should factor in having fresh legs each time for the descent, avalanche mitigated slopes, able to ski much steeper gnarlier lines that you (I) would under similar conditions in the BC, and free/quick carcass transport to a waiting amberlance should something go wrong.

Everytime im in one of those lines having a 2 runs in 3 hours kind of day i try and just remind myself of that. Otherwise I end up in a positive feedback loop of anxiety and bitterness and that is good for no one. But, yes. Please spread the word far and wide- remind everyone you know that Alpental is a total clusterfuck on anything resembling a powder day and it should be avoided.


All that is to say, that i certainly understand, and to an extent share your perspective.

[ridinshockgun]

But, yes. Please spread the word far and wide- remind everyone you know that Alpental is a total clusterfuck [anytime they get more snow than Crystal] and it should be avoided.


.

ftfy

[AK47bp]

Alpy fucking sucks. I’m done with that place.


Who’s with me??

Guys?


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[Buke]

So I've been lurking here for the pics...

Sorry if I intrude from my euro perspective, but 3 hours for 2 runs? With skins off and on that is about 400m /1200feet vert per run in touring....

I would have just toured? Because the two runs were probably not 4000foot tram laps?

I've been guilty of standing in those kind of lines in the past but I totally agree that it makes more sense to just tour. Especially when this is what was on offer in the general vicinity.


Norseman lines out exactly the reason for the cluster though.

I'm a big fan of leaving the natural environment natural and working within the existing developed area but it sure seems like there could be some room for expanding lift served terrain considering the huge population growth and the growth of the sport in general. More high capacity chairlifts isn't going to do it though. They need a bigger footprint, not just more people trying to ski in the same spot. I wonder, given the large population, and the fact that so many more people are skiing these days, why doesn't alpental expand further out the valley? If I understand correctly, they basically own the whole valley out past source lake and a good portion of the Denny Creek Drainage too. I realize that the terrain is complicated and lots more advanced ski terrain probably isn't the best thing for their bottom line. I also realize that it would probably take 40 years of litigation with the environmentalists to work out a solution but given how much traffic that little valley gets, it's really not pristine wilderness anyway. Seems like the day hikers and snowshoers could easily find an alternative venue a few miles east of the pass and the ski area could triple their terrain options. I realize that there are probably all kinds of reasons why that's not an option but I for one am not planning on spending endless hours in line just to get a couple runs in skied out powder. Given the general cluster that we've experienced in other areas of the resort this winter I'm inclined to experiment with other resorts next winter (although I guess Stevens has similar issues, if not worse).

[phatty]

I've been guilty of standing in those kind of lines in the past but I totally agree that it makes more sense to just tour. Especially when this is what was on offer in the general vicinity.


Norseman lines out exactly the reason for the cluster though.

I'm a big fan of leaving the natural environment natural and working within the existing developed area but it sure seems like there could be some room for expanding lift served terrain considering the huge population growth and the growth of the sport in general. More high capacity chairlifts isn't going to do it though. They need a bigger footprint, not just more people trying to ski in the same spot. I wonder, given the large population, and the fact that so many more people are skiing these days, why doesn't alpental expand further out the valley? If I understand correctly, they basically own the whole valley out past source lake and a good portion of the Denny Creek Drainage too. I realize that the terrain is complicated and lots more advanced ski terrain probably isn't the best thing for their bottom line. I also realize that it would probably take 40 years of litigation with the environmentalists to work out a solution but given how much traffic that little valley gets, it's really not pristine wilderness anyway. Seems like the day hikers and snowshoers could easily find an alternative venue a few miles east of the pass and the ski area could triple their terrain options. I realize that there are probably all kinds of reasons why that's not an option but I for one am not planning on spending endless hours in line just to get a couple runs in skied out powder. Given the general cluster that we've experienced in other areas of the resort this winter I'm inclined to experiment with other resorts next winter (although I guess Stevens has similar issues, if not worse).

All of Seattle ski area have the same issues. We had an interesting thread exploring options last year. Bottom line is there's not a lot of options due to Wilderness designations and elevations.

[ridinshockgun]

I've been guilty of standing in those kind of lines in the past but I totally agree that it makes more sense to just tour. Especially when this is what was on offer in the general vicinity.


Norseman lines out exactly the reason for the cluster though.

I'm a big fan of leaving the natural environment natural and working within the existing developed area but it sure seems like there could be some room for expanding lift served terrain considering the huge population growth and the growth of the sport in general. More high capacity chairlifts isn't going to do it though. They need a bigger footprint, not just more people trying to ski in the same spot. I wonder, given the large population, and the fact that so many more people are skiing these days, why doesn't alpental expand further out the valley? If I understand correctly, they basically own the whole valley out past source lake and a good portion of the Denny Creek Drainage too. I realize that the terrain is complicated and lots more advanced ski terrain probably isn't the best thing for their bottom line. I also realize that it would probably take 40 years of litigation with the environmentalists to work out a solution but given how much traffic that little valley gets, it's really not pristine wilderness anyway. Seems like the day hikers and snowshoers could easily find an alternative venue a few miles east of the pass and the ski area could triple their terrain options. I realize that there are probably all kinds of reasons why that's not an option but I for one am not planning on spending endless hours in line just to get a couple runs in skied out powder. Given the general cluster that we've experienced in other areas of the resort this winter I'm inclined to experiment with other resorts next winter (although I guess Stevens has similar issues, if not worse).

Incorrect on "owning the valley, etc". Alpine Lakes Wilderness nearly completely surrounds the permitted area and our opinion on whether or not that is actually wilderness is mum. I posted a link a page or two back to the approved master plan to expand lifts and parking within the permitted area I'm guessing that got put on hold after a few bad snow years. But it would help having lift access to more higher elevation terrain for the future as well.

[phatty]

Incorrect on "owning the valley, etc". Alpine Lakes Wilderness nearly completely surrounds the permitted area and our opinion on whether or not that is actually wilderness is mum. I posted a link a page or two back to the approved master plan to expand lifts and parking within the permitted area I'm guessing that got put on hold after a few bad snow years. But it would help having lift access to more higher elevation terrain for the future as well.

The International lift would be awesome. Would it change some of the character of Alpental that we all love? Yes. Are those changes coming anyway due to the changing character of the Seattle area? Yep. We won't be able to keep the funky, small hill vibe forever. Yesterday put that on full display.

[subtle plague]

I understand the cause of the queue just not the reasons for joining it

[ridinshockgun]

I understand the cause of the queue just not the reasons for joining it

I also imagine some were on their 3rd or 4th day of meadow skipping and wanted to ski some steep terrain with avy mitigation with the current snowpack.

[Buke]

Incorrect on "owning the valley, etc". Alpine Lakes Wilderness nearly completely surrounds the permitted area and our opinion on whether or not that is actually wilderness is mum. I posted a link a page or two back to the approved master plan to expand lifts and parking within the permitted area I'm guessing that got put on hold after a few bad snow years. But it would help having lift access to more higher elevation terrain for the future as well.

Right, I forgot about the Alpine Lakes Wilderness boundary, although it looks like the boundary does skirt around a big chunk of the valley that we regularly ski. I lift from the base to Piss Pass and then another lift from down near Source Lake up to Piss Pass would be sweet. Maybe it would be too risky due to avalanche terrain issues? I don't know, I'm just day dreaming.

As far as ownership of the land, according to King County Records, Ski Lifts Inc does own quite a bit of land beyond the current ski area boundary and a lot of that land is within the Alpine lakes Wilderness, including over 500 acres on the west side of the ridge encompassing a big chunk of Denny Creek.

I realize that it's a total pipe dream but I do think that there's a reasonable argument for giving up some of that "wilderness" area in exchange for a better lift served ski resort experience. I wouldn't want rampant development with a tram in every valley. But in the areas where there's already lots of activity, an expansion of that activity seems reasonable considering that the region has had something like 50% population growth over the last 30 years.

[Buke]

Oops, I meant to attach this map clip.

[Toadman]

- within 1 hour of 4 million people
- the only hill in the region not requiring reservations
- huge dump of new snow
- heavy morning avy control work
- pow-starved covidians all "working from home"
- 2 chairs

Sounds like Seatown needs another ski area development. Or, at least put in a tram on at least one of the ski hills from what I'm hearing.

[ridinshockgun]

A tram from I90 to the top of Granite just for BC access would be amazing.

[AK47bp]

They should make Armstrong a double. A tram from the peak of West across i90 to the base of chair 2 would be dope. Ban snowboarding.

MAGA!!!

Make Alpy Great Again.


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[Toadman]

They should make Armstrong a double. A tram from the peak of West across i90 to the base of chair 2 would be dope. Ban snowboarding.

MAGA!!!

Make Alpy Great Again.


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Why not just have the Tram go to the top of Alpy? Avoid the chair 2 fiasco all together. Sell it as environmentally friendly way to get from Summit Central to Alpy.

[AK47bp]

Why not just have the Tram go to the top of Alpy? Avoid the chair 2 fiasco all together. Sell it as environmentally friendly way to get from Summit Central to Alpy.

Sold.

They’ll have to carve out a blue cat track to meander down Edelweiss so the Summit gapers can get out.


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[alpinevibes]

Why not just have the Tram go to the top of Alpy? Avoid the chair 2 fiasco all together. Sell it as environmentally friendly way to get from Summit Central to Alpy.

Circling back to Alternative 2 https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/ww...LT1_018134.pdf

https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/ww...LT1_018087.pdf

[Greydon Clark]

As far as ownership of the land, according to King County Records, Ski Lifts Inc does own quite a bit of land beyond the current ski area boundary and a lot of that land is within the Alpine lakes Wilderness, including over 500 acres on the west side of the ridge encompassing a big chunk of Denny Creek.

I see Ski Lifts Inc having 170 acres on rhe south side of Cave Ridge, which includes the lodge, parking lot and condos. Not ideal ski terrain, but the wilderness boundary is drawn around their property.

I don't see the Denny Creek inholdings.

[divegirl]

Jumping in here to say Vibes to Norseman...I heard about your fall and hope you feel better soon!

Also paging Abraham...let’s go paddle boarding.

Also also...y’all dudes need to meet up again and make night skiing a regular thing. Legoskier came home all happy, was stoked for 2 days on skiing with mags. In short...this wife encourages it.

PS we will be at Alpental on Sunday freezing our asses off. Anyone else?

[wooley12]

PSA

I90 WB closing 4:30 - 6:30? to remove old wrecks.