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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    The Quiver Equation (navel gazing alert?)

    So the Quiver Thread has got me thinking... for those of us with maybe 40 - 60 ski days (assuming most of TGR is Weekend Warrior status) and the fact that many of us have 10 pairs or so of skis, with lots of overlap... how do you chose?

    Obviously we all have that outlier that makes sense for the bracket - ie a groomer ski for ice or a Lotus 138 for that 4' day.

    So cutting out the outliers (spring touring sticks, megapow, GS skis, etc... that still probably leaves a large amount of overlapping skis.

    But let's thought experiment here... let's say a normal "prime ski day" - 12" new snow over a soft base, maybe a touch deeper at your home mountain. Overcast but decent visibility. Normal resort pattern, ie first couple hours are mostly untracked, then switch over to soft tracked up snow and stashes if you know where to look.

    What would you grab?

    Additional questions:
    1. Are you doing hot swaps as the conditions change? If so, how many swaps would you do in a day?
    2. What happens when you end up with a 108 underfoot ski that punches above its width?
    3. What about a ~120 underfoot ski that is surprisingly good on firm snow?
    4. I notice a lot of us have multiples in the 115 - 120mm powder ski category. Is it more than waist width? Do you have multiple shapes/design intents mixed with waist width?
    5. Are we looking at moisture content, temperature, wind speed? What makes you grab one of your overlaps over the other?
    6. Does anyone have multiple lengths of the same ski?


    For fun, list your quiver and let us know how you have segmented things, and your rationalization.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Wenatchee
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    I almost always just ski one ski. The one pair I brought to the hill.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    Ill bring more than one pair to the hill
    but I’ll likely only do a switch at lunch, if at all

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    Wasatch
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    6,057
    Two pairs to be safe. Maybe three if itís deep. Really itís because I can. Itís nice to know itís there in case I need it


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16

    2018/2019 (24/32)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    1,866

    The Quiver Equation (navel gazing alert?)

    If thereís 6Ē I ski praxis pow. If thereís less..who cares???? Frankly I donít understand saving your fattest boards for the deepest days. A fat board on a 4Ē day can make you not hit the bottom. So why the fuck not.

    If I can only take 1 pair into unknown conditions then thatís different. Iíd take billy goats or Nordica E110.
    Last edited by CaliBrit; 11-22-2020 at 08:21 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,724
    I'll grab two pairs and then assess the situation further when I get to the hill. One ski will typically be more suited to soft snow with ample rocker tip and tail and the other will be more hard snow orientated.

    For example on the 12"+ day mentioned I'd bring my ProTest's (soft snow) and my Bodacious (harder snow/chop).

    I rarely swap skis during the day but it's nice to have the option in case conditions rapidly change or I just feel like trying something different at some point during the day.

    My go to pairing for the past 3 seasons has been my Super Goats and my Pro Riders. This combo kills it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    monument
    Posts
    5,721
    I've been pondering this as well.
    And my quiver is fatter than ever, with a preponderance of fatties.

    For that 12" day terrain (above/below treeline) and visibility would be the major deciding factors.
    Big open bowls with lots of visibility: Lhasa Pow.
    Below treeline / tight trees / low vis: Kusala Pow.
    I typically travel with two or three skis so add a MX98.

    I've noticed my quiver is not only growing in numbers but is adding gradations of choices within preferred shape categories.

    Trad shapes:
    186 Stockli SS Pro
    184 Kastle MX98
    183 Kastle BMX118
    191 Volkl Katana

    Lhasa Pintail shapes:
    191 PMGear Lhasa Pow Pure (light ~1925g, stiff (3/4 Praxis scale; shovel/underfoot; almost no camber)
    191 PMGear Lhasa Pow Fat Hybrid (4/5 stiff Praxis scale)
    191 Praxis Lhasa Pow Fat Hybrid (3/4 stiff; Enduro; veneer; slightly increased tail rocker)

    Bridge shape:

    184 PMGear Bya
    Lhasa shape nose with the trad shape dimensions of a -2mm MX98 (130-96-115).
    Designed by the same French nuclear scientist (?) that interned with Splat and designed the Kusala.
    Anyway, I was kinda looking for a touring ski and they came up on gear swap undrilled and under 1800g.

    Kusala shape:

    186 PMGear Kusala Pow Pure (extra stiff with rubber; perhaps the first Pure Splat pressed; ~2100g).
    186 PMGear Kusala Pow Pure (stiff underfoot, soft shovel; ~1925g) will set up with pin binder.
    189 Praxis Kusala Pow Hybrid (5++ stiff; Enduro core; veneer)

    Fun shapes:

    202 DPS Lotus 138 Rocker 2 Flex 2 (stiff as an I-beam; ~2100g)
    189 Praxis Protest (MAA core; Bubinga veneer; ghost of Aevergreene)

    Still need to try out a few of these skis, but the journey is fun.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    628
    Quote Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier View Post
    So the Quiver Thread has got me thinking... for those of us with maybe 40 - 60 ski days (assuming most of TGR is Weekend Warrior status) and the fact that many of us have 10 pairs or so of skis, with lots of overlap... how do you chose?

    Obviously we all have that outlier that makes sense for the bracket - ie a groomer ski for ice or a Lotus 138 for that 4' day.

    So cutting out the outliers (spring touring sticks, megapow, GS skis, etc... that still probably leaves a large amount of overlapping skis.

    But let's thought experiment here... let's say a normal "prime ski day" - 12" new snow over a soft base, maybe a touch deeper at your home mountain. Overcast but decent visibility. Normal resort pattern, ie first couple hours are mostly untracked, then switch over to soft tracked up snow and stashes if you know where to look.

    What would you grab?

    Additional questions:
    1. Are you doing hot swaps as the conditions change? If so, how many swaps would you do in a day?
    2. What happens when you end up with a 108 underfoot ski that punches above its width?
    3. What about a ~120 underfoot ski that is surprisingly good on firm snow?
    4. I notice a lot of us have multiples in the 115 - 120mm powder ski category. Is it more than waist width? Do you have multiple shapes/design intents mixed with waist width?
    5. Are we looking at moisture content, temperature, wind speed? What makes you grab one of your overlaps over the other?
    6. Does anyone have multiple lengths of the same ski?


    For fun, list your quiver and let us know how you have segmented things, and your rationalization.
    Posted in the quiver-thread the other day. 11 skis, 2 dedicated touring, 2 with CAST but inbounds focused, the rest alpine. From 82 to 124, but as you mention; 5 skis from 114-124.

    The biggest driver in the decision (except from snow conditions) is which resort / where in the resort I'm skiing. Most of the time I must drive 1,5 to 4,5 hours, if not skiing groomers or a chance dump happens at my local hill. In almost all resorts the terrain differs so much that it to a degree varants different skis for the same conditions. In addition weather is a thing. The treeline in sharply defined here, so when it's storming you'll "have to" stay below treeline, but suddenly it clears and you want to ski open terrain. The resorts are also pretty small by international standards, so switching out skis isn't a 30-40min logistical nightmare.

    Considerations are: more / less steep trees vs open terrain. More / less chance of crud. More / less chance of a need for hiking / short skins. Etc

    1. Absolutely. For example from steep trees (BGs) to grooomer (Brahma) when the trees are skied out / leg are toast.
    2. The one I have (108 wren) is a bit to cumbersome in a lot of the terrain I ski. Previous efforts to find 108-quiver-killer has all been in vain. Except for a 110? Rossi Ravyn 7-8 years ago. Those were fantastic.
    3. Never found. Maybe the Rustler 11 will change that?
    4/5. See explanation over. Depending on terrain and weather, as much as the snow itself.
    6. 2x EHPs, but that is mostly by chance. That being said, I don't bring the 193s into steep bumps. The 186 go everywhere. I could see owning a 186 (184 maybe) BG for short tours, and a 189 for inbounds,

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    48
    This question is a big part of why I tend to not have more than 2 pairs of skis are the same time.

    1 do it all wider all mountain ski, and a narrower firm conditions ski.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
    Posts
    4,378
    I live in CO and ski around a pretty set work schedule--so a 12" day is beyond rare, a few times a season. When it happens, always Protests. After lunch I may consider the Bibby.

    On a more regular CO day -- 4-6" of fresh on a soft base, depends on an equation of the terrain available, who I'm skiing with, and how tired my legs are. 3 out of 5 of those days I'll just grab a Deathwish and not think about it. The other two most likely on the Bibby unless I'm skiing lots of trees and then Lhasa Pows.

    Wondering how the waiting-to-be-mounted Corvus will fit in.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Where the diamonds turn to coal
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    6,995
    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    I almost always just ski one ski. The one pair I brought to the hill.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    This, emphatically. It's the archer, not the arrow. JFC.

    Run what you brung and STFU.
    I remember a bottomless freedom...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    13,785
    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    I live in CO and ski around a pretty set work schedule--so a 12" day is beyond rare, a few times a season. When it happens, always Protests. After lunch I may consider the Bibby.

    On a more regular CO day -- 4-6" of fresh on a soft base, depends on an equation of the terrain available, who I'm skiing with, and how tired my legs are. 3 out of 5 of those days I'll just grab a Deathwish and not think about it. The other two most likely on the Bibby unless I'm skiing lots of trees and then Lhasa Pows.

    Wondering how the waiting-to-be-mounted Corvus will fit in.
    I ski my deathwish's every day. If I want to mach looney with some fresh, I'll grab my lhasa's. Haven't skied my maven's in 2 years, just not enough snow to beat my knees up for.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,936
    That's what I love about the Boneshaker. Can ski it on a storm day. Then keep skiing it as the snow gets skied up. Then keep skiing them as shit hardens up.
    Nothing like a PB or a Maven type ski in fresh though. Slush and mank too, for that matter! Actually, I found out by accident that PB's do surprisingly well in breakable crust(still not fun, just easier to manage)

  14. #14
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    Sep 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier View Post

    What would you grab?
    My nuts and my Lotus 120s.

    Additional questions:
    1. Are you doing hot swaps as the conditions change? If so, how many swaps would you do in a day?
    1. Not on 12" days; it's the lotus 120s all day.
    2. What happens when you end up with a 108 underfoot ski that punches above its width?
    I only bring a narrower ski when it's firm.
  15. What about a ~120 underfoot ski that is surprisingly good on firm snow?
dingdingding

  • I notice a lot of us have multiples in the 115 - 120mm powder ski category. Is it more than waist width? Do you have multiple shapes/design intents mixed with waist width?
  • I'll ski the Downs some days, slightly narrower (116 mm I think waist), I don't have it figured out yet, it skis stiffer.
  • Are we looking at moisture content, temperature, wind speed? What makes you grab one of your overlaps over the other?
  • No.
  • Does anyone have multiple lengths of the same ski?
    My son has a pair of 190s, but I never ski them.

  • For fun, list your quiver and let us know how you have segmented things, and your rationalization.
    200 cm DPS Lotus 120 is the DD, only ditched on firm days.
    190 Volkl Buddha Explosiv for firmer days.
    196 Down Countdown for firmer days to ski fast.
    210 Dynamic VR27 Super G skis for longboard day.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  • #15
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    Sep 2001
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    Something broke.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  • #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    idaho panhandle!
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    8,069
    What would you grab? :
    192 Protest.

    1: my hill is a pain for swap outs, long ass gondola to the top so I rarely bring two.
    2: not sure but I think I added that ski this year so we will see.
    3: thatís the 191 Lhasa Fat. It comes out when I want a different pow ride or when the wind is depositing snow in stashes and the rest of the hill is firm or soft chop. Fuck they kill those conditions.
    4: absolutely a shape dealio.
    5: I am. High density snow, upside down snow, light crust Protest no question about it. Again, wind deposited conditions with firm snow areas to get there and firm chopped groomers to get back, Lhasa Fat.
    6: 192 4flex Protest and 188 stock flex Protest. Both have their time and place, early season conditions when speed are in check due to hidden hazards and the potential for base contact on rocks/ wood, 188ís. Once things get covered and itís game on hair on fire type pow skiing, 192ís all damn day.

  • #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    LV-426
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    I am still seeking that one ski - the "travel ski" - that's got edge hold like a GS ski for the firm groomer days, but can also be just floaty enough to be fun in shallow pow (say, 6" storm falls while on a trip), and also handle the cut up crud resulting from the shallow storm. Thinking this should be around 185-190cm, 100-105mm waist, tip rocker, some camber, directional. Not a fan of forward mount point skis.

    At home I'd just pick a ski for likely conditions. Traveling, I don't want to haul more than two pairs.

    Closest things I've got are a 187 Blizzard Titan Argos for the do it all ski (105 waist), but it's very heavy, minimal tip rocker, flat camber, so it's kind of dead on hard pack and some work to ski. Also a 192 DPS RPC 115 hybrid, which is a great pow + post pow crud ski (good pick for bringing on trip expecting pow days), yet surprisingly good on hard pack. It's a bit too wide for all day groomer skiing - torques my knees around too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  • #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    panhandle locdog
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    6,935
    I'm liking the ski family quivers.

    Me, I have tried to segment by design intent/skiing style.

    Modern/Loose:
    (This spot is reserved for a 98mm ski that I haven't connected with yet)
    Mfree 108
    Mfree118 (Billygoat for several years)
    202 Lotus 138 Flex 2 Rocker 3.2

    Traditional/Locked:
    Speedzone 12
    Mpro99
    Pro Rider 105
    Bodacious

    Problem for me (and the reason for starting this thread) is that I could grab any of those skis (except the speedzone) and have a good time.

    I personally don't like to swap skis during the day, as it throws off my groove. But I'll do it if I misjudged conditions.

    The traditional skis tend to get grabbed when the visibility is good and the snow is more set up. Open terrain.

    Loose skis are what I grab when visibility is poor and terrain is tight.

    10x underfoot is the linchpin of my quiver. It's always been there: Sir Francis Bacon > Movement Goliath > Movement Trust > Fischer Watea 106 > Cham 107 > Pro Rider > Cham 107 2.0 > Legend x106 > Cham 107 hm > Mfree108

    I find this width to be quite versatile and if skied in Europe it'd probably all I'd mess with having since my (limited) experience with skiing there is that skiing is much more about travel then the turns themselves.

    Here in America it's all about the turns and maximizing vertical consumption, which is where I feel optimization by turn shape and conditions is way more important.

  • #19
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    Mar 2009
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    1,936
    Buster-wanna replace those LBD sticks w/ some Dynamic VR27 220 DH boards?

  • #20
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    Sep 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Buster-wanna replace those LBD sticks w/ some Dynamic VR27 220 DH boards?
    I'd love the 220s, but I'm hanging onto the super gees.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  • #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    336
    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    I am still seeking that one ski - the "travel ski" - that's got edge hold like a GS ski for the firm groomer days, but can also be just floaty enough to be fun in shallow pow (say, 6" storm falls while on a trip), and also handle the cut up crud resulting from the shallow storm. Thinking this should be around 185-190cm, 100-105mm waist, tip rocker, some camber, directional. Not a fan of forward mount point skis.

    At home I'd just pick a ski for likely conditions. Traveling, I don't want to haul more than two pairs.

    Closest things I've got are a 187 Blizzard Titan Argos for the do it all ski (105 waist), but it's very heavy, minimal tip rocker, flat camber, so it's kind of dead on hard pack and some work to ski. Also a 192 DPS RPC 115 hybrid, which is a great pow + post pow crud ski (good pick for bringing on trip expecting pow days), yet surprisingly good on hard pack. It's a bit too wide for all day groomer skiing - torques my knees around too much.
    Have you tried an MX98?

  • #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    LV-426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
    Have you tried an MX98?
    I haven't skied any Kaestles.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  • #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    1,936
    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    I'd love the 220s, but I'm hanging onto the super gees.
    They actually belong to my brother, but I guarantee he'll never use them again. Mounted w/ ESS VAR 1018's, which are better suited to surf the landfill than snow......

  • #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    181
    Quiver., live in CO...
    (no groomer ski)
    k2 mindbender 108 (mounted with Shifts to also be travel ski)
    4frnt ehp's - 186 and 193 (old, but still use alot)
    line super natural 115 (picked up cheap, jury still out)
    BC skis...
    4frnt raven (winter bc)
    blizzard zero g 85 (spring/summer bc)
    Are you doing hot swaps as the conditions change? If so, how many swaps would you do in a day? No, other than having a back up pair in case ski/binding blows up
    What happens when you end up with a 108 underfoot ski that punches above its width? I'm hoping new mindbender 108 are this
    What about a ~120 underfoot ski that is surprisingly good on firm snow? My old EHPs are kind of this... surprisingly good in all but really hard groomers
    I notice a lot of us have multiples in the 115 - 120mm powder ski category. Is it more than waist width? Do you have multiple shapes/design intents mixed with waist width? I've got old EHP (116 width) and Super Natural 115
    Are we looking at moisture content, temperature, wind speed? What makes you grab one of your overlaps over the other? Just snow report
    Does anyone have multiple lengths of the same ski? Yes, 186 and 193 EHP, but longer one not mounted up

  • #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
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    3,765
    I pretty much always pack my 188 Rustler 11's. If more than 6" of fresh is probable, I'll throw in my pow ski (currently the Season Eqpt Forma). If there's 2-4" of new snow I will throw in my "all mountain" ski, currently a Bonafide 97. If it hasn't snowed in a week or so, I might throw in my FIS GS skis. I may never stop to switch skis but if I do it is usually only once a day - not hard from Alpental Lot 4, pain in the ass parked 2/3 of the way back in B Lot at Crystal. Touring, I look at the telemetry and just pick a width from 105, 95, or 85.

    Edit: I had the Rustler 11 in both 188 and 180 last year, with Shifts on the 180 as a travel ski, but not this year - 180 feels too short for most of what I do, and the rig was too heavy for my touring tastes.
    Last edited by gregL; 11-22-2020 at 11:40 AM.

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